Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-12-12 Thread Duveyoung
A New Physics Theory of Life | Quanta Magazine https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/ A New Physics Theory of Life | Quanta Magazine https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-06 Thread LEnglish5
You should read up on Boltzmann's Brains. It is an extreme example of how an infinite (not just our 18 billion lightyear wide local bubble) could give rise spontaneously [randomly] to brains in space that have memories of a universe "just like ours" and think that they're IN such a universe for

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-06 Thread Duveyoung
Again, I offer this ACTUAL SCIENCE as an approach to discovering the genesis of orderliness. It does not seem to be true that randomness and entropy are the Sword of Damocles they are made out to be. It seems the core dynamic of creation is DIRECTLY OPPOSITE of that -- it seems that there's

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
Richard, I wonder if the whole hierarchical thing happened because homeo sapiens stood up on two legs! Then the tendency to think of development as being ONLY a vertical process took over. I now tend to think of human development as a multi directional process, thinking of the brain as maybe ha

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 5/4/2014 6:22 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! For *me*, Share. I didn't try to sell it to you. > It's kind of difficult to write computer code without using a hierarchy. Go figure. The first codin

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
Curtis, for me there is already a sense that human choice is an illusion: in the sense that life force, or whatever one might call it, is driving everything, even our neural firings! Probably even that nano second I mentioned before, when a smoker decides to go for a walk rather than light a cig

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread curtisdeltablues
Glad you had a great trip to the big A ! This is very interesting and I think you have put your finger on the most important issue that makes this topic fascinating to me. I hope there is this kind of choice point and am open to the idea that there might be techniques (perhaps meditation) that

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
Jedi, but why are we here to understand? Is it not at least to survive? Survive so that we can develop fully which is what I think we're here to do. Whatever the heck that will mean!   All this discussion brings to my mind one of my favorite Maharishi ideas: save the psychology. Which I think

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 5/4/2014 1:39 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Possibly, possibly not. I have to admit that it was a really great day, and that getting to know this lady was the most fun I've had in a long time. You know that thing where two people just make each other laugh...that happened, so no complaints from my

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : To demean points of view he disagrees with is high on Barry's list of personal values. Er, I mean, preferences... Compulsions. Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of h

[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread jedi_spock
> > > > My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into > > > > us for survival value. > > > I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in > > > hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite > > > your attempt at what you

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread authfriend
To demean points of view he disagrees with is high on Barry's list of personal values. Er, I mean, preferences... Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread steve.sundur
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread authfriend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread turquoiseb
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread authfriend
Comments below... Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. Nonsense. People do this all the time, continue behaviors that they consciously *know* are detrimental to them. Their position within an

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread steve.sundur
to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They're just

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
x27;t have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. The

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: Share Long To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis   turq, I think most humans have a hierarchy, if only in that they have preferred states. Your preferred state  is t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
Curtis, just to add the ideas of a Buddhist, Tara Goleman-Bennett in whose book I first encountered the notion that the brain's neural pathways are like ruts in a dirt road. The more we go down a specific direction, the deeper that rut becomes so that we're even more likely to take that directio

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread Share Long
to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread TurquoiseBee
anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-04 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 5:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis   Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-03 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 5:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis   Have  a great time in Amsterdam where your free choices will be challenged by a cornucopia of deligh

[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-03 Thread anartaxius
Based on ideas that began with the work of mathematicians Benoit Mandelbrot and John Conway, the physicist Stephen Wolfram has some interesting ideas on the nature of free will. Wolfram has been investigating simple computational systems that have very simple starting conditions and very simple

[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-03 Thread curtisdeltablues
Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living room looks like a training camp for Cirque! Plus I have had to spend some time in assisted living facilities for personal and professional reasons lately so this is an up topic for me. I a

[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-03 Thread curtisdeltablues
Judy at her best, all great distinctions. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Actually, this distinction is pretty elementary with regard to neuroscientific studies; it really isn't something that has just never occurred to the researchers. Libet's studies, for example, looked dir

[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

2014-05-03 Thread authfriend
Actually, this distinction is pretty elementary with regard to neuroscientific studies; it really isn't something that has just never occurred to the researchers. Libet's studies, for example, looked directly at the apparent time lag between decisions made on the unconscious level and when they