It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well.
Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers
should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server
a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once found to be open it is
incredibly
Bryan Stevenson wrote:
It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well.
Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers
should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the server
a chance to fix it first??
I would also very much like a
You're comparing what an organization like ORDB does to a virusgee I
guess your are coming around to my view ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
be nice.. sure would cut down on all that spare traffic
absorbed by admins who haven't patched or won't in months. Now that would be
useful :)
-paris
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:37
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM
PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well.
Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers
should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks
, December 06, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Bryan Stevenson wrote:
It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well.
Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers
should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the
server
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
It's the fact that the legit folks get nailed as well.
Listen..we all agree that spam is evil...we all agree that mail servers
should not be open.BUT is it so bad to give the folks running the
server
a chance to fix it first?? My issue is that once
And shutting people down with no warning is also inexusable
People running open relays are lazy or incompetent, so sending them a
warning, even automated (no labor) won't energize them or power up their
skills.
In 2001, every mail admin has used up his virtual three strikes. No
excuse, no
I'll agree that a blackhole list for web servers is a great idea.
Definitely a far greater risk and traffic waste than open relays.
You can only say that since you haven't been the victim of a mutli-week,
high-source-bandwidth DoS and other malicious attacks mounted through
1000's and 1000's
True - I wasn't thinking of malicious attacks, I was thinking of SPAM.
- Original Message -
From: Len Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I'll agree that a blackhole list for web servers
Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got
blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in
either category? The mail server I was running had no documentation about
the possible abuse of or even the existence of open relays. I'm the first
to
PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got
blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in
either category? The mail server I
in mail servers?
Just because someone stumps you at Jeopardy on one question doesn't make you
stupid or them gifted :)
-paris
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 13:17
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Well Len
Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still
remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
No disrespect intended, but I would say that you should have been aware of
the potential issues.
Lazy and incompetent are strong terms. Perhaps
You got it Paris..nobody's perfecteven us lazy incompetent folks need
help sometimes ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Get the mailserver that
Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got
blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that
put me in either category? The mail server I was running had no
documentation about the possible abuse of or even the existence
of open relays. I'm the first to
Well Len thanks for calling me lazy and incompetent. Until I got
blacklisted I did not know about open relays. So how does that put me in
either category?
If you run a public mail server, don't know what open relays are, nor how
to close your own, that's incompetence.
The mail server I was
Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still
remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM
They do much more good than harm, ime. collateral damage isn't fun for the
damaged, but it's recoverable. These people are doing voluntary work.
,
competitors and such in there too :)
-paris
-Original Message-
From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 13:57
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact still
remains that groups like ORDB
-
From: Len Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Yup..I'll take the hit...I should have done more research. The fact
still
remains that groups like ORDB are going too far in their approach to SPAM
They do
h..voluntarily breaking the law you meanthe predecessor to ORDB was
ORBS (from Aussie Land) and they got shut down after having two successful
legal injunction brought against them.
Anyhoo...I'm sure we've beaten this subject to death and nothing is going to
change until someone with
Ditto
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
FAQ:
Exactly my point
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
FAQ:
It is so funny to see this discussion keep cropping up. The whole
blacklisting of open relays is a very touchy issue. I agree that there is
little excuse for running an open relay in today's world (though some argue
that it is their right... I think this was an issue in MIT vs. MAPS). I
will
Stacks up to the competition:
http://www.coolfusion.com/imssecomparison.cfm
- Original Message -
From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Hey All,
cf_rant
I just had an mazingly
To go back to your gun analogy,
we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the
likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked
and
loaded gun anywhere I choose.
open relay MX's lying around will be picked up by spammers and used as
weapons.
to the local
unemployment office. If you can't configure it properly, don't run it.
- Original Message -
From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
To go back to your gun analogy,
we
Geesh...glad I don't work for you ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
FAQ:
Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed
system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest
the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses, subjects, etc. of
spam to be blocked.
At 03:15 PM 12/4/01, you wrote:
I was looking at
Yeah, I saw the thing on Slashdot too - I'll probably investigate that.
- Original Message -
From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I
:20 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed
system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going
to suggest
the same thing for iMS users to catalog email addresses,
subjects, etc. of
spam to be blocked
iMS does have direct support for ORBs-type blackhole lists...
Regards,
Howie
- Original Message -
From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Other than black hole lists, I don't know
I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there
any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer?
We run an SMTP anti-abuse gateway, and subcribe it to selected RBL servers,
do DNS validations, enforce SMTP protocol compliance, regex filters on
headers,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Other than black hole lists, I don't know of any. I read of a distributed
system being worked up on slashdot a few days back. I was going to suggest
the same thing for iMS
PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
I was looking at automating my server-side SPAM filtering. Are there
any resources for pulling known SPAM addresses? Free, as in beer?
We run an SMTP anti-abuse gateway, and subcribe
Hey All,
cf_rant
I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole
database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours
by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays
(allow spammers to send using that mail server), but their
, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Hey All,
cf_rant
I just had an mazingly frustrating experiences with one of the blackhole
database maintainers (ordb.org). These folks think they are doing favours
by helping ISP's to block mail server IPs that are running open relays
(allow
for debugging purposes never nice dealing
with them...
It is like dealing with the Borg...
Well two of us.. who else hates this piece of net trash?
-paris
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 15:48
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT
in
their implementation.
- Original Message -
From: Troy Montour [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
Bryan,
I know your feeling they did it to me while I was first setting up my
server for my domain
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your
responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into
the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red)
However, I will agree that some
: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:40 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
My opinion would be that if you are running a mail server, it is your
responsibility to be aware of and control how it relays. (IMO, falls into
the same bucket as setting up IIS and being aware of things like Code Red
Go Paris! I think we see eye-to-eye ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide
Ahh yes...blacklisting is fine BUT
They should give you a few days grace to fix the issue before they do it. A
little more spam won't hurt anyone and the grace period means that the valid
users of the mail server don't have their service interuppted as a result of
the blacklisting
The only thing worse than spam is that nazi-like ORBZ.
tom
Paris Lundis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
yeah we have had problems with ORBS... weirdly it called one of our
servers
open somehow because we customarily bounce bad mail back or have
yup..but they are gone apparently..the lawyer got 'em
Now can I hear a big w what a shame ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
Get
amen.
-Original Message-
From: tom muck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 18:20
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: OT: SPAM lists?
The only thing worse than spam is that nazi-like ORBZ.
tom
Paris Lundis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
To go back to your gun analogy,
we are restricted in possession and use of guns in order to reduce the
likelihood of homicides. Otherwise, I should be able to carry a locked and
loaded gun anywhere I choose.
open relay MX's lying around will be picked up by spammers and used as
weapons.
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