Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But i noticed by using the current CVS version, that the engines where off after pressing the reset button in the fg menu. Yes, reset and save/restore are a bit broken in FlightGear right now. I'll try to fix them when I have a chance, but it will require a bit of refactoring (removing Curt's initial-state stuff, for example). All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
David Megginson writes: Yes, reset and save/restore are a bit broken in FlightGear right now. I'll try to fix them when I have a chance, but it will require a bit of refactoring (removing Curt's initial-state stuff, for example). I definitely need the functionality to set up various initial positions; in the air, on the ground, relative to different objects, different headings, initial velocity, etc. etc. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Curtis L. Olson writes: David Megginson writes: Yes, reset and save/restore are a bit broken in FlightGear right now. I'll try to fix them when I have a chance, but it will require a bit of refactoring (removing Curt's initial-state stuff, for example). I definitely need the functionality to set up various initial positions; in the air, on the ground, relative to different objects, different headings, initial velocity, etc. etc. I don't see any conflict in goals here, after all sitting at the end of the runway, headed in the right direction with engines idlling is just a 'specific' instance of Curt's more general requirements, which I would think would include being 'resettable' without having to restart the SIM :-) Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Norman Vine writes: Curtis L. Olson writes: David Megginson writes: Yes, reset and save/restore are a bit broken in FlightGear right now. I'll try to fix them when I have a chance, but it will require a bit of refactoring (removing Curt's initial-state stuff, for example). I definitely need the functionality to set up various initial positions; in the air, on the ground, relative to different objects, different headings, initial velocity, etc. etc. I don't see any conflict in goals here, after all sitting at the end of the runway, headed in the right direction with engines idlling is just a 'specific' instance of Curt's more general requirements, which I would think would include being 'resettable' without having to restart the SIM :-) I believe these things are resetable without restarting the sim. We don't have a very high level interface for it at the moment, but it is doable. The only thing we can't change with restarting the sim right now is the aircraft. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Curtis L. Olson wrote: I definitely need the functionality to set up various initial positions; in the air, on the ground, relative to different objects, different headings, initial velocity, etc. etc. We can accomplish the same thing simply by saving a copy of part or all of the property tree and then reverting to it, without creating a separate, parallel hierarchy of properties for initial conditions. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Curtis L. Olson wrote: We can accomplish the same thing simply by saving a copy of part or all of the property tree and then reverting to it, without creating a separate, parallel hierarchy of properties for initial conditions. In this scheme, how would you specify initial conditions? You'd still need some way to do that? Write the initial conditions directly into the main property tree. We would need to hold onto a few properties to say which setting to use (say, for location), but this system in general should work much better, since cannot predict what properties any given vehicle might need to preserve on a reset. Essentially, a reset is nothing more than an in-memory save/restore. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
David Megginson writes: Curtis L. Olson wrote: We can accomplish the same thing simply by saving a copy of part or all of the property tree and then reverting to it, without creating a separate, parallel hierarchy of properties for initial conditions. In this scheme, how would you specify initial conditions? You'd still need some way to do that? Write the initial conditions directly into the main property tree. I'm trying to understand exactly what you are describing/proposing, so forgive me if I'm asking stupid questions. If the sim is running, wouldn't you be competing with the FDM? Wouldn't it be cleaner to keep a separate area for initial conditions so you can specify them at your leisure, and then commit when you are ready? Otherwise if we are writing into the main property tree, it seems like we would have to halt the FDM first. We would need to hold onto a few properties to say which setting to use (say, for location), but this system in general should work much better, since cannot predict what properties any given vehicle might need to preserve on a reset. Essentially, a reset is nothing more than an in-memory save/restore. Sure, I agree with your description of the specific case of a reset. But we also need to consider starting up at new places with new initial conditions, initiating a ground or air trim, etc. etc. It seems to me that we would be abusing the save/restore analogy in that case. Personally, I'm not sure how hard I want to work on a perfect reset function. Do you also restore time of day, weather conditions, clouds, control surface positions, switch positions, radio frequencies, AI traffic, etc. etc.? Where do you draw the line? There is a very high likelihood that there will be times that people will want to reset position, but not time and weather and other various things. But, I'm not sure we want to grow this into the worlds most complex reset system either. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Sure, I agree with your description of the specific case of a reset. But we also need to consider starting up at new places with new initial conditions, initiating a ground or air trim, etc. etc. It seems to me that we would be abusing the save/restore analogy in that case. Personally, I'm not sure how hard I want to work on a perfect reset function. Do you also restore time of day, weather conditions, clouds, control surface positions, switch positions, radio frequencies, AI traffic, etc. etc.? Where do you draw the line? There is a very high likelihood that there will be times that people will want to reset position, but not time and weather and other various things. But, I'm not sure we want to grow this into the worlds most complex reset system either. I would like to be able to switch the aircraft during a flight without respawning at the airfield. I know this is very unrealistic in real life but it's just a good user friendly feature in a flight simulator. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Curtis L. Olson wrote: If the sim is running, wouldn't you be competing with the FDM? Wouldn't it be cleaner to keep a separate area for initial conditions so you can specify them at your leisure, and then commit when you are ready? Otherwise if we are writing into the main property tree, it seems like we would have to halt the FDM first. I think that we can do that more cleanly by allowing operation on a second property tree. Here's what I'm suggesting: 1. Set up the initial property tree (from preferences, the command line, etc.) before running any cycles. 2. Make a deep copy of that tree that can be restored. Personally, I'm not sure how hard I want to work on a perfect reset function. Do you also restore time of day, weather conditions, clouds, control surface positions, switch positions, radio frequencies, AI traffic, etc. etc.? With a reset, yes: you should end up with exactly what you started with. Where do you draw the line? There is a very high likelihood that there will be times that people will want to reset position, but not time and weather and other various things. We can provide commands for partial copies from the backup tree -- in that case, it is simply a matter of a few bytes of XML glue (menu, keyboard, etc.) for each kind of reset. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Curtis L. Olson wrote: If the sim is running, wouldn't you be competing with the FDM? Wouldn't it be cleaner to keep a separate area for initial conditions so you can specify them at your leisure, and then commit when you are ready? Otherwise if we are writing into the main property tree, it seems like we would have to halt the FDM first. I think that we can do that more cleanly by allowing operation on a second property tree. Here's what I'm suggesting: 1. Set up the initial property tree (from preferences, the command line, etc.) before running any cycles. 2. Make a deep copy of that tree that can be restored. How about to disk? What I'm leading up to is suggesting something like ./fgfs --restore which would automatically startup with the latest saved configuration. This is consistant with prefered gui application behavior that automatically returns to the previous state on subsequent accesses. Both MSFS and FlyII basically do the equivelant of a deep copy to disk and then automatically restore those settings on subsequent runs of the program. Any configuration settings that are changed during execution are added to the on disk copy. Personally, I'm not sure how hard I want to work on a perfect reset function. Do you also restore time of day, weather conditions, clouds, control surface positions, switch positions, radio frequencies, AI traffic, etc. etc.? With a reset, yes: you should end up with exactly what you started with. Where do you draw the line? There is a very high likelihood that there will be times that people will want to reset position, but not time and weather and other various things. We can provide commands for partial copies from the backup tree -- in that case, it is simply a matter of a few bytes of XML glue (menu, keyboard, etc.) for each kind of reset. Work has overtaken my spare time temporarily, but I've been recently thinking about trying to make FDM switcheroos work. What you've been describing here would probably help toward that. FWIW I'm not that crazy about switching aircraft mid flight, but I suppose it could be done easily enough. Anyone for a piper cub going 270kias @ 4ft? Or how about the 1903 flyer? :-) Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
David Megginson writes: Jim Wilson wrote: FWIW I'm not that crazy about switching aircraft mid flight, but I suppose it could be done easily enough. Anyone for a piper cub going 270kias @ 4ft? That sounds great. Can you animate the fabric tearing off the wings? Sounds like a perfect use of plib's partical rendering system. Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jim Wilson wrote: FWIW I'm not that crazy about switching aircraft mid flight, but I suppose it could be done easily enough. Anyone for a piper cub going 270kias @ 4ft? That sounds great. Can you animate the fabric tearing off the wings? Yeah, I think so. What would the sequence and timing be of the events involved: a) fabric tearing off, b) pilot blacking out, c) aircraft breaking into a few dozen or gazillion pieces, d) F16s scrambled to investigate? Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Am Sonntag, 23. November 2003 13:41 schrieb Melchior FRANZ:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sunday 23 November 2003 05:26:
Hello, I allways wanted to fly the helicopter but i don't know how to
start the engines. I pressed every key kombination but still no luck.
The engine *is* on in the bo105 after startup! It can be turned
off and on again like all other planes' engines. '}' increases
magneto switch position (- engine on), while '{' decreases.
m.
Ok, thank you now it works. :)
Because of my german keyboard layout i needed to press the ALT+0 key
to get the } key pressed, that was a little irritating for me, because
i looked for the corresponding german key by the key location and not by the
key character, but that didn't work of course.
FYI the key location for the } key button is the * button on a german
keyboard, but the key character for the } character is available by
pressing the ALT+0 keys.
It would be great to have some kind
of ingame keyboard setting manager for Flightgear.
Is someone working on that?
Best Regards,
Oliver C.
BTW: I never needed the engine keys for the other planes before, so this
was my first time. ;)
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because of my german keyboard layout i needed to press the ALT+0 key to get the } key pressed, that was a little irritating for me, because i looked for the corresponding german key by the key location and not by the key character, but that didn't work of course. FYI the key location for the } key button is the * button on a german keyboard, but the key character for the } character is available by pressing the ALT+0 keys. I'm concerned that you had to press *any* key. If you are using the current CVS, the helicopter should already be running when FlightGear starts. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Helicopters: wow!
Am Montag, 24. November 2003 04:13 schrieb David Megginson: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because of my german keyboard layout i needed to press the ALT+0 key to get the } key pressed, that was a little irritating for me, because i looked for the corresponding german key by the key location and not by the key character, but that didn't work of course. FYI the key location for the } key button is the * button on a german keyboard, but the key character for the } character is available by pressing the ALT+0 keys. I'm concerned that you had to press *any* key. If you are using the current CVS, the helicopter should already be running when FlightGear starts. Yes, that's what it did, i forget to mention in my last e-mail that i had to upgrade my flightgear directory to the current FG CVS version. So sorry that was my fault. But i noticed by using the current CVS version, that the engines where off after pressing the reset button in the fg menu. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
