Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer preview
Hi, On Thursday, January 31, 2013 17:13:46 James Turner wrote: I've just pushed some model-loader tweaks, to support the same 'no preview' tags which FGRun supports, for viewing models. Currently only 'fgfs --fgviewer' mode sets the requisite flag, 'fgviewer' probably should but I need to check with Mathias what's a suitable way to control it, since I guess always-on may not be desired. You can currently set arbitrary osg loader options by -O 'string option'. Greetings Mathias -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Hi Tim, Tim Moore wrote: I also think it's a good idea to factor out the dependencies that the visual part of flightgear has on the whole flightgear implementation. It's not right at the head of my queue, but I support the idea and will look for ways to move it along. As far as I understood Mathias, a too large fraction of the time he spent for the OSG port was required simply to detangle a pile of quite obscure interdependencies between the former viewer code and the so-called FlightGear core. Do I sense the project heading down the same road as before now that a new example has been put into place ? Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Tim Moore wrote: Ron Jensen wrote: On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 22:28 +, Martin Spott wrote: Tim Moore wrote: Ron Jensen wrote: For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? This is the fault of the new effects code. Effects rely on the FlightGear property tree and on some custom OSG handling. I started pulling what was needed into fgviewer. You've probably misunderstood 'fgviewer'. As far as I can tell, one of the ideas behind this nice tool had been to create a lightweight viewer component _without_ pulling in tons of inter-dependencies which are so omnipresent in FlightGear. I understand fgviewer well enough to know that it was buggy even without the effects code: various bits were subtly different from how things are done in fgfs. As far as lightweight goes, Ron has actually run the tool before giving his opinion. If you're worried about memory usage, well, I'm sure you've heard of demand paging, copy on write, and all that. I'm pretty familiar with these topics, but memory usage is not the point here (well, it probably is, but from the current perspective I didn't care much). And when I was using the term lightweight I didn't mean startup or load times either. I understand the idea behind the 'fgviewer' tool as creating a distinct viewer component (yet still in the early stage of development) which, while still remaining compilant with the FlightGear environment, is trying to adopt as little dependencies from FlightGear as possible and therefore does not necessarily has to follow every rule of how things are done in fgfs in order to achieve its fine goal. Actually I'm convinced that carefully cutting some of the old ties (some call them cruft), for example by keeping the viewer part as independent from the FlightGear core as possible, might serve as a good platform for future development. It's obvious that FlightGear, as every visual simulation, has to depend on the viewer. But the opposite way of depending the viewer part heavily on core FlightGear components is certainly not going into the outlined direction. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Hi, On Tuesday 11 August 2009 12:08:05 Martin Spott wrote: I'm pretty familiar with these topics, but memory usage is not the point here (well, it probably is, but from the current perspective I didn't care much). And when I was using the term lightweight I didn't mean startup or load times either. I understand the idea behind the 'fgviewer' tool as creating a distinct viewer component (yet still in the early stage of development) which, while still remaining compilant with the FlightGear environment, is trying to adopt as little dependencies from FlightGear as possible and therefore does not necessarily has to follow every rule of how things are done in fgfs in order to achieve its fine goal. Actually I'm convinced that carefully cutting some of the old ties (some call them cruft), for example by keeping the viewer part as independent from the FlightGear core as possible, might serve as a good platform for future development. It's obvious that FlightGear, as every visual simulation, has to depend on the viewer. But the opposite way of depending the viewer part heavily on core FlightGear components is certainly not going into the outlined direction. Ack! Mathias -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Hi, On Tuesday 11 August 2009 00:28:43 Martin Spott wrote: You've probably misunderstood 'fgviewer'. As far as I can tell, one of the ideas behind this nice tool had been to create a lightweight viewer component _without_ pulling in tons of inter-dependencies which are so omnipresent in FlightGear. Yes, this was the main intent. GReetings Mathias -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Hi, On Tuesday 11 August 2009 12:08:05 Martin Spott wrote: ... I understand the idea behind the 'fgviewer' tool as creating a distinct viewer component (yet still in the early stage of development) which, while still remaining compilant with the FlightGear environment, is trying to adopt as little dependencies from FlightGear as possible and therefore does not necessarily has to follow every rule of how things are done in fgfs in order to achieve its fine goal. Actually I'm convinced that carefully cutting some of the old ties (some call them cruft), for example by keeping the viewer part as independent from the FlightGear core as possible, might serve as a good platform for future development. It's obvious that FlightGear, as every visual simulation, has to depend on the viewer. But the opposite way of depending the viewer part heavily on core FlightGear components is certainly not going into the outlined direction. Ack! Mathias I also think it's a good idea to factor out the dependencies that the visual part of flightgear has on the whole flightgear implementation. It's not right at the head of my queue, but I support the idea and will look for ways to move it along. In the meantime the --fgviewer works well for model viewing; hopefully it can go away soon. Tim -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Ron Jensen wrote: Mathias, For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? This is the fault of the new effects code. Effects rely on the FlightGear property tree and on some custom OSG handling. I started pulling what was needed into fgviewer. After a bunch of initialization problems, I gave up and pulled fgviewer into fgfs itself. You can get the fgviewer functionality by starting fgfs with the --fgviewer argument. This code doesn't do nearly as much initialization as the full fgfs, so it is quick to start up, but it does read preferences.xml and autosave.xml and understands the fgfs command line arguments. You can, for example, set property values on the command line. Tim -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Tim, Tim Moore wrote: Ron Jensen wrote: For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? This is the fault of the new effects code. Effects rely on the FlightGear property tree and on some custom OSG handling. I started pulling what was needed into fgviewer. You've probably misunderstood 'fgviewer'. As far as I can tell, one of the ideas behind this nice tool had been to create a lightweight viewer component _without_ pulling in tons of inter-dependencies which are so omnipresent in FlightGear. It's a bit sad that what is actually meant to be a useful feature (the effects stuff) finally has such a huge impact on the design - I have to admit that I didn't see this coming when you proposed to add the shader effects infrastructure. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 22:28 +, Martin Spott wrote: Tim, Tim Moore wrote: Ron Jensen wrote: For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? This is the fault of the new effects code. Effects rely on the FlightGear property tree and on some custom OSG handling. I started pulling what was needed into fgviewer. You've probably misunderstood 'fgviewer'. As far as I can tell, one of the ideas behind this nice tool had been to create a lightweight viewer component _without_ pulling in tons of inter-dependencies which are so omnipresent in FlightGear. It's a bit sad that what is actually meant to be a useful feature (the effects stuff) finally has such a huge impact on the design - I have to admit that I didn't see this coming when you proposed to add the shader effects infrastructure. Cheers, Martin. Actually, on my system fgviewer loads in ~3 seconds and fgfs --fgviewer loads in ~5 seconds. That's acceptably light-weight to me. And the w key works to turn on wireframes. Thanks Tim! Ron -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Ron Jensen wrote: On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 22:28 +, Martin Spott wrote: Tim, Tim Moore wrote: Ron Jensen wrote: For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? This is the fault of the new effects code. Effects rely on the FlightGear property tree and on some custom OSG handling. I started pulling what was needed into fgviewer. You've probably misunderstood 'fgviewer'. As far as I can tell, one of the ideas behind this nice tool had been to create a lightweight viewer component _without_ pulling in tons of inter-dependencies which are so omnipresent in FlightGear. I understand fgviewer well enough to know that it was buggy even without the effects code: various bits were subtly different from how things are done in fgfs. As far as lightweight goes, Ron has actually run the tool before giving his opinion. If you're worried about memory usage, well, I'm sure you've heard of demand paging, copy on write, and all that. It's a bit sad that what is actually meant to be a useful feature (the effects stuff) finally has such a huge impact on the design - I have to admit that I didn't see this coming when you proposed to add the shader effects infrastructure. I'm not sure what you mean by large impact on the design. If you really care about why it is hard to make a useful standalone viewer program I can go into greater detail, but the effects system doesn't change that much. Cheers, Martin. Actually, on my system fgviewer loads in ~3 seconds and fgfs --fgviewer loads in ~5 seconds. That's acceptably light-weight to me. And the w key works to turn on wireframes. Thanks Tim! You're welcome! Tim -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Mathias, For some reason scenery textures are no longer being loaded by fgviewer? Thanks, Ron -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Hi, On Saturday 23 May 2009 15:55:41 Ron Jensen wrote: Loading aircraft/building models from the .xml file would be an awesome feature. Now the xml files referenced from the stg's are included. You can also load xml files directly. But the results might look surprising with the lack of the properties the animations refer to. But great first step! Next small step... Greetings Mathias -- OpenSolaris 2009.06 is a cutting edge operating system for enterprises looking to deploy the next generation of Solaris that includes the latest innovations from Sun and the OpenSource community. Download a copy and enjoy capabilities such as Networking, Storage and Virtualization. Go to: http://p.sf.net/sfu/opensolaris-get ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
On Saturday 23 May 2009 19:44:44 Frederic Bouvier wrote: The tool is included in the last Win32 build Thanks! Mathias -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Hi, On Saturday 23 May 2009 15:55:41 Ron Jensen wrote: This is a basic version of that tool that might grow it there is a need. I hope to include more flightgear internal scenery loading stuff so that you can at some time also load aircraft models an see if the static parts animations/transforms/postprocessing steps are as expected without the need to start the whole simulation. Loading aircraft/building models from the .xml file would be an awesome feature. Yes, some required bits are already in place, but not all. It would be nice if an unset FG_ROOT would post a better error message than: $ fgviewer terminate called after throwing an instance of 'sg_io_exception' Aborted Done. It would be even nicer if it compiled in the --datadir= default from configure. :) But great first step! Yes, that is the intention ... Greetings Mathias -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 20:30 +0200, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Hi all, I have now checked in a small tool in flightgear that can be used just like osgviewer. The huge difference is that it also works for btg and with some knowledge about the internals of the model loading process also for stg files. The tool is aimed at people working on scenery and willing to see how their scenery modifications will look like. The can do so now without starting flightgear. This seems to work for me. This is a basic version of that tool that might grow it there is a need. I hope to include more flightgear internal scenery loading stuff so that you can at some time also load aircraft models an see if the static parts animations/transforms/postprocessing steps are as expected without the need to start the whole simulation. Loading aircraft/building models from the .xml file would be an awesome feature. So far so good. You need to set the environment variable FG_ROOT like you should have in flightgear. And then for example load a btg.gz file of your interrest :) Problems and suggestions to me :) Greetings Mathias Thanks Mathias... It would be nice if an unset FG_ROOT would post a better error message than: $ fgviewer terminate called after throwing an instance of 'sg_io_exception' Aborted It would be even nicer if it compiled in the --datadir= default from configure. :) But great first step! Much Thanks, Ron -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
Great and usefull tool, thanks for start to develop it! -- --- WBR, Vadym. -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
The tool is included in the last Win32 build -Fred -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgviewer
The tool is included in the last Win32 build -Fred Thanks a lot! -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT is a gathering of tech-side developers brand creativity professionals. Meet the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian Group, R/GA, Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
