Christoph Reuss wrote:
Yeah, we creative types really dream of the end of 'wage slavery' !
I could spend years and years only with creative hobbies, NGO volunteering
and the Net, but alas, the 'job' work gets in the way most of the time.
However, in a part of the NGO work I got to know a
Thomas Lunde wrote:
(snip)
As I look at the ads of training schools, I do not see
an offers for training to become a Y2K correction specialist and most
courses in their outlines do not even mention the need to become expert in
Y2K problems. Second question - what is going on in the
Christoph Reuss wrote:
Let's analyze this (it does fit together): Conventional ovens heat the
food from outside to inside, so the pathogens INside ground meat survive
if you don't cook it long enough. Microwave ovens heat the food from
inside to outside, so the pathogens on the _surface_
Brian McAndrews wrote:
(snip) I remember reading an article where a leading
researcher in chemotherapy developed cancer and chose not to go through the
standard chemo process. He said he knew too much.
Education's a B__! as they say here on the streets of NYCity.Thanks for the
Victor Milne wrote:
I heard one programmer discussing it on radio several
months ago, and he said that often when they find a date field, it's
difficult to understand how the routine containing it interacts with other
parts of the program. The work has been automated to some extent by
Durant wrote:
REH
Never having lived in Marxist Communism I am sure that is true however:
Here we go again... Ray, nobody yet lived in Marxist Communism,
what's more, not one of the pseudo-socialist countries/ex-leaders claimed
that their countries were Marxist Communist. Not even
I agree with Arthur,
I think we are too much involved with the "change and progress" cult which more
resembles an addiction to novelty, than a logical plan of action.IMO change
does little without understanding the whole problem as well as having serious
long term knowledge of the
Jim Dator wrote:
Arthur, et al., I find the argument for dispirited civil servants rings
true for Hawaii as well as the points on either side.
But I do have a question: since the private sectors employees are
downsized with even greater frequency and ease than the public workers,
are
I agree
REH
Saul N. Silverman wrote:
I agree with Arthur Cordell. "Reform" occurs by changing the thrust of
government's agenda, and this means "speaking truth to power",
clarifying publlic perceptions, not letting half truths or wooly
theories take the place of realistic socio-political
I have a couple of questions for the economists on the list.
1. Do the European un-employed collect a check from the society, because
they are unemployed?
2. If they do, do they just sit around or do they create work for themselves
that has value other than economic. Family value for
This is an interesting post. I think that Victor is missing the value of
self-image to those who would exploit others but cannot stand the heat of being
the villain. As missionaries go around the world and credit themselves with
diving into the sewers of various countries in order to prove
"Know It Alls" is the phrase that was used in the late 18 and 19th centuries to
identify the folks in the Cherokee Nation who were convinced that Christianity was
true and that it would save the nation from the preditory pioneer population. In the
end, they signed the document that created the
Subject:
Re: more from Johns Hopkins
Date:
Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:02:11 -0700
From:
"Ray E. Harrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
References:
1
Jay Hanson wrote:
IMHO, it's mostly
I just talked to my Congressman's office and they said that it wasn't true,
that there was no bill or plans for one to do such. Where did this come
from?Who is this webmaster?Are we encountering another piece of
libertarian nonsense meant to disrupt the flow of information in
Sorry guys, but considering the history of people who have "solved" the
problems of the past like highways, nuclear power, the "free market",
the buffalo, the Indians, the internal combustion engine, the Concorde,
the economy, all with out looking at the big picture, makes me not
look to science
Lazy Fare is not always going to be free but today
they can't
give it away.They've been putting the Rupert
Murdoch NYPost sleaze
rag on my doorstep for over a month now and I have
told them that it
embarrasses me in front of the neighbors but they
just won't stop.
Now they're putting the same
Thanks for the reply
Eva Durant wrote:
Religious people believe in a god, whether
it is a literal one with beard or an abstract
one that supposed to be symbolising some
sort of human feeling/thinking/valuing.
There is nothing abstract about Ultimate Concern withthat which is Ultimate in
Just be sure you don't heat it.As I found out heat or micro-waves
kill enzymes.
REH
pete wrote:
Michael Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Um, this is straying kinda far off topic, but when Pete Vincent wrote:
As to "cellulosic biomass", that is protein,...
I hope you were making
The problem of health, commodities, the left vs.
the right, or the mental models that we bring to
these discussions seems to be making people angry
everywhere .The future of work is an
interesting thought except everyone only seems to
want to discuss the future of their work or their
Sorry guys gals,
but it ain't that simple. Just ask Hall, Geertz or any of the
others who have come to realize that the world does not only have
two sides. Brad, that Maslow hierarchy exists as a holistic
frame, in the moment, not as an order of events. I would encourage
a look at his
Durant wrote:
I had no response to my arguments;
Science is only a tool and even art would be non-existent without
scientific problemsolving.
What is the date on the invention of the modern scientific process? Method?
It is the social/economical/cultural system that poses and
But why is this all beginning to sound like "original sin?"
REH
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
A given quantity of stuff is not a constant. That's the
point I was trying to make. Technological advance
(advance in knowledge in general...)
enables us to do more/better
with the same amount of
"Finally I understand it Grandfather
All life is but a flower
But the songs,
They will never die."
Nezahualcoytl
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Jay Hanson wrote:
>
> >Tor Frde:
>
> >But about 10.000 years ago a catastrophe happened: agriculture was
> >developed. And from then on began humans to
Funny that I should have quoted Nezahualcoytl before I read this post. This is a
pretty good representation of what I have been trying to say about the value of
art and identity. If you decide to pay for it then it will be valuable, is a
stupid way to live. It IS valuable and paying for it
I'm not going to say much about this since there is a sleeping tiger on
this list named M. Hollinshead who has written a book on the matter.
Maybe he will awaken? Who knows.
But, let me say about the issue of rationality, Universities, Utility
etc. the issue for me is not Reason but Practice.
Michael, how good to hear your voice and enjoy your ideas.
Ray,
Michael Spencer wrote:
Ed Wieck quotes Vladimir I. Markov to the effect that:
...fully 60% of the existing private companies [in Russia] are
in some way or another associated with the criminal world - either
they
I think that I have just read a post of Eva's that I can say that it is 100% my
experience as well. The pendulum will swing as more people come here and see that
the streets are a fraud and that many educational, cultural and health programs
they enjoyed there are not generally available here
I agree. REH
Jay Hanson wrote:
This is by far the best mailing list I have been on.It's a brainstorming
list. The free flow of intelligent ideas and interesting, reliable
information really sets this list apart from the others. This is the
internet at its finest.
Jay
I would also recommend At de Lange's original writing on the application of
entropy to human systems under the thread "Essentialities and experience"
at http://www.learning-org.com.
I would peruse the last three months or so for his discussions on how the
concept of entropy has progressed into
Eva, how do you justify your opinion about all women everywhere as property with
the fact that in most Native American communities the women owned the property
and could put the husband out of the marriage by simply putting his shoes in the
door? Power was vested in the clans and in the clan
Well, I was teaching a wonderful black dramatic soprano today and her answer to
this particular question was that there was something in the Caucasian gene
that didn't allow for serious long term cooperation.The statement sounds
racist but somehow you all seem to be coming up with the same
Eva, don't be a bore. There is plenty of research in the works of Geertz, Edward
Hall ect. that proves that we are radically different once we get beyond the "we are
all the same once we take off our clothes" stage. You should consider the French
attitude towards world musics. Up until the
Eva, my apologies for not catching this post which was before my past one asking for a
reply. My server only gave this post to me today for some reason.
The Great Civilizations in North America were nearly all matrilineal including the Long
House Houdinosaunee who gave Ben Franklin the
I love the stories Jay. But there are a couple of things that make
this truly complex. One is the fact that those who don't believe
in objective data justify it with being experts in Aristotilian Logic
and the other is that magic is not the realm of science but of art.
Unfortunately the
To the List.
I've especially enjoyed this little bit of self love going in this list.
I've not encountered it before on this list and it gives me hope for the
future even if the options thus far seem to be "Blade Runner" or "Road
Warrior." At one point I was especially impressed with
all of the
I basically agree with Brad or maybe the word "hope" is more accurate.
What I would also say is that in all of this there has been no mention of the
alternatives provided by the great American and African civilizations of the
past. Also, most of the great Oriental civilizations that have been
Eva Durant wrote:
UFO "sightings" are at the same level as
virgin mary sightings.
Last night I heard Arthur C.Clark claim that he had seen a dozen
or so sightings and that anyone who hadn't seen at least one was
probably in a city with an overcast.The area where I grew up
in North
"You pays your money and you takes your chances," however, in the
short 56 years that I have been on the planet, I have seen Nicholas
Tinbergen accept his Nobel prize with a lecture on the work of F.M.
Alexander and Moshe Feldenkrais, an Israeli physicist and the designer
of the tank used by the
Jay,
Coming from a former resources rich state. The state of Oklahoma which had the
richest lead and zinc deposits in the world as well as being the "Oil Capital of
the World" all now depleted, I can share that your predictions are not only
logical but probable. Of course, like the Aztecs who
Hi Mike,
This is a very interesting post. I find it the most interesting in how
you are traversing the path of traditional Native American Plain's Myth in
your forms. The net for example is the traditional form of Spider Woman
and is considered essentially feminine in nature.
Amongst the
I wrote to my friend John:
The problem of health, commodities, the left vs.
the right, or the mental models that we bring to
these discussions seems to be making people angry
everywhere .The future of work is an
interesting thought except everyone only seems to
want to discuss
Durant wrote:
I asked for a contribution in the above themes from a friend of
mine who happens to be hungarian, married to an
English chap and a socialist, quite like me...
Be sure - there are more useful work-related information
here that in a lot of other posts!
For some reason she
To the list:
I tried sending a picture but obviously that doesn't work. I guess it's just
"too big", I mean too much memory for the list or servers.Anyone who wants
one just ask and I will try sending it to you. Eva, did you get the picture?
Now as for Eva, Ed, Jay, Arthur, Sally, Mike
Me too. I used to breed dogs. I had Collies first then Shelties, Miniature
Schnauzers and Bichon Frises. Many times the behavior of an animal can be
traced to an owner and the environment he created but this is not always the
case. Especially with the smaller inbred species there have
Hi Ed, Hello Sally and Arthur all you wonderful people. Hello
Mike G.
I've been lurking for a while as these questions have been being
asked. Maybe the
answer has to do with the willingness to be a nomad. During the last
century
there was a rather steady stream across Europe of
A little fun from one of my favorite writers on science, life and attitudes.
REH
Questioning the calendar
A skeptic confronts the millennium
By Stephen Jay Gould
Feb. 26 We have a false impression, buttressed by some
famously exaggerated testimony, that the universe runs with
the
Well, I usually find myself agreeing with Arthur but coming from that group
that you all are lionizing, I would have to respectfully disagree. The issue
for me is life experience, education and professionalism.The issue with
U.S. politicians is one of time. American Politicians are elected
Brian McAndrews wrote:
Hi Ray, I learned a very important lesson from 4 Mohawk women who I was
privileged to teach a few years ago. They told me that in their culture,
when a person is asked a question, the answer might come hours or weeks
later. The answer might also be in the form of
Durant wrote:
I don't quite understand you. Whether sooner or later we
can describe accurately all the mechanisms in our brain that
makes up our consciousness is not relevant to the existance
of reality, it existed before us and if as for Jay's insistence we
die out, it will exist without
Sorry folks, I reread this post and had to correct the multiple errors.
This is the corrected version.
REH
Brian McAndrews wrote:
Hi Ray, I learned a very important lesson from 4 Mohawk women who I was
privileged to teach a few years ago. They told me that in their culture,
when a person
Eva Durant wrote:
reality is a word symbol for what we believe is out there.
no, it was/is/will be there whether we believe it or not.
By reality I mean the physical world and all it's past
present and future variable permutations.
We have different perceptions and beliefs, but
as
To the list:
Just thought you all might want to know about this. Especially if you are on
AOL.
REH
http://www.msnbc.com/news/
Jan. 6 Heres a computer virus story thats not an urban
legend. If you receive an attachment in e-mail called
picture.exe,
Casper,
You think that one was bad, consider this from the Nobel prizewinner in
yesterday's NYTimes. The subtext could be, is it a three headed monster
or a puff of smoke? I wonder what he thinks about the future of work and
the availability of work in that future? What do you think Arthur,
Yes and one could also make a case for the pushing of the impeachment of the
current resident of the White House by both MSNBC and FOX at this special time
in the MS law suit but that would be too complicated according to current rules
of concentration being taught in the public schools.
Durant wrote:
The alternative is to give everyone a decent scientific education
and critical thinking, so we may democratically decide what is the
best scientific option to solve the problem of that economic
foundation that is so erratically shaking under our feet.
Eva
Eva,
I've enjoyed
Eva Durant wrote:
I'd prefer to concentrate on a bit
more revolutionary aspects
of the workplace...
we could play with the thought
how we picture a truly democratic workplace,
but I don't think that your project superwisors
and founders are really interested in that...
Sure they are
I agree Tom, but isn't even saying it a little like the proselytizer's answering
that the problem is not with the product but the salesman?
REH
Tom Walker wrote:
Ray Harrell wrote,
The argument I have made on these lists for a number of years is that this
is all related to value. What
I said
e.g. an operatic part at the Metropolitan costs tops $19,000 per
performance. While the
same part in Vienna can double that. Why is it worth more
in Vienna than here? It
has nothing to do with its inherent value as a major part of a great
work of art. It has
to do with the story that the
The Aztecs with the largest market in the world at the time, solved the
problem by making the Cacoa Bean (a food) the unit of value. Can you
imagine Rukeyser abandoning commodoties if they are the unit of
money?Then there is the issue of work as a part of the ethos of the
culture.
Very interesting response Tom, but there are a few problems
with your marriage of the metaphors.
1. Unfortunately, the 19th Century Artists who read the 19th century
economists and participated in the wars, on their side, were often better
composers than the economists were theorists. The
That reminds me of the economist (William Baumol) who told the composer
dean of Juilliard (William Schumann) that he had no complaints as a composer
since he had a job as a teacher. (Of course did America have complaints
as a culture since we lost so much of his talent to the supposed good of
Aw shucks, I was kinda enjoying the mud. I haven't gotten down and dirty in a
while and no one more fun to do it with than yourself.Interesting how the
problem becomes one of how all of those stupendous talents graduating from school
as "professional" actors end up on "Wings" playing
Eva Durant wrote:
Science is a method. I detest any separation of
thinking into "artist" and "scientist". I think we
all do and need both, but this has nothing to do with
the way science works.
"Detest" doesn't say anything. Because both hands are the body doesn't mean
that both hands
I know many former artists who have good jobs in the sciences, however the
reverse is rarely true. Why?
Eva Durant wrote:
Both describe reality in different ways.
One person is able to do both. I don't think
artists are predisposed against being good at
science and vice versa.
Eva
Eva Durant wrote: (snip)
Because they think without the intrusion of govrnments,
the winners/losers separation would be more perfect
for them. So that they can blame then every ill
on just their "inefficiently evolved" victims.
Are you saying it is like the Christian who blames Christians
Actually Brian, I have no problem nor does my culture or profession with
Quantum Physics, it is just the linearity of Newtonian physics without the
uncertainity of his metaphysics (action) to balance his linear objectification
that I would protest. I don't believe reality is contained in
Would someone help me on this. What was Neo-Corporatism in the 1930s? I've run
across the term and have found no description.
As for hiring your leaders, that is what most American cities do. The elect a
mayor and hire a City Manager to run the place.It works pretty well but does
not
I hesitate to get involved since so much of this feels like talking past
each other.
In my business I deal with people from a lot of different language
cultures and
from cultures who use the same language but in different ways. Math
and Physics
are about the only languages possible in these
thers need profit or they stagnate according to the dominant political
theories.
What do you think?
REH
Jay Hanson wrote:
- Original Message -----
From: Ray E. Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As for hiring your leaders, that is what most American cities do. The
elect a mayor and hire a Ci
in "Brave New World."
REH
Jay Hanson wrote:
- Original Message -----
From: Ray E. Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Interesting but what would you do about initiative?That has been the
problem with all of the "job" oriented labor in the communist and socialist
Franklin Wayne Poley wrote:
Good questions and the ones parliamentarians are paid to talk about. I'm
not sure if I agree with the use of Canadian Forces or not in Yugoslavia.
How could I decide except on some very basic emotional level unless we are
told by Parliament what the PRINCIPLES
So I bought a computer through a local business, (across the street).
Paid much more, expecting good service but his service turned out
to be more expensive than Gateway or Dell and the computer has
defective parts. I leased it (bought it on time) and in four years will
have paid more than I
Michel,
I have written you in the past about my admiration for your IMF
analysis of the Yugoslav breakup but since that time have spoken
with my Slovenian relatives. They are not upset. They are quite
happy to be separate from it all. They also seem happy to give
up their universal health
To Futurework, Sally, Arthur, you can cut this if you wish but
I have decided that a serious talk from the heart and from our
lives about the future life and death issues that face us, all provide
an opportunity that should not be missed. Michel's posts to me
have convinced me that, for me, it
I intended to post the article about the movies running to Canada
but Arthur beat me to the punch, so how about this article about
how logical and scientific we are and how up to date out
blessed institutions happen to be. Several years ago it was
noted in the NYTimes that the head of major
Chris you said:
Greetings from a multi-cultural European country
that had _2_ short (defense) wars in the last 500 years
(but I guess this can't be read in your informative NYT),
What country is that? Where does it get it's wealth? Do
they immigrate people to America? If so, why?
When the regular business organizations and wall street
became involved in Not-for-profit companies, in this
case recording projects a few years back, for the purpose
of having a business write-off as well as hiding funds, the
Congress passed a law which made such practices illegal.
It hurt all
S. Lerner wrote:
From: "vivian Hutchinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(snip)
FROM JOB TO PROFESSION
by Andrew Kimbrell
*The word job in English originally meant a criminal or
demeaning action. (We retain this meaning when we call a bank
robbery a "bank job.") After the industrial
Christoph Reuss wrote:
Ed Weick replied:
How beautifully smug! I understand that your bankers made quite a lot of
money from the gold and jewelry that the Nazis took from death-camp victims.
Europe, if you read its history, was a cesspool of wars, repressions and
mass
I've been away so I'm not sure whether this is old turf or not
on this issue.
1. As a performing artist who deals with the meaning of words
on the stage I find literacy useful in three ways.
a. as a substitute for a poor memory
b. as a way of transmitting rudimentary information
over
are
impractical. Instead I feel it to be a point of emphasis..
Consider,
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
I've been away so I'm not sure whether this is old turf or not
on this issue.
(Ditto)
1. As a performing artist who deals with the meaning of words
on the stage I find literacy useful in three
Hi Tom,
Sitting here with a computer that more resembles a "Hot
Rod" and that makes me very sorry not to have taken the
auto mechanics course that my mother insisted upon and
I resisted. Sitting here with a machine that is not made
by a big monopoly or with a decent warrenty. A machine
that
Report from the NYTimes 7/14/99
Report Says Profit-Making Health Plans Damage Care
July 14, 1999
Related Articles
Issue in Depth: Health Care
Forum
Join a Discussion on Health Care Reform
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Objective history, that grand imagined jewel of the Western
literary world was given a lesson in Oklahoma last month
when the Thunderbeings sent 78 tornados to remind we
informationed folks that new is "great." That only the
mountains last forever and that the development of individual
and
Having grown up on the reservation which was the number one
toxic waste dump in America (Super-fund), where the houses
just dropped into cave-ins with people in them and where
the largest Indian nation West of the Mississippi River
and who had owned the state of Arkansas (correct pronunciation
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
[snip]
Rowe's comments about the ivory tower of economics
resonated well with me because I belong to an "illegitimate"
profession
[snip]
I think Foucault pretty well exposed the nature of professional
"legitimacy
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
[snip]
I'm reminded of a friend doing research on fish behaviorat the New York
Museum of Natural History. He is a
psychologist and quit the team because he said that he
LEADERSHIP AND COMPETENCY
I have typed in portions of an article by the complexity scholar
John Warfield with his permission to share. I think it bears
on the pedagogy of the first part of leadership, the ability to
see the levels of complication connected to the team's
incompetencies
Chris, that's not cynicism, that's business. One of the
reasons they can downsize so easily is because of the
excess they hire. All of these exercises with numbers,
hours, and work weeks are just more of the same. The
size of the company separates you so much from those
who truly control the
Robert,
My library book on Keynsian economics says basically
the same thing. If your economy is in trouble start a war.
(I can hear the apologist's keyboards rattle, "Marx
wasn't an economist and Keynes didn't mean it.")
One of the things that no one would consider (because
it doesn't fit,
Ed,
I am a private entrepreneur who must examine
everything in order to survive, however you could
help on this if when you say:
Hi Ray,
I won't comment on Marx or Keynes except to say that your library book has
wronged them both.
1. you explained what you meant about the
Hey guys,
You did get the context of Ed's statement right?
I've been giving Ed a lot of guff about his economic
theories effecting how he reads history apart from the
facts but I would never see him as an arch-conservative
neo-fascist. Or a Clintonian political thermometer.
Ed, you were not
How's your library Keith?
The issue with all of this is that it is inaccurate. I grew up
in an indigenous community. My sister is Aleut and an
actress with the likes of Peter Brook, Andre Serban etc.
has played Clytemnestra with them, helped bring a Aleut
Antigone from Upik to New York City
Most interesting. Sounds like an old artist's maxim,
"you either can do it or you can't."
Now how do you learn to do it?
Is it the small bits of information like numbers,
writing or other academic standards arrived at
through the necessity to teach mass education to
massive groups of people?
Ed,
Your comments about romantic are confusing
to me as an artist. Romanticism has a highly specific
meaning to me. Emerson for example was a romantic,
does that mean that his observations are untrue or
untrustworthy? The root of the word in Art goes back
to the Greek duality of Dionysus
This is a long document. If you are not up for it,
then accept my apologies and skip it. REH
Well Ed and Keith, if I don't answer these things then
people believe they are true. And there is a lot of
just plain old economic paternalism in your post.
Consider how there is very little
First:
Ed Weick wrote:
Ray,
I do accept your point, but I was not concerned with the arts when I used
the term 'romanticize'. I simply meant that one must avoid portraying
aboriginal Americans, or any people, as having a special wisdom or
nobility -- as being "the noble savage".
The
Hi Brad,
Thanks for your post. I'm working on my return but it
will be a little while. As for monoculture I would say that
it is not so much that they had corn soup but that the
culture of McDonald's may or may not be close to the
Japanese and the issue is whether the Japanese can
absorb
Too bad they can't assess liability for lost families,
intellectual capital, land use ideas etc. It seems to
me that you are using the rules of a divorce without
separating.
Better you start with the ideas of justice
and the rule of law as defined by both groups. The
truth is that one group
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Permit me to insert, in medias res, a concern I have:
Ed Weick wrote:
REH not Ed wrote this
Too bad they can't assess liability for lost families,
intellectual capital, land use ideas etc. It seems to
me that you are using the rules of a divorce
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