Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 03/07/2021 12:00, Tamer Higazi wrote:

Hi Wol,

If I am you, I would install "mate" desktop, which is basicly gnome2 and 
gnome transition to wayland is as much as I know completed. XFCE is a 
bit behind, that takes a time ...


My make.conf contains "-gtk -gnome". I have ABSOLUTELY NO plans to 
change that, sorry ...


Oh - and if "startplasma-wayland" won't run, I'm sure 
"startgnome-wayland" won't, either ... :-)


But this has taught me a lot. Which was the whole point of the exercise 
:-) I now have a much better understanding of how systemd and wayland work.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Tamer Higazi]

Hi Wol,

If I am you, I would install "mate" desktop, which is basicly gnome2 and 
gnome transition to wayland is as much as I know completed. XFCE is a 
bit behind, that takes a time ...


https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/MATE

What I figured out, that this is not the very only thing to have wayland 
supported.
When it comes to screensharing and propper bluetooth integration there 
is a fast moving project called "pipewire".


I have replaced pulseaudio with pipewire on my gentoo machine and teams 
work smooth as well bluetooth with AptX HD.


url: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/PipeWire

what this article doesn't cover is to setup the "module policy section"...
Here you sould change in /etc/default/pulse:

 load-module module-bluetooth-policy

to

|load-module module-bluetooth-policy auto_switch=2|

That makes it possible to automaticly switch the codec automaticly when 
"mic" is needed.

(as windows does)
||

|I am happy :-)|

|
|

|best, Tamer
|



Am 21 Jun 2021 um 18:27 schrieb Wols Lists:

What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?

I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I seem to
remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.

Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
*helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to maintain
your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO anything with the
system...)

I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag and
install two packages".

Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set it
up, please ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 26/06/2021 13:00, Michael wrote:

On Saturday, 26 June 2021 11:50:01 BST antlists wrote:


I just want a working systemd/wayland desktop system. So basically, a
full-weight normal desktop.

[snip ...]


I've got this one selected, /desktop/plasma/systemd


Select default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable).

Then update @world.  You should be good to go as long as video drivers and
firmware are in place, but if X11 is not working this could be an area
meriting further investigation.


Okay, ...

One new kernel later (along with some grub debugging :-), world updated, ...

X11 still isn't working - first it complained it couldn't find twm, so I 
emerged that, now startx just runs and exits, and the log doesn't seem 
to show anything wrong ...


Wayland is interesting ... if I try to startplasma-wayland, it comes up 
with the starting plasma stuff, and there's a mouse cursor, but nothing 
except a black screen and the cursor. When I kill it from a root tty, 
there's an error


Failed to create wl_display (No such file or directory)

which a google tells me I haven't got a compositor ...

I also get further errors, but they're probably a consequence -

Could not load the Qt platform plugin "Wayland" in "" even though it was 
found


and the same error for xcb.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 27/06/2021 16:14, Jack wrote:
I noticed that one post mentioned /dev/card1 and the other talked about 
/dev/dri/card0.  If the former was not a typo omitting /dri/ then that 
might be something to check out.




The former was a what I remembered ... quite possibly wrong ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Jack]

I noticed that one post mentioned /dev/card1 and the other talked about 
/dev/dri/card0.  If the former was not a typo omitting /dri/ then that 
might be something to check out.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Sunday, 27 June 2021 12:52:39 BST antlists wrote:
> On 27/06/2021 11:36, Michael wrote:

> > You're meant to be running X11 as a non-root user.
> 
> And if the only user on the system is root, which I'm logged in as :-)

Then create a plain non-root user account and login as such.


> >> As I said earlier, X currently won't run. I've got a Asus EAH4350, and
> >> am loading the Radeon driver.
> > 
> > I am not familiar with the model and any APU/graphics options it may be
> > furnished with.  You have not shared what the video card might be.
> 
> Well, "Asus EAH4350" is what it says on the box.
> 
> >  A quick
> > search on the interwebs mention an AMD R700 family, HD4350 card. 
> > According
> 
> > to:
> So I guess Asus have rebadged the 4350 chipset, and those drivers should
> work.

I don't know if this is so and what might be in the box.  Only you can 
determine this, definitively, if you follow the guide in the wiki URL below:

> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Radeon
> > 
> > such a card requires in your make.conf:
> > 
> > VIDEO_CARDS="radeon r600"
> > 
> > emerge 'sys-kernel/linux-firmware' and in your kernel specify the
> > following
> > firmware:
> > 
> > radeon/R600_rlc.bin radeon/RS780_uvd.bin radeon/RS780_pfp.bin radeon/
> > RS780_me.bin
> 
> Thanks. I'll add all that stuff ...

Best you establish first what video hardware is available in this PC, as per 
the wiki page I posted above, then add the correct corresponding firmware and 
drivers, before you rebuild your kernel, update @world and reboot.

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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 27/06/2021 11:36, Michael wrote:

On Sunday, 27 June 2021 10:05:59 BST Wols Lists wrote:

On 21/06/21 16:17, Michael wrote:

Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't work
with
Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get with them is a
black screen.

Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland


Okay, we're slowly moving forward ...

My first attempt got the error "kwin-plasma won't run as root" or
somesuch. Created a new user for me, and promptly got a black screen!


You're meant to be running X11 as a non-root user.


And if the only user on the system is root, which I'm logged in as :-)



As I said earlier, X currently won't run. I've got a Asus EAH4350, and
am loading the Radeon driver.


I am not familiar with the model and any APU/graphics options it may be
furnished with.  You have not shared what the video card might be.


Well, "Asus EAH4350" is what it says on the box.


 A quick
search on the interwebs mention an AMD R700 family, HD4350 card.  According
to:


So I guess Asus have rebadged the 4350 chipset, and those drivers should 
work.


https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Radeon

such a card requires in your make.conf:

VIDEO_CARDS="radeon r600"

emerge 'sys-kernel/linux-firmware' and in your kernel specify the following
firmware:

radeon/R600_rlc.bin radeon/RS780_uvd.bin radeon/RS780_pfp.bin radeon/
RS780_me.bin


Thanks. I'll add all that stuff ...



When I looked at the X log it was clearly
loading the driver, which failed with something like "cannot find
/dev/card1". If that gives anyone any clues where to point me that's
great, or I'll transfer the logs to this machine and post them.

Cheers,
Wol


dmesg will show if there is any problem with the kernel missing modules, or
having problems loading firmware;

/var/log/Xorg.0.log will show what problems X11 comes up with when it tries to
launch.

Normally /dev/dri/card0 is the first card being loaded:

$ grep -i card /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[37.111] (II) xfree86: Adding drm device (/dev/dri/card0)
[37.148] (II) xfree86: Adding drm device (/dev/dri/card1)
[38.366] (II) Applying OutputClass "Radeon" to /dev/dri/card0
[38.367] (II) Applying OutputClass "Radeon" to /dev/dri/card1

Thank you very much. Let's see whether that fixes the problem with 
Wayland, too. I found an interesting blog by ?Michael Graesslin on 
fixing the "black screen in Wayland" problem, but a lot of it dates from 
2016. If Wayland doesn't fix itself, I'll work my way through that, but 
it looks like there's a LOT of things that can go wrong and cause 
problems...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Sunday, 27 June 2021 10:05:59 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 21/06/21 16:17, Michael wrote:
> > Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't work
> > with
> > Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get with them is a
> > black screen.
> > 
> > Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
> > 
> > XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
> 
> Okay, we're slowly moving forward ...
> 
> My first attempt got the error "kwin-plasma won't run as root" or
> somesuch. Created a new user for me, and promptly got a black screen!

You're meant to be running X11 as a non-root user.


> As I said earlier, X currently won't run. I've got a Asus EAH4350, and
> am loading the Radeon driver.

I am not familiar with the model and any APU/graphics options it may be 
furnished with.  You have not shared what the video card might be.  A quick 
search on the interwebs mention an AMD R700 family, HD4350 card.  According 
to:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Radeon

such a card requires in your make.conf:

VIDEO_CARDS="radeon r600"

emerge 'sys-kernel/linux-firmware' and in your kernel specify the following 
firmware:

radeon/R600_rlc.bin radeon/RS780_uvd.bin radeon/RS780_pfp.bin radeon/
RS780_me.bin


> When I looked at the X log it was clearly
> loading the driver, which failed with something like "cannot find
> /dev/card1". If that gives anyone any clues where to point me that's
> great, or I'll transfer the logs to this machine and post them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

dmesg will show if there is any problem with the kernel missing modules, or 
having problems loading firmware;

/var/log/Xorg.0.log will show what problems X11 comes up with when it tries to 
launch.

Normally /dev/dri/card0 is the first card being loaded:

$ grep -i card /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[37.111] (II) xfree86: Adding drm device (/dev/dri/card0)
[37.148] (II) xfree86: Adding drm device (/dev/dri/card1)
[38.366] (II) Applying OutputClass "Radeon" to /dev/dri/card0
[38.367] (II) Applying OutputClass "Radeon" to /dev/dri/card1



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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Wols Lists]

On 21/06/21 16:17, Michael wrote:
> Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't work with 
> Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get with them is a 
> black screen.
> 
> Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
> 
> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland

Okay, we're slowly moving forward ...

My first attempt got the error "kwin-plasma won't run as root" or
somesuch. Created a new user for me, and promptly got a black screen!

As I said earlier, X currently won't run. I've got a Asus EAH4350, and
am loading the Radeon driver. When I looked at the X log it was clearly
loading the driver, which failed with something like "cannot find
/dev/card1". If that gives anyone any clues where to point me that's
great, or I'll transfer the logs to this machine and post them.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Saturday, 26 June 2021 11:50:01 BST antlists wrote:

> I just want a working systemd/wayland desktop system. So basically, a
> full-weight normal desktop.
[snip ...]

> I've got this one selected, /desktop/plasma/systemd

Select default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable).

Then update @world.  You should be good to go as long as video drivers and 
firmware are in place, but if X11 is not working this could be an area 
meriting further investigation.

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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 26/06/2021 10:28, Michael wrote:

On Saturday, 26 June 2021 08:19:24 BST Wols Lists wrote:

On 26/06/21 00:51, Michael wrote:



Given your error, you appear to not have installed the requisite packages
for the Plasma/KDE.  It should have been installed as a dependency of
plasma-workspace:


Ah. Another piece of missing information ... I'll try that. I would have
thought that would have been pulled in seeing as I've got wayland and qt
use flags etc


$ qfile startplasma-wayland
kde-plasma/plasma-workspace: /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland


I am not clear on your particular use case(s).  Plasma desktop is usually
installed by setting the appropriate make.profile:


I just want a working systemd/wayland desktop system. So basically, a 
full-weight normal desktop.


$ eselect profile list
Available profile symlink targets:
   [1]   default/linux/amd64/17.1 (stable)
   [2]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/selinux (stable)
   [3]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/hardened (stable)
   [4]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/hardened/selinux (stable)
   [5]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop (stable)
   [6]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome (stable)
   [7]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome/systemd (stable)
   [8]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable) *
   [9]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable)


I've got this one selected, /desktop/plasma/systemd


   [10]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/systemd (stable)
   [11]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/developer (stable)
   [12]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib (stable)
   [13]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib/hardened (stable)
   [14]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib/hardened/selinux (stable)
   [15]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/systemd (stable)
   [16]  default/linux/amd64/17.0 (dev)
   [17]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/selinux (dev)
   [18]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/hardened (dev)
   [19]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/hardened/selinux (dev)
   [20]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop (dev)
   [21]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome (dev)
   [22]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome/systemd (dev)
   [23]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma (dev)
   [24]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd (dev)
   [25]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/developer (dev)
   [26]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib (dev)
   [27]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib/hardened (dev)
   [28]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib/hardened/selinux (dev)
   [29]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/systemd (dev)
   [30]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/x32 (dev)
   [31]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl (exp)
   [32]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl/hardened (exp)
   [33]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl/hardened/selinux (exp)
   [34]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/uclibc (exp)
   [35]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/uclibc/hardened (exp)

If you are looking for some minimalist desktop, a Plasma DE plus KDE
applications with hundred of dependencies is probably not what you want.
Also, I think Plasma DE and most DMs will pull in X11, because:  a) they work
both with X11 and wayland;  b) many X11 applications can only run in X using
XWayland.  XWayland is an X Server running as a Wayland client to enable
displaying native X11 client applications within a Wayland compositor
environment.  I haven't looked into it at any depth to see if you can strip a
heavy DE like Plasma from all xserver dependencies - I'd guess you can't.

Not after a minimalist system, and if it pulls in X that's fine. 
(Actually, I've installed X, and at the moment it blows up on me, but if 
I can get Wayland working, I don't see the point in debugging it until I 
need to ...)



If you have Gnome already installed then you can use the stanza for gnome-
session instead.


My use flags also contain -gtk -gnome ... gnome at least is on my list
of pet hates ...

Cheers,
Wol


OK, select the Plasma profile, then have a quick look at:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE

You'll need to disable some USE flags of plasma-meta to avoid dragging in
things you may not need/require, like 'display-manager', 'sddm',
'accessibility', etc.  Eventually, after you update @world, add any kde-apps
*-meta packages you need.

However, if you intend to use wayland for the most minimalist of purposes,
then you may want to consider something like Wayfire, instead of Plasma.

I'll need something like sddm, because I'll have multiple users logged 
in simultaneously. I was trying to use qtgreet as per the "Wayland 
Landscape" page, but the package doesn't seem to exist ... I'd rather 
avoid gnome/gdm and gtkgreet, lightdm and sddm look like X11 (and I said 
I didn't want to debug it :-), and tuigreet looks like it might not 
support multi-user/multi-head.


Still, if I can get plasma running, I can work from there ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Saturday, 26 June 2021 08:19:24 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 26/06/21 00:51, Michael wrote:

> > Given your error, you appear to not have installed the requisite packages
> > for the Plasma/KDE.  It should have been installed as a dependency of
> > plasma-workspace:
> 
> Ah. Another piece of missing information ... I'll try that. I would have
> thought that would have been pulled in seeing as I've got wayland and qt
> use flags etc
> 
> > $ qfile startplasma-wayland
> > kde-plasma/plasma-workspace: /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland

I am not clear on your particular use case(s).  Plasma desktop is usually 
installed by setting the appropriate make.profile:

$ eselect profile list
Available profile symlink targets:
  [1]   default/linux/amd64/17.1 (stable)
  [2]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/selinux (stable)
  [3]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/hardened (stable)
  [4]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/hardened/selinux (stable)
  [5]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop (stable)
  [6]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome (stable)
  [7]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome/systemd (stable)
  [8]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma (stable) *
  [9]   default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable)
  [10]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/systemd (stable)
  [11]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/developer (stable)
  [12]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib (stable)
  [13]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib/hardened (stable)
  [14]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib/hardened/selinux (stable)
  [15]  default/linux/amd64/17.1/systemd (stable)
  [16]  default/linux/amd64/17.0 (dev)
  [17]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/selinux (dev)
  [18]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/hardened (dev)
  [19]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/hardened/selinux (dev)
  [20]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop (dev)
  [21]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome (dev)
  [22]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome/systemd (dev)
  [23]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma (dev)
  [24]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd (dev)
  [25]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/developer (dev)
  [26]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib (dev)
  [27]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib/hardened (dev)
  [28]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/no-multilib/hardened/selinux (dev)
  [29]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/systemd (dev)
  [30]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/x32 (dev)
  [31]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl (exp)
  [32]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl/hardened (exp)
  [33]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/musl/hardened/selinux (exp)
  [34]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/uclibc (exp)
  [35]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/uclibc/hardened (exp)

If you are looking for some minimalist desktop, a Plasma DE plus KDE 
applications with hundred of dependencies is probably not what you want.  
Also, I think Plasma DE and most DMs will pull in X11, because:  a) they work 
both with X11 and wayland;  b) many X11 applications can only run in X using 
XWayland.  XWayland is an X Server running as a Wayland client to enable 
displaying native X11 client applications within a Wayland compositor 
environment.  I haven't looked into it at any depth to see if you can strip a 
heavy DE like Plasma from all xserver dependencies - I'd guess you can't.


> > If you have Gnome already installed then you can use the stanza for gnome-
> > session instead.
> 
> My use flags also contain -gtk -gnome ... gnome at least is on my list
> of pet hates ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

OK, select the Plasma profile, then have a quick look at:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE

You'll need to disable some USE flags of plasma-meta to avoid dragging in 
things you may not need/require, like 'display-manager', 'sddm', 
'accessibility', etc.  Eventually, after you update @world, add any kde-apps 
*-meta packages you need.

However, if you intend to use wayland for the most minimalist of purposes, 
then you may want to consider something like Wayfire, instead of Plasma.

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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Wols Lists]

On 26/06/21 00:51, Michael wrote:
> On Friday, 25 June 2021 20:15:22 BST antlists wrote:
>> On 25/06/2021 09:46, Michael wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 June 2021 08:50:32 BST antlists wrote:
 On 23/06/2021 10:11, jdm wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100
>
> Michael  wrote:
>> On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:
>>> What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?
>>>
>>> I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
>>> login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
>>> seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.
>>>
>>> Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
>>> *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
>>> anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
>>> maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
>>> anything with the system...)
>>>
>>> I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
>>> and install two packages".
>>>
>>> Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
>>> it up, please ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Wol
>>
>> Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
>> work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
>> with them is a black screen.
>>
>> Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
>>
>> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
>>
>> or
>>
>> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session
>
> There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
> be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
> it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
> very reliable.
>
> Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape

 Thanks, but I'm none the wiser ... the thing is, for X the instructions
 are simple - "install xorg, run startx".

 Okay, I've done that and got errors I need to solve, but with Wayland I
 just don't have a clue. I don't know what I need, I don't know how to
 start it, all I've got is a pile of bits in a box, and I don't know what
 to do with them.

 Everything I find is like a meccano set - there's loads of bits and
 pieces, but no instructions, and I don't have a clue how they fit
 together. Where's the recipe that says "do this this and this and you
 should have a gui"?

 Cheers,
 Wol

>>>  From what I recall as long as you set USE="wayland" globally and
>>>  re-emerge
>>>
>>> world with '--changed-use' you should able to launch your dekstop in
>>> wayland, rather than Xserver.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland
>>>
>>> There is a caveat, to make things simple: your desktop environment should
>>> have full support for wayland compositing - e.g. Plasma and Gnome come
>>> ready baked with their own compositor and will run in Wayland.  Window
>>> managers which do not possess a compositor will require one installed
>>> separately, as noted in jdm's post, but then we're getting into a box
>>> with a pile of bits in it.
>>>
>>> To launch wayland you can either install a Display Manager and select to
>>> start wayland from its GUI options, instead of X11, or you can run the
>>> stanzas I provided above.
>>
>> Bear in mind my profile is desktop/plasma/systemd ...
>>
>> This is very informative, but it blows up on me ... I've checked that
>> wayland is in my use flags so that should all be okay ...
>>
>> # XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
>> ... startplasma-wayland not found ...
>>
>> # emerge qtgreet
>> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "qtgreet".
>>
>> So you've massively helped in that I now know much better how things fit
>> together, but unfortunately you've also been no help at all in that the
>> stuff you've pointed at doesn't work ...
>>
>> Where do I go from here ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
> 
> I don't think systemd is different (although I don't use it with Gentoo), 
> unless you want to launch a Display Manager like e.g. sddm.

Looking at sddm, it appears to require X? I might well have to play with
that, given that I want a multi-user system (indeed, multi-head) system,
but that can wait ...
> 
> Given your error, you appear to not have installed the requisite packages for 
> the Plasma/KDE.  It should have been installed as a dependency of plasma-
> workspace:

Ah. Another piece of missing information ... I'll try that. I would have
thought that would have been pulled in seeing as I've got wayland and qt
use flags etc
> 
> $ qfile startplasma-wayland
> kde-plasma/plasma-workspace: /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland
> 
> If you have Gnome already installed then you can use the stanza for gnome-
> session instead. 
> 
My use flags also contain 

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Friday, 25 June 2021 20:15:22 BST antlists wrote:
> On 25/06/2021 09:46, Michael wrote:
> > On Friday, 25 June 2021 08:50:32 BST antlists wrote:
> >> On 23/06/2021 10:11, jdm wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100
> >>> 
> >>> Michael  wrote:
>  On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> > What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?
> > 
> > I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
> > login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
> > seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.
> > 
> > Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
> > *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
> > anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
> > maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
> > anything with the system...)
> > 
> > I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
> > and install two packages".
> > 
> > Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
> > it up, please ...
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
>  
>  Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
>  work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
>  with them is a black screen.
>  
>  Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
>  
>  XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
>  
>  or
>  
>  XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session
> >>> 
> >>> There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
> >>> be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
> >>> it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
> >>> very reliable.
> >>> 
> >>> Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape
> >> 
> >> Thanks, but I'm none the wiser ... the thing is, for X the instructions
> >> are simple - "install xorg, run startx".
> >> 
> >> Okay, I've done that and got errors I need to solve, but with Wayland I
> >> just don't have a clue. I don't know what I need, I don't know how to
> >> start it, all I've got is a pile of bits in a box, and I don't know what
> >> to do with them.
> >> 
> >> Everything I find is like a meccano set - there's loads of bits and
> >> pieces, but no instructions, and I don't have a clue how they fit
> >> together. Where's the recipe that says "do this this and this and you
> >> should have a gui"?
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Wol
> >> 
> >  From what I recall as long as you set USE="wayland" globally and
> >  re-emerge
> > 
> > world with '--changed-use' you should able to launch your dekstop in
> > wayland, rather than Xserver.
> > 
> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland
> > 
> > There is a caveat, to make things simple: your desktop environment should
> > have full support for wayland compositing - e.g. Plasma and Gnome come
> > ready baked with their own compositor and will run in Wayland.  Window
> > managers which do not possess a compositor will require one installed
> > separately, as noted in jdm's post, but then we're getting into a box
> > with a pile of bits in it.
> > 
> > To launch wayland you can either install a Display Manager and select to
> > start wayland from its GUI options, instead of X11, or you can run the
> > stanzas I provided above.
> 
> Bear in mind my profile is desktop/plasma/systemd ...
> 
> This is very informative, but it blows up on me ... I've checked that
> wayland is in my use flags so that should all be okay ...
> 
> # XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
> ... startplasma-wayland not found ...
> 
> # emerge qtgreet
> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "qtgreet".
> 
> So you've massively helped in that I now know much better how things fit
> together, but unfortunately you've also been no help at all in that the
> stuff you've pointed at doesn't work ...
> 
> Where do I go from here ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

I don't think systemd is different (although I don't use it with Gentoo), 
unless you want to launch a Display Manager like e.g. sddm.

Given your error, you appear to not have installed the requisite packages for 
the Plasma/KDE.  It should have been installed as a dependency of plasma-
workspace:

$ qfile startplasma-wayland
kde-plasma/plasma-workspace: /usr/bin/startplasma-wayland

If you have Gnome already installed then you can use the stanza for gnome-
session instead. 

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 25/06/2021 09:46, Michael wrote:

On Friday, 25 June 2021 08:50:32 BST antlists wrote:

On 23/06/2021 10:11, jdm wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100

Michael  wrote:

On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:

What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?

I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.

Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
*helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
anything with the system...)

I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
and install two packages".

Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
it up, please ...

Cheers,
Wol


Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
with them is a black screen.

Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland

or

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session


There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
very reliable.

Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape


Thanks, but I'm none the wiser ... the thing is, for X the instructions
are simple - "install xorg, run startx".

Okay, I've done that and got errors I need to solve, but with Wayland I
just don't have a clue. I don't know what I need, I don't know how to
start it, all I've got is a pile of bits in a box, and I don't know what
to do with them.

Everything I find is like a meccano set - there's loads of bits and
pieces, but no instructions, and I don't have a clue how they fit
together. Where's the recipe that says "do this this and this and you
should have a gui"?

Cheers,
Wol


 From what I recall as long as you set USE="wayland" globally and re-emerge
world with '--changed-use' you should able to launch your dekstop in wayland,
rather than Xserver.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland

There is a caveat, to make things simple: your desktop environment should have
full support for wayland compositing - e.g. Plasma and Gnome come ready baked
with their own compositor and will run in Wayland.  Window managers which do
not possess a compositor will require one installed separately, as noted in
jdm's post, but then we're getting into a box with a pile of bits in it.

To launch wayland you can either install a Display Manager and select to start
wayland from its GUI options, instead of X11, or you can run the stanzas I
provided above.


Bear in mind my profile is desktop/plasma/systemd ...

This is very informative, but it blows up on me ... I've checked that 
wayland is in my use flags so that should all be okay ...


# XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
... startplasma-wayland not found ...

# emerge qtgreet
emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "qtgreet".

So you've massively helped in that I now know much better how things fit 
together, but unfortunately you've also been no help at all in that the 
stuff you've pointed at doesn't work ...


Where do I go from here ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Friday, 25 June 2021 08:50:32 BST antlists wrote:
> On 23/06/2021 10:11, jdm wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100
> > 
> > Michael  wrote:
> >> On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> >>> What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?
> >>> 
> >>> I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
> >>> login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
> >>> seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.
> >>> 
> >>> Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
> >>> *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
> >>> anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
> >>> maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
> >>> anything with the system...)
> >>> 
> >>> I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
> >>> and install two packages".
> >>> 
> >>> Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
> >>> it up, please ...
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Wol
> >> 
> >> Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
> >> work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
> >> with them is a black screen.
> >> 
> >> Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
> >> 
> >> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
> >> 
> >> or
> >> 
> >> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session
> > 
> > There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
> > be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
> > it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
> > very reliable.
> > 
> > Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape
> 
> Thanks, but I'm none the wiser ... the thing is, for X the instructions
> are simple - "install xorg, run startx".
> 
> Okay, I've done that and got errors I need to solve, but with Wayland I
> just don't have a clue. I don't know what I need, I don't know how to
> start it, all I've got is a pile of bits in a box, and I don't know what
> to do with them.
> 
> Everything I find is like a meccano set - there's loads of bits and
> pieces, but no instructions, and I don't have a clue how they fit
> together. Where's the recipe that says "do this this and this and you
> should have a gui"?
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

>From what I recall as long as you set USE="wayland" globally and re-emerge 
world with '--changed-use' you should able to launch your dekstop in wayland, 
rather than Xserver.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland

There is a caveat, to make things simple: your desktop environment should have 
full support for wayland compositing - e.g. Plasma and Gnome come ready baked 
with their own compositor and will run in Wayland.  Window managers which do 
not possess a compositor will require one installed separately, as noted in 
jdm's post, but then we're getting into a box with a pile of bits in it.

To launch wayland you can either install a Display Manager and select to start 
wayland from its GUI options, instead of X11, or you can run the stanzas I 
provided above.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[antlists]

On 23/06/2021 10:11, jdm wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100
Michael  wrote:


On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:

What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?

I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.

Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
*helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
anything with the system...)

I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
and install two packages".

Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
it up, please ...

Cheers,
Wol


Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
with them is a black screen.

Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland

or

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session


There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
very reliable.

Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape

Thanks, but I'm none the wiser ... the thing is, for X the instructions 
are simple - "install xorg, run startx".


Okay, I've done that and got errors I need to solve, but with Wayland I 
just don't have a clue. I don't know what I need, I don't know how to 
start it, all I've got is a pile of bits in a box, and I don't know what 
to do with them.


Everything I find is like a meccano set - there's loads of bits and 
pieces, but no instructions, and I don't have a clue how they fit 
together. Where's the recipe that says "do this this and this and you 
should have a gui"?


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[jdm]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:17:41 +0100
Michael  wrote:

> On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> > What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?
> > 
> > I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
> > login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I
> > seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.
> > 
> > Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
> > *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
> > anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to
> > maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO
> > anything with the system...)
> > 
> > I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag
> > and install two packages".
> > 
> > Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set
> > it up, please ...
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol  
> 
> Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't
> work with Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get
> with them is a black screen.
> 
> Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:
> 
> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
> 
> or 
> 
> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session

There is a wayland greeter which uses greetd and gtkgreet which may
be worth looking at and there is a gentoo wiki which goes a long with
it. It works with wayfire which is a nice wayland window manager and is
very reliable.

Also look at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wayland_Desktop_Landscape

John 

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login

[Michael]

On Monday, 21 June 2021 17:27:31 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> What happens when you get to the end of the handbook?
> 
> I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical
> login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I seem to
> remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff.
> 
> Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the
> *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at
> anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to maintain
> your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO anything with the
> system...)
> 
> I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag and
> install two packages".
> 
> Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set it
> up, please ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Have you tried using a Display Manager?  Some of my systems won't work with 
Wayland, but I haven't spent time to find out why all I get with them is a 
black screen.

Anyway, from a VT you'd run something like:

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland

or 

XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session


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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - root is mounted read-only

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:55:32 +0100, Wols Lists wrote:

> I've started tackling my new build again, and when it boots root is
> read-only. Hopefully I've just missed something stupid, but how to I get
> it to transition read-write?
> 
> System is grub, systemd, and root is an lv ...
> 
> Do I need to do anything special with the initrd? Manually remounting
> fixes it fine as far as I can tell.

What are you using to build the initrd? What is in fstab? What kernel
options are you using, /proc/cmdline?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Employ teenagers - while they know everything.


pgpTD7YzfFHaN.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New install - root is mounted read-only

[tastytea]

On 2021-06-18 10:55+0100 Wols Lists  wrote:

> I've started tackling my new build again, and when it boots root is
> read-only. Hopefully I've just missed something stupid, but how to I
> get it to transition read-write?
> 
> System is grub, systemd, and root is an lv ...
> 
> Do I need to do anything special with the initrd? Manually remounting
> fixes it fine as far as I can tell.

Do you use a custom initrd? The kernel usually mounts / ro at first and
the initrd remounts it with `mount -o remount,rw /` later.
You can also mount / rw from the beginning by specifying “rw” instead of
“ro” on the kernel commandline¹. The current kernel commandline is
visible in /proc/cmdline.

Kind regards, tastytea

¹ 

-- 
Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tasty...@tastytea.de` or at
.


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Re: [gentoo-user] New install - root is mounted read-only

[Adam Carter]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 7:15 PM Wols Lists  wrote:

> I've started tackling my new build again, and when it boots root is
> read-only. Hopefully I've just missed something stupid, but how to I get
> it to transition read-write?
>

Weird - here's my fstab and dmesg entries if you want to compare;
# 
/dev/nvme0n1p1 /boot vfat noauto 1 2
/dev/nvme0n1p2 / ext4 noatime 0 1

dmesg | grep -i mount
[0.204991] Mount-cache hash table entries: 131072 (order: 8, 1048576
bytes, linear)
[0.205069] Mountpoint-cache hash table entries: 131072 (order: 8,
1048576 bytes, linear)
[2.390990] EXT4-fs (nvme0n1p2): mounted filesystem with ordered data
mode. Opts: (null). Quota mode: none.
[2.391735] VFS: Mounted root (ext4 filesystem) readonly on device 259:2.
[2.392955] devtmpfs: mounted
[2.660857] systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Arbitrary Executable
File Formats File System Automount Point being skipped.
[2.691123] systemd[1]: Mounting Huge Pages File System...
[2.695813] systemd[1]: Mounting Kernel Debug File System...
[2.699613] systemd[1]: Mounting Kernel Trace File System...
[2.703758] systemd[1]: Mounting Temporary Directory (/tmp)...
[2.739488] systemd[1]: Mounted Huge Pages File System.
[2.741924] systemd[1]: Mounted Kernel Debug File System.
[2.744313] systemd[1]: Mounted Kernel Trace File System.
[2.746582] systemd[1]: Mounted Temporary Directory (/tmp).
[2.776402] systemd[1]: Mounting FUSE Control File System...
[2.782926] systemd[1]: Mounting Kernel Configuration File System...
[2.787158] systemd[1]: Starting Remount Root and Kernel File Systems...
[2.794343] systemd[1]: Mounted FUSE Control File System.
[2.796604] systemd[1]: Mounted Kernel Configuration File System.
[2.796823] EXT4-fs (nvme0n1p2): re-mounted. Opts: (null). Quota mode:
none.
[2.803599] systemd[1]: Finished Remount Root and Kernel File Systems.
[2.845843] systemd[1]: Set up automount mnt-backup.automount.
[2.848547] systemd[1]: Set up automount mnt-public.automount.

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[antlists]

On 10/12/2020 21:18, n952162 wrote:


On 12/10/20 7:18 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM n952162  wrote:

I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
on it?

Is the CPU going to be the same?  The responses already cover the
mainboard itself well.  If the CPU could change then you need to check
your -march in CFLAGS for compatibility (if you set it) and
potentially rebuild anything you don't want to break.



How would I do that?  Would I have to set up a cross-compiler toolchain?


I don't remember the details, but what I'd do is set the CPU to 
something basic like x86_64. Then do an "emerge -e system", so at least 
enough is there to guarantee your system will boot.


Then, if the new system does fail to get beyond the basic command line, 
you can change the CPU back to native, do an "emerge -e world", and you 
should have your system back.


Bit of a long-winded hassle, but it should work ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[n952162]

Thank you (all).

On 12/10/20 10:53 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 4:18 PM n952162  wrote:

On 12/10/20 7:18 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM n952162  wrote:

I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
on it?

Is the CPU going to be the same?  The responses already cover the
mainboard itself well.  If the CPU could change then you need to check
your -march in CFLAGS for compatibility (if you set it) and
potentially rebuild anything you don't want to break.


How would I do that?  Would I have to set up a cross-compiler toolchain?

Nope, just remove -march from your CFLAGS (maybe change it to -mtune)
and emerge -e @world (or @system if you don't care if non-system
packages are broken on the new system).

It is only necessary if you're switching CPUs.  If you're using -march
then your binaries are not guaranteed to run on ANY CPU other than the
one specified, and you'd be surprised how non-backwards-compatible
CPUs can be.  With gcc the -march option tells the compiler that it
can use any instruction it can to optimize things, including ones that
are very uncommon on other CPU models.  -mtune makes optimizations but
the code will run on any CPU for that architecture.

You can try to find a least-common-denominator CPU but it usually
isn't worth the hassle.

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Miles Malone]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 01:49, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>
>
> Personally, however, I tend to use a new system as an excuse to clean up my
> install and start from scratch. Especially as I always tend to pass my old
> system on to a family member or friend.
>

It's also an excellent opportunity to do a once in five year git
commit of all your dotfiles :)

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 4:18 PM n952162  wrote:
>
> On 12/10/20 7:18 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM n952162  wrote:
> >> I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
> >> on it?
> > Is the CPU going to be the same?  The responses already cover the
> > mainboard itself well.  If the CPU could change then you need to check
> > your -march in CFLAGS for compatibility (if you set it) and
> > potentially rebuild anything you don't want to break.
> >
>
> How would I do that?  Would I have to set up a cross-compiler toolchain?

Nope, just remove -march from your CFLAGS (maybe change it to -mtune)
and emerge -e @world (or @system if you don't care if non-system
packages are broken on the new system).

It is only necessary if you're switching CPUs.  If you're using -march
then your binaries are not guaranteed to run on ANY CPU other than the
one specified, and you'd be surprised how non-backwards-compatible
CPUs can be.  With gcc the -march option tells the compiler that it
can use any instruction it can to optimize things, including ones that
are very uncommon on other CPU models.  -mtune makes optimizations but
the code will run on any CPU for that architecture.

You can try to find a least-common-denominator CPU but it usually
isn't worth the hassle.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[n952162]

On 12/10/20 7:18 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM n952162  wrote:

I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
on it?

Is the CPU going to be the same?  The responses already cover the
mainboard itself well.  If the CPU could change then you need to check
your -march in CFLAGS for compatibility (if you set it) and
potentially rebuild anything you don't want to break.



How would I do that?  Would I have to set up a cross-compiler toolchain?

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM n952162  wrote:
>
> I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
> on it?

Is the CPU going to be the same?  The responses already cover the
mainboard itself well.  If the CPU could change then you need to check
your -march in CFLAGS for compatibility (if you set it) and
potentially rebuild anything you don't want to break.

-- 
Rich

RE: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Raffaele BELARDI]

> -Original Message-
> From: n952162 
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 16:23
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?
> 
> I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system on it?
> 
> If it would come up, what would need to be (re)emerged, as a minimum?

Before switching to the new board I'd check the USB controller and possibly the 
video controller of the new board and if required build a kernel with those 
modules ready for the swap. Other than that you might want to check that both 
mainboards are configured for the same boot system (UEFI vs MBR).

You might get a kernel panic if you don't arrange the SATA cables as they were 
on the old board - unless you were already using UUID or similar in the 
bootloader.

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On Thu, 2020-12-10 at 16:49 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> I tend to use a new system as an excuse to clean up my install and start from 
> scratch.

Same here.  Especially because I only upgrade workstations every 6-8
years.

I'll keep my world file and cherry-pick stuff from /etc/portage but
laregely just rebuild anew.

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:23:09 PM CET n952162 wrote:
> I need a new mainboard.  What will happen if I boot my existing system
> on it?
> 
> If it would come up, what would need to be (re)emerged, as a minimum?
> 
> TIA

Unless you really reduced the drivers available on your system or you're going 
to a lesser system (64 -> 32bit, or something like that), I would expect the 
system to simply boot.
If not, you only need a live-cd/usb/... and rebuild the kernel and any drivers 
your new system needs.

It's not MS Windows that might try to load incompatible drivers and ends up 
with a blue-screen.

Personally, however, I tend to use a new system as an excuse to clean up my 
install and start from scratch. Especially as I always tend to pass my old 
system on to a family member or friend.

Re: [gentoo-user] new install for a new mainboard?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On Thu, 2020-12-10 at 16:23 +0100, n952162 wrote:
> What will happen if I boot my existing system on it?

Best case, it boots and has some minor issues to work through.

Worst case, it doesn't boot at all.

> If it would come up, what would need to be (re)emerged, as a minimum?

If you're building a kernel yourself from gentoo-sources, you'll most
likely need to review that kernel configuration and add support for new
hardware, optionally disabling support for old hardware.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install .. no high res console during boot.

[Corbin Bird]

On 01/31/2018 07:38 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Setup:
> Installing gentoo-17 as guest in Vbox vm on solaris-11 HOST 
>(openindiana (powered by Illumos))
>
> VBox 5.6.2
> Kernel-4.15.0
> grub2
>
> I'm a litte confused about how to enable a high res framebuffer
> console.
>
> At gentoo pages:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Xorg/Guide#Kernel_modesetting
>
> I've followed the directions there as far as I could.
>
> lspci on a chroot does not show a driver for the:
>   Innotek Systemberatung Gmbh VirtualBox Graphics Adapter.
>
> And I find nothing about Innotek searching with '/' in menuconfig.
> So could not make any specific settings like those shows on the gentoo
> wiki pages for nVidia and AND/ATI
>
> Other pages such as https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Fbsplash seem to
> indicate I would need to create an initramfs.
>
> The first page cited near the top of post .. tells you NOT to set some
> of the things the citation containing fbsplash (above) tell you to set.
>
> Such as  <*> Userspace VESA VGA
>  [*] Vesa VGA
>
> Is something outdate in one of those pages?
>
> Can someone using the kernel framebuffer explain how to do it on
> gentoo guest of vm?
>
>
>
.
Searched for that "device" and found a few interesting links:
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/435940/do-i-need-linux-drivers-for-virtual-box
> https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch04.html
.
If Linux has no access to the actual hardware ... the old "VGA=" hex
codes might work :
> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/lilo-vga-modes-152575/
I have never tried the codes on "Userspace VESA VGA".
Might want to leave that out for a test run.

.
Corbin 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
> desktop. I said it gets
> to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
> Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

I would suggest posting a bit more detail.  For example, if you're
following the handbook please indicate the last section you completed
before you got stuck, and provide specific details on what is going
wrong (error message, etc).  I think that will make it much easier for
those trying to follow along.  There are a couple of steps that
involve compiling something so it isn't obvious from your description
where you're getting stuck.  The more specific the description of the
problem, the more likely you are to get a specific answer.  A few of
us have probably personally experienced just about everything that can
go wrong with a Gentoo install, so it is just a matter of identifying
where you're getting stuck...

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Neil, 
> There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
> desktop. I said it gets
> to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
> Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

Either way, what you said is not correct.  As I posted in another reply,
the media doesn't compile anything to get to a GUI or desktop. 
Actually, it doesn't compile anything at all.  It only boots and gives
you a command prompt which is all you need to start installing Gentoo. 
So far, the very first reply Neil gave seems to be the most accurate
advice.  Based on the very limited info you have provided, it seems you
have not even started the install process.  You think you have but you
have only booted the media and not much else beyond that. 

Several of us are trying to help you with this process but you are not
helping yourself by responding to only a few messages with info that is
either wrong or has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem.  I posted
a reply hours ago asking some questions about what you have done and if
you recall doing them.  You seem to have ignored that message
completely.  If you can't answer our questions so that we can figure out
just where in the process you are, then we can't help you. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Neil, 
There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
desktop. I said it gets
to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

 n Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 7:15 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 22:42:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 >  I appreciate this reply. I did assume
 that after I booted the minimal
 > install
 and the files compiled I could get to a graphic desktop.
 That
 > is what happens with the Live DVD,
 in spite of the fact that Neil sees
 > no
 difference bewteen the two.
 
 Thank you for that clarification. I always
 appreciate being told what I
 think by
 someone who doesn't know me.
 
 The Live DVD does not compile a graphic
 desktop, it does not know which
 one you
 want. It may boot to a graphic desktop but that is a
 completely
 different thing and has no
 bearing on the installation process.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil
 Bothwick
 
 Justify my text?
 I'm sorry but it has no excuse.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:37:55 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> >Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk
> >for
> >seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive
> >amount
> >of rose tinting? ;-)  
> 
> I actually don't remember that rule. But when simply following the
> netiquette guidelines, it was really simple to get quick, friendly and
> helpful responses.

It was part of netiquette, at least in the areas of usenet that I
inhabited, that you lurked for seven days after joining a group and only
posted once you were aware of the conventions and people involved.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:42:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

>  I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal
> install and the files compiled I could get to a graphic desktop. That
> is what happens with the Live DVD, in spite of the fact that Neil sees
> no difference bewteen the two.

Thank you for that clarification. I always appreciate being told what I
think by someone who doesn't know me.

The Live DVD does not compile a graphic desktop, it does not know which
one you want. It may boot to a graphic desktop but that is a completely
different thing and has no bearing on the installation process.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Justify my text? I'm sorry but it has no excuse.


pgp8M56AA2i1d.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>  I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal 
> install and the files compiled
> I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live DVD, in 
> spite of the fact that 
> Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there is no 
> installer. The password/
> user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal install and 
> the Live DVD.
> My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to run 
> whereas the Live DVD
> did not.
>
>

I'm not real sure what you are replying to at this point.  This message
starts a new thread and the quote and what you are posting doesn't
exactly match up.  Moving on.

First, the media, whatever you use, doesn't compile anything.  It just
boots the computer and gives you a prompt.  If you want a GUI, OK, it
works but it is by no means needed since it doesn't install anything
from the media anyway.   To me, a GUI just gets in the way.  Installing
Gentoo requires a command prompt not a GUI.  By the way, GUI and desktop
is basically the same thing. 

Second, when you boot the media, whatever media you use, you still have
to do the install the same way. 

Third, the only reason I can think of that you would need to set a
password on the media is if you plan to ssh into the system and install
it over that.  I know here, the only password or user info I set is when
I'm in the chroot for the new install, and close to the end of the
install at that.  So, once again, Neil is right.  Whether you are using
a minimal media or the live version, you still have to do the same
things to install Gentoo.  There is no easy way to install Gentoo.  They
tried a installer, I even tested it a couple times, but it didn't last
long.  I might add, I never got it to work here.  I wouldn't recommend
using it even if they did have one. 

Since at this point I don't think any of us have a real clue as to where
you are, I'd recommend starting over.  Boot the media and then start
there in the guide.  Follow that guide step by step.  If you get to
something that doesn't match your hardware or fails for some reason,
post here with as much info as you can.  When I say as much as you can,
anything relevant. 

That's my $0.02 worth. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:42:00 AM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 6:25 PM
> 
> On September 25, 2016
> 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham <s...@gmx.us> wrote:
> >On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +,
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> On September
> 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
> ><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:Joost,
>
>I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal
>install and the files compiled
>I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live
>DVD, in spite of the fact that 
>Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there
>is no installer. The password/
>user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal
>install and the Live DVD.
>My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to
>run whereas the Live DVD
>did not.
>
>
> >> >Joost you should not be
> responding to people seeking help. Your
> >> >attititude is offensive.
> >> 
> >> Please do
> enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding
> to
> >is offensive?
> >
> >
> >I'd just like to
> take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
> >list, from whom I have learned much over
> the last few years, for
> >showing
> >what is, in my opinion, great restraint and
> civility towards the OP. 
> >If
> >he had walked into *my house* and
> immediately began chastising the
> >locals
> and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not
> have
> >been able to be so charitable. 
> Well done, chaps!
> 
> 
> Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading
> to politics and immigration. :)
> (Sorry, too
> much of that going on in the world)
> 
> I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay
> civil. It might also help in solving the actual issue the OP
> is having.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> --
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> 

If you want to install Gentoo. Go back to the first reply, by Neil, and follow 
the handbook.

When you encounter problems, please point to the part of the handbook you are 
stuck with.

Please also include information on any choices you made along the way and any 
deviations from the handbook until the point you are stuck with.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 6:25 PM
 
 On September 25, 2016
 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham <s...@gmx.us> wrote:
 >On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +,
 J. Roeleveld wrote:
 >> On September
 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
 ><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:Joost,

 I appreciate this reply. I did assume that after I booted the minimal install 
and the files compiled
I could get to a graphic desktop. That is what happens with the Live DVD, in 
spite of the fact that 
Neil sees no difference bewteen the two. II now understand that there is no 
installer. The password/
user again was based on a mistaken similarity between the minimal install and 
the Live DVD.
My thinking was that the minimal install required a password/user to run 
whereas the Live DVD
did not.


 >> >Joost you should not be
 responding to people seeking help. Your
 >> >attititude is offensive.
 >> 
 >> Please do
 enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding
 to
 >is offensive?
 >
 >
 >I'd just like to
 take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
 >list, from whom I have learned much over
 the last few years, for
 >showing
 >what is, in my opinion, great restraint and
 civility towards the OP. 
 >If
 >he had walked into *my house* and
 immediately began chastising the
 >locals
 and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not
 have
 >been able to be so charitable. 
 Well done, chaps!
 
 
 Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading
 to politics and immigration. :)
 (Sorry, too
 much of that going on in the world)
 
 I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay
 civil. It might also help in solving the actual issue the OP
 is having.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 --
 
 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
 Please excuse my brevity.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:30:42 AM GMT+02:00, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:42:23 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>> Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>> attititude is offensive. Joachim and Rich have made positive
>> suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but today is my first day on
>the
>> list.
>
>Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk
>for
>seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive
>amount
>of rose tinting? ;-)

I actually don't remember that rule. But when simply following the netiquette 
guidelines, it was really simple to get quick, friendly and helpful responses.

I always bottom post in my emails.
Only exception being when using work email. And that is because there people 
tend to not understand it at all and stop reading as soon as they see any 
quoted part of the email.

There, I accept it as I am being paid.

Here, I expect common courtesy in following the status quo as it is on a 
voluntary basis.

Why are more and more people expecting to be able to act in a non civil manner 
and still get high quality support without paying for it?

--
Joost


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 21:42:23 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
> attititude is offensive. Joachim and Rich have made positive
> suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but today is my first day on the
> list.

Does anyone else yearn for the good old days of usenet and the "lurk for
seven days" rule? Or did my laser eye surgery involve an excessive amount
of rose tinting? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This universe is sold by mass, not by volume.
Some expansion may have occurred during shipment


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:10:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dutch Ingraham  wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
> wrote:
>> >Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>> >attititude is offensive.
>> 
>> Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to
>is offensive?
>
>
>I'd just like to take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
>list, from whom I have learned much over the last few years, for
>showing
>what is, in my opinion, great restraint and civility towards the OP. 
>If
>he had walked into *my house* and immediately began chastising the
>locals and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not have
>been able to be so charitable.  Well done, chaps!


Not going to fall into the obvious trap leading to politics and immigration. :)
(Sorry, too much of that going on in the world)

I actually find it's a lot more fun to stay civil. It might also help in 
solving the actual issue the OP is having.

--
Joost

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:43:58 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE
> DVD as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point
> which you missed in jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 

I know you mentioned a specific CD, I just typed XXX to save going back
through the broken threads to find the actual disc you referred to.
However it should be clear that my initial response was relevant to the
disc you mentioned as I quoted that particular question, and nothing
else, n my initial response.

I offered advice to you, which you were free to accept, reject or to
respond to with abuse. Based on your choice, you will be pleased  to know
that I won't be wasting any more of my time or yours by responding
further.

> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > You are giving a generic  
>  answer to what you see as a generic question.
>  > I really can't  play 20 questions by  
>  repeating over until the light
>  > comes  
>  on.
>  
>  I'm sorry, but
>  "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
>  question.
>  
>  The more specific
>  and detailed the question, the more specific and
>  detailed the answers. But the response was
>  given freely and it's entirely
>  up to you
>  what you do with it.
>  
>  
>  ----------------
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>  
>  wrote:
>  > 
>  >  Subject:  
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21  
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  On Sat, 24  
>  Sep 2016
>  >  15:05:24 + (UTC),  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  >  
>  >  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  >  not helpful. I have read through the  
>  the
>  >  > handbook and the directions  
>  there do not  
>  >  match the screen  
>  results.
>  >  
>  >   
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  >  that.
>  >  
>  >  > I
>  >  > take  
>  offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  >   
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  >  
>  >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  >  
>  >  > help.While  
>  those with  
>  >  experience may find my  
>  request naive, I went to
>  >  > the  
>  list for suggestions beyond the  
>  >   
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  > 
>  >  
>  >  parts of my question in your  
>  smackdown.
>  >  
>  >   
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  >  you asked two separate
>  >  questions. I only
>  >   
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  >  one.
>  >  
>  >  As has
>  >  been  
>  mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  >  a
>  >  step. The point  
>  I was trying to make is
>  >  that it is  
>  important to follow
>  >  the handbook
>  >  carefully, so the advice was to read it  
>  fully before
>  >  attempting to follow it.  
>  Reading it and
>  >  following it at the  
>  same time is
>  >  asking for
>  >  trouble.
>  >  
>  >  Experience has
>  >   
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  >  problems are caused by a failure to  
>  follow the
>  >  handbook correctly.
>  >  Sometimes this is caused
>  >  by someone thinking they know better and  
>  taking
>  >  a shortcut but more often it  
>  is simply a
>  >  moaater of a mistake  
>  or
>  >  misunderstanding
>  >  somewhere.
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  > Sorry  
>  >  for the annoyance and
>  >  > possibleviolation  
>  >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit  
>  more support. 
>  >  > 
>  >  >     On  
>  >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,  
>  Neil Bothwick
>  >  > <n...@digimed.co.uk>   
>  
>  >  wrote: 
>  >  >  
>  
>  >  >  On Sat,  
>  >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),  
>  Christopher Robinson
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >   
>  >  > > Also,  
>  >  I read that it is possible to install  
>  Gentoo from the
>  >  Live
>  >  > > DVD.How do I do  
>  that?
>  >  > 
>  >  > You need to read  
>  >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from  
>  start to finish,
>  >  > then read it  
>  again. When you understand  
>  >  what is  
>  going on, you then boot
>  >  > from   
>  
>  >  the live DVD and follow the  
>  installation instructions fro
>  >  the
>  >  > handbook.
>  > 
>  > 
>  >  >   
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  -- 
>  >  Neil  
>  Bothwick
>  >  
>  >  I  
>  distinctly remember forgetting
>  >  that.
>  >   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  Never sleep with anyone crazier than
>  yourself.
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

The thrill of victory, the agony of delete.


pgp5qPWTCrPBZ.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 12:14:03 AM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>I was not referring to screenshots as you well know but the unwarranted
>commnets at the end

Actually, the email you replied to only referenced the screenshots and the 
inherent risks with regards to pointing inexperienced people to them.

We can keep debating this for a very long time if you want. But that will not 
help the issue you are clearly facing and which led you to post a rather 
cryptic message to this list. And following up on replies with further cryptic 
and incomplete information.

Why don't you answer my other emails.

And to make it easier for everyone to follow, it is not difficult to bottom 
post using yahoo mail.
Simply write your answer below the part you are replying to.



>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:59 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
>11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> >If I got paid for every person I
> had to enlighten about their snarky
> >comments, I could retire 
> >myself
> 
> You
> are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of
> understanding about humanity.
> 
> I was simply pointing out that screenshots are
> not the most useful tool i  describing a process that is
> subject to fast changes. Especially as most people tend to
> expect the screenshots to match reality.
> 
> If you think most people will understand that
> screenshots don't necessarily match what is displayed on
> screen and can easily adapt, you are either very young or
> have been living under a rock.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> 
> >------------
> >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49
> PM
> > 
> > On September
> 24, 2016
> >11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00,
> Christopher Robinson
> ><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >Joost you
> should not be
> > responding to people
> seeking help. Your
> > >attititude is
> offensive.
> > 
> > Please
> do enlighten us. What
> > part of the email
> you are responding to is offensive?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> >
> > >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > Re:
> [gentoo-user] New Install
> > > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016,
> 5:36
> > PM
> > > 
> > > On September
> > 24,
> 2016
> > > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00,
> Joachim
> > Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >On 25 Sep
> > 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> > > "Dale"
> >
> <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >>
> > > >> J.
> > > Roeleveld
> >
> wrote:
> > > >> > On
> September
> > > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM
> GMT+02:00, Dale
> > > ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> >>
> > >>
> >
> > Well, you said you hadn't
> > set
> up any users and their
> > >
> passwords.
> > 
> > >
> >That
> > > >>
> > >> is
> > >
> >>
> > > >> part of the
> install process and
> > is in the
> guide. 
> > > You are told to
> > > >set
> > >
> >>
> > >> up
> > > >>
> > >
> >> the root password in one section
> > and to set up a
> > >
> user and its
> > > >password
> > > >>
> >
> >> in another section.  At the
> >
> >
> > very least, you missed those two
> parts
> > >
> >
> >and
> > > >> >> that
> > > isn't a assumption, it's
> based on
> > what you posted. 
> > > What else
> > >
> >you
> > > >>
> > > >> missed I'm not sure and
> most
> > likely, no one
> > > else is either. 
> > Rich
> > > >>
> >>
> > > posted
> > > >>
> >
> >>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

I was not referring to screenshots as you well know but the unwarranted 
commnets at the end

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:59 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:
 >If I got paid for every person I
 had to enlighten about their snarky
 >comments, I could retire 
 >myself
 
 You
 are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of
 understanding about humanity.
 
 I was simply pointing out that screenshots are
 not the most useful tool i  describing a process that is
 subject to fast changes. Especially as most people tend to
 expect the screenshots to match reality.
 
 If you think most people will understand that
 screenshots don't necessarily match what is displayed on
 screen and can easily adapt, you are either very young or
 have been living under a rock.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 
 >
 >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
 wrote:
 >
 > Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49
 PM
 > 
 > On September
 24, 2016
 >11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00,
 Christopher Robinson
 ><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 > wrote:
 > >Joost you
 should not be
 > responding to people
 seeking help. Your
 > >attititude is
 offensive.
 > 
 > Please
 do enlighten us. What
 > part of the email
 you are responding to is offensive?
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >
 >------------
 > >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
 > wrote:
 > >
 > > Subject:
 > Re:
 [gentoo-user] New Install
 > > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016,
 5:36
 > PM
 > > 
 > > On September
 > 24,
 2016
 > > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00,
 Joachim
 > Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
 > > wrote:
 > >
 >On 25 Sep
 > 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 > > "Dale"
 >
 <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 > > wrote:
 > >
 >>
 > > >> J.
 > > Roeleveld
 >
 wrote:
 > > >> > On
 September
 > > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM
 GMT+02:00, Dale
 > > ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 > > >wrote:
 > >
 >>
 > >>
 >
 > Well, you said you hadn't
 > set
 up any users and their
 > >
 passwords.
 > 
 > >
 >That
 > > >>
 > >> is
 > >
 >>
 > > >> part of the
 install process and
 > is in the
 guide. 
 > > You are told to
 > > >set
 > >
 >>
 > >> up
 > > >>
 > >
 >> the root password in one section
 > and to set up a
 > >
 user and its
 > > >password
 > > >>
 >
 >> in another section.  At the
 >
 >
 > very least, you missed those two
 parts
 > >
 >
 >and
 > > >> >> that
 > > isn't a assumption, it's
 based on
 > what you posted. 
 > > What else
 > >
 >you
 > > >>
 > > >> missed I'm not sure and
 most
 > likely, no one
 > > else is either. 
 > Rich
 > > >>
 >>
 > > posted
 > > >>
 >
 >> that he thinks you
 > > missed
 a
 > whole section which may or may not
 be
 > >
 > >>
 >> correct but we do know you
 >
 > missed at least a couple steps  Given
 > > >enough
 > >
 >>
 > >>
 >
 > information, someone may be
 > able
 to figure it out tho.
 > > >>
 > > Dale,
 > >
 >>
 > > >
 >
 > >> >
 > You should know
 better.
 > > Please
 > don't make it worse by top-posting
 > >
 > >even
 > > >more.
 >
 >
 > >> >
 >
 > >> >
 > > >From what I
 understand from this
 > nightmare of a
 messy
 > > thread, the
 > > >OP
 > >
 >seems
 > > to be looking for an
 > install-script/tool.
 >
 > >> > This
 > does not exist
 other than
 > > the simple to
 > follow handbook.
 > >
 >>
 > > >
 >
 > >> >
 > --
 > > >> > Joost
 > > >>
 > >
 >
 > > >> >
 > >
 > >>
 > > >> Well, as you
 > > know, I never top post unless it is a
 new
 > person that
 >
 > >> starts it.  The
 > only
 reason I do it
 > > then is because
 > most likely the
 > >
 >>
 > > person on

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 09:49:07PM +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
>  wrote:
> >Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
> >attititude is offensive.
> 
> Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to is 
> offensive?


I'd just like to take a moment and commend the regular posters to this
list, from whom I have learned much over the last few years, for showing
what is, in my opinion, great restraint and civility towards the OP.  If
he had walked into *my house* and immediately began chastising the
locals and lecturing them on how they should act, well, I may not have
been able to be so charitable.  Well done, chaps!

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Tom H]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
>
> Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.

Is this necessary?!

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:53:05 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>If I got paid for every person I had to enlighten about their snarky
>comments, I could retire 
>myself

You are either trying to be funny or have an obvious lack of understanding 
about humanity.

I was simply pointing out that screenshots are not the most useful tool i  
describing a process that is subject to fast changes. Especially as most people 
tend to expect the screenshots to match reality.

If you think most people will understand that screenshots don't necessarily 
match what is displayed on screen and can easily adapt, you are either very 
young or have been living under a rock.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
>11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson
><chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Joost you should not be
> responding to people seeking help. Your
> >attititude is offensive.
> 
> Please do enlighten us. What
> part of the email you are responding to is offensive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >----------------
> >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36
> PM
> > 
> > On September
> 24, 2016
> > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim
> Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On 25 Sep
> 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> > "Dale"
> <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> J.
> > Roeleveld
> wrote:
> > >> > On September
> > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> > ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> > >wrote:
> > >>
> >>
> > Well, you said you hadn't
> set up any users and their
> > passwords.
> 
> > >That
> > >>
> >> is
> > >>
> > >> part of the install process and
> is in the guide. 
> > You are told to
> > >set
> > >>
> >> up
> > >>
> > >> the root password in one section
> and to set up a
> > user and its
> > >password
> > >>
> >> in another section.  At the
> >
> very least, you missed those two parts
> >
> >and
> > >> >> that
> > isn't a assumption, it's based on
> what you posted. 
> > What else
> > >you
> > >>
> > >> missed I'm not sure and most
> likely, no one
> > else is either. 
> Rich
> > >> >>
> > posted
> > >>
> >> that he thinks you
> > missed a
> whole section which may or may not be
> >
> >> >> correct but we do know you
> > missed at least a couple steps  Given
> > >enough
> > >>
> >>
> > information, someone may be
> able to figure it out tho.
> > >>
> > Dale,
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> You should know better.
> > Please
> don't make it worse by top-posting
> >
> >even
> > >more.
> >
> >> >
> > >> >
> > >From what I understand from this
> nightmare of a messy
> > thread, the
> > >OP
> > >seems
> > to be looking for an
> install-script/tool.
> > >> > This
> does not exist other than
> > the simple to
> follow handbook.
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> --
> > >> > Joost
> > >>
> > >
> > >> >
> >
> >>
> > >> Well, as you
> > know, I never top post unless it is a new
> person that
> > >> starts it.  The
> only reason I do it
> > then is because
> most likely the
> > >>
> > person on the other end has no choice but
> too.  It's
> > likely why no
> > >one
> > >> has
> mentioned this.  For all we know,
> > he
> may be doing this with a
> > >>
> limited
> > cell phone.  Who knows.  For
> the normal situations tho,
> > I
> > >bottom
> > >>
> post
> > as you know or do it inline.  I
> will be glad when he gets
> > it
> > >sorted
> > >>
> out
> > and can actually set it up to be
> mailing list frien

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Tom H]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:16:00 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>>> Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
>>> give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
>>> "1. Installing Gentoo".
>>
>> Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?
>
> I couldn't tell you without looking, but I wasn't answering that
> question. I quoted only the part I was answering.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Joachim Gwoke wrote:
>
> On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m., "Dale"  > wrote:
> >
> > J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> > wrote:
> > >> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
> > >> is
> > >> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
> > >> up
> > >> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its
> password
> > >> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two
> parts and
> > >> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What
> else you
> > >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
> > >> posted
> > >> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
> > >> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given
> enough
> > >> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
> > > Dale,
> > >
> > > You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting
> even more.
> > >
> > > >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the
> OP seems to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> > > This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Joost
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
> > starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
> > person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no one
> > has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
> > limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I bottom
> > post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it sorted
> > out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
> > posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow.
> >
> > I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was further
> > into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
> > beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
> > installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us help
> > him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent post,
> > we may be all wrong on where he is in this process.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
> >
>
> Apologies for starting the top posting,
>
> I had earlier suggested using
> http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ and the Gentoo
> handbook side by side.
> The link provided has the option of using the LiveDVD. I do not know
> at what stage the install failed but it might be easier to start over.
>
> Regards
> Joachim
>

I thought it was the OP that top posted first.  Sometimes new folks fall
into a couple areas.  1: Don't know top posting is discouraged.  2: Are
using something that doesn't allow or is difficult to change from top
posting.  I think stuff like cell phones and such fall into that 2nd
one.  Either way, getting Gentoo installed is the more important thing
if the OP is limited on what he can email with.  Once he gets Gentoo
installed, then he can have better options with help setting it up if
needed.

There are tons of media one can use to install Gentoo.  As I think it
was Joost posted, it mostly just needs to be recent.  I took a look at
your link, it may work, it may not.  I always use the official Gentoo
guide because it is very well tested and known to work.  Heck, on a lot
of things, you can copy and paste the commands.  One could certainly use
tab completion a lot. 

At this point, I'm thinking he only made to booting the live media and
for some reason, thinks Gentoo has a installer like other distros.  I'm
not quite sure but it seems Neil's first reply may have been closer to
the point.  Start at chapter 1 and follow it.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

If I got paid for every person I had to enlighten about their snarky comments, 
I could retire 
myself

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:49 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:
 >Joost you should not be
 responding to people seeking help. Your
 >attititude is offensive.
 
 Please do enlighten us. What
 part of the email you are responding to is offensive?
 
 
 
 
 
 >
 >On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org>
 wrote:
 >
 > Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36
 PM
 > 
 > On September
 24, 2016
 > 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim
 Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 > >On 25 Sep
 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 > "Dale"
 <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 > >>
 > >> J.
 > Roeleveld
 wrote:
 > >> > On September
 > 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
 > ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 > >wrote:
 > >>
 >>
 > Well, you said you hadn't
 set up any users and their
 > passwords.
 
 > >That
 > >>
 >> is
 > >>
 > >> part of the install process and
 is in the guide. 
 > You are told to
 > >set
 > >>
 >> up
 > >>
 > >> the root password in one section
 and to set up a
 > user and its
 > >password
 > >>
 >> in another section.  At the
 >
 very least, you missed those two parts
 >
 >and
 > >> >> that
 > isn't a assumption, it's based on
 what you posted. 
 > What else
 > >you
 > >>
 > >> missed I'm not sure and most
 likely, no one
 > else is either. 
 Rich
 > >> >>
 > posted
 > >>
 >> that he thinks you
 > missed a
 whole section which may or may not be
 >
 >> >> correct but we do know you
 > missed at least a couple steps  Given
 > >enough
 > >>
 >>
 > information, someone may be
 able to figure it out tho.
 > >>
 > Dale,
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 You should know better.
 > Please
 don't make it worse by top-posting
 >
 >even
 > >more.
 >
 >> >
 > >> >
 > >From what I understand from this
 nightmare of a messy
 > thread, the
 > >OP
 > >seems
 > to be looking for an
 install-script/tool.
 > >> > This
 does not exist other than
 > the simple to
 follow handbook.
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 --
 > >> > Joost
 > >>
 > >
 > >> >
 >
 >>
 > >> Well, as you
 > know, I never top post unless it is a new
 person that
 > >> starts it.  The
 only reason I do it
 > then is because
 most likely the
 > >>
 > person on the other end has no choice but
 too.  It's
 > likely why no
 > >one
 > >> has
 mentioned this.  For all we know,
 > he
 may be doing this with a
 > >>
 limited
 > cell phone.  Who knows.  For
 the normal situations tho,
 > I
 > >bottom
 > >>
 post
 > as you know or do it inline.  I
 will be glad when he gets
 > it
 > >sorted
 > >>
 out
 > and can actually set it up to be
 mailing list friendly. 
 > Top
 > >> posting, multiple threads and
 > all makes it hard to follow.
 > >>
 > >>
 I'm beginning to think the same
 >
 thing.  Here we thought he was
 >
 >further
 > >> into the
 > install and just missed a few
 steps/section and now
 > I'm
 > >> beginning to think he has
 > only booted the install media and wants
 a
 > >> installer command.  Maybe
 he will
 > post something that will help
 us
 > >help
 >
 >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
 > rough idea but based on a recent
 > >post,
 > >> we
 may be
 > all wrong on where he is in this
 process.
 > >>
 >
 >> Dale
 > >>
 > >> :-)  :-)
 >
 >>
 > >
 >
 >Apologies for starting the top posting,
 > >
 > >I had
 earlier
 > suggested using
 > >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
 > and the Gentoo
 >
 >handbook side by
 > side.
 > >The link provided has the option
 > of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
 > >what stage the install failed but it
 might
 > be easier to start over.
 > >
 > >Regards
 > >Joachim
 > 
 > I had a quick look at that
 > one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the
 old quick install
 > guide, but now with
 screenshots.
 > 
 >
 Screenshots are nice, but are always version
 > dependent.
 > 
 > If I would get a
 >
 penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your
 local
 > currency for every time someone
 is completely incapable of
 > following an
 install guide when only one of the screenshots
 > no longer 100% match the guide, I would
 have already retired
 > to my own little
 island in the Pacific...
 > 
 > The screenshots on that link
 > seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated
 to 2012 and being
 > used to install
 Gentoo in 2014.
 > 
 > I
 expect more confused questions from people
 > who are not able to follow simple
 instructions if they are
 > going to
 blindly follow this.
 > 
 > --
 > Joost
 > 
 > --
 > 
 > Sent from my Android
 device with K-9 Mail.
 > Please excuse my
 brevity.
 > 
 > 
 
 
 -- 
 Sent from
 my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
 brevity.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:42:23 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your
>attititude is offensive.

Please do enlighten us. What part of the email you are responding to is 
offensive?





>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36 PM
> 
> On September 24, 2016
> 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m.,
> "Dale" <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> J.
> Roeleveld wrote:
> >> > On September
> 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
> ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> >>
> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their
> passwords. 
> >That
> >> >> is
> >>
> >> part of the install process and is in the guide. 
> You are told to
> >set
> >> >> up
> >>
> >> the root password in one section and to set up a
> user and its
> >password
> >> >> in another section.  At the
> very least, you missed those two parts
> >and
> >> >> that
> isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted. 
> What else
> >you
> >>
> >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one
> else is either.  Rich
> >> >>
> posted
> >> >> that he thinks you
> missed a whole section which may or may not be
> >> >> correct but we do know you
> missed at least a couple steps  Given
> >enough
> >> >>
> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
> >> > Dale,
> >>
> >
> >> > You should know better.
> Please don't make it worse by top-posting
> >even
> >more.
> >> >
> >> >
> >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy
> thread, the
> >OP
> >seems
> to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> >> > This does not exist other than
> the simple to follow handbook.
> >>
> >
> >> > --
> >> > Joost
> >>
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, as you
> know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
> >> starts it.  The only reason I do it
> then is because most likely the
> >>
> person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's
> likely why no
> >one
> >> has mentioned this.  For all we know,
> he may be doing this with a
> >> limited
> cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho,
> I
> >bottom
> >> post
> as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets
> it
> >sorted
> >> out
> and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly. 
> Top
> >> posting, multiple threads and
> all makes it hard to follow.
> >>
> >> I'm beginning to think the same
> thing.  Here we thought he was
> >further
> >> into the
> install and just missed a few steps/section and now
> I'm
> >> beginning to think he has
> only booted the install media and wants a
> >> installer command.  Maybe he will
> post something that will help us
> >help
> >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
> rough idea but based on a recent
> >post,
> >> we may be
> all wrong on where he is in this process.
> >>
> >> Dale
> >>
> >> :-)  :-)
> >>
> >
> >Apologies for starting the top posting,
> >
> >I had earlier
> suggested using
> >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
> and the Gentoo
> >handbook side by
> side.
> >The link provided has the option
> of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
> >what stage the install failed but it might
> be easier to start over.
> >
> >Regards
> >Joachim
> 
> I had a quick look at that
> one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick install
> guide, but now with screenshots.
> 
> Screenshots are nice, but are always version
> dependent.
> 
> If I would get a
> penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local
> currency for every time someone is completely incapable of
> following an install guide when only one of the screenshots
> no longer 100% match the guide, I would have already retired
> to my own little island in the Pacific...
> 
> The screenshots on that link
> seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 and being
> used to install Gentoo in 2014.
> 
> I expect more confused questions from people
> who are not able to follow simple instructions if they are
> going to blindly follow this.
> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> --
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> 


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:06:06 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated
>this clearly enough for you to get it.I saw the directions about make
>user, but was unsure if this was for root since the manual mentioned a
>wheeluser.  

The first mention of 'wheel' in the handbook is where it is talking about 
creating extra users and specifically mentions wheel, users and audio are 
groups.

And it then shows you use 'useradd' for this.

--
Joost


>On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
> 
>
>Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>is
>part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>up
>the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>posted
>that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-) 
>
>
>
>Christopher Robinson wrote:
>> Dale,
>>
>> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
>not respond to
>> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
>what I asked.
>> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>>  
>>  Again, top posting to
>>  follow his lead. 
>>  
>>  It's
>>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>>  Missing a section
>>  isn't going to give
>>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>>  recommend a person read the docs several
>>  times.  The reason for that, if
>>  something
>>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>>  and go
>>  back and figure out what was
>>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>>  any.  If it was on one page,
>>  even as a
>>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>>  wouldn't
>>  have missed a section.  Just
>>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>>  at least some of us to
>>  have it all in one
>>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>>  ear.  I guess printing it and
>>  putting it in order would work but that
>>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>>  copy and paste will be
>>  easier. 
>>  
>>  Thing is, it's hard to
>>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>>  figure that to be the case
>>  tho which is why
>>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>>  system.  It may not be 100%
>>  perfect but it
>>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>>  some pretty odd hardware,
>>  it should work.
>>  
>>  
>>  One thing I learned the
>>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>>  it. Just boot using
>>  whatever media you
>>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>>  have to start from scratch
>>  most of the
>>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>>  early
>>  stages to end up doing that. 
>>  
>>  I'm just hoping you can
>>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>>  
>>  Dale
>>  
>>  :-)  :-) 
>>  
>>  
>>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>>  > I don't really want to get into a
>>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>>  missing
>>  > the point I am raising. To then
>>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>>  >
>>  
>>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >  Subject:
>>  Re: [gentoo-us

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Joost you should not be responding to people seeking help. Your attititude is 
offensive.
Joachim and Rich have made positive suggestions. Sorry about top posting, but 
today is
my first day on the list.

On Sat, 9/24/16, J. Roeleveld <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 5:36 PM
 
 On September 24, 2016
 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke <joachimgw...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m.,
 "Dale" <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >> J.
 Roeleveld wrote:
 >> > On September
 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
 ><rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 >wrote:
 >> >>
 Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their
 passwords. 
 >That
 >> >> is
 >>
 >> part of the install process and is in the guide. 
 You are told to
 >set
 >> >> up
 >>
 >> the root password in one section and to set up a
 user and its
 >password
 >> >> in another section.  At the
 very least, you missed those two parts
 >and
 >> >> that
 isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted. 
 What else
 >you
 >>
 >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one
 else is either.  Rich
 >> >>
 posted
 >> >> that he thinks you
 missed a whole section which may or may not be
 >> >> correct but we do know you
 missed at least a couple steps  Given
 >enough
 >> >>
 information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
 >> > Dale,
 >>
 >
 >> > You should know better.
 Please don't make it worse by top-posting
 >even
 >more.
 >> >
 >> >
 >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy
 thread, the
 >OP
 >seems
 to be looking for an install-script/tool.
 >> > This does not exist other than
 the simple to follow handbook.
 >>
 >
 >> > --
 >> > Joost
 >>
 >
 >> >
 >>
 >> Well, as you
 know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
 >> starts it.  The only reason I do it
 then is because most likely the
 >>
 person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's
 likely why no
 >one
 >> has mentioned this.  For all we know,
 he may be doing this with a
 >> limited
 cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho,
 I
 >bottom
 >> post
 as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets
 it
 >sorted
 >> out
 and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly. 
 Top
 >> posting, multiple threads and
 all makes it hard to follow.
 >>
 >> I'm beginning to think the same
 thing.  Here we thought he was
 >further
 >> into the
 install and just missed a few steps/section and now
 I'm
 >> beginning to think he has
 only booted the install media and wants a
 >> installer command.  Maybe he will
 post something that will help us
 >help
 >> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a
 rough idea but based on a recent
 >post,
 >> we may be
 all wrong on where he is in this process.
 >>
 >> Dale
 >>
 >> :-)  :-)
 >>
 >
 >Apologies for starting the top posting,
 >
 >I had earlier
 suggested using
 >http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/
 and the Gentoo
 >handbook side by
 side.
 >The link provided has the option
 of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
 >what stage the install failed but it might
 be easier to start over.
 >
 >Regards
 >Joachim
 
 I had a quick look at that
 one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick install
 guide, but now with screenshots.
 
 Screenshots are nice, but are always version
 dependent.
 
 If I would get a
 penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local
 currency for every time someone is completely incapable of
 following an install guide when only one of the screenshots
 no longer 100% match the guide, I would have already retired
 to my own little island in the Pacific...
 
 The screenshots on that link
 seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 and being
 used to install Gentoo in 2014.
 
 I expect more confused questions from people
 who are not able to follow simple instructions if they are
 going to blindly follow this.
 
 --
 Joost
 
 --
 
 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
 Please excuse my brevity.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 11:29:59 PM GMT+02:00, Joachim Gwoke 
 wrote:
>On 25 Sep 2016 12:19 a.m., "Dale"  wrote:
>>
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> > On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale
>
>wrote:
>> >> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords. 
>That
>> >> is
>> >> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to
>set
>> >> up
>> >> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its
>password
>> >> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts
>and
>> >> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else
>you
>> >> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>> >> posted
>> >> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>> >> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given
>enough
>> >> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
>> > Dale,
>> >
>> > You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting
>even
>more.
>> >
>> > >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the
>OP
>seems to be looking for an install-script/tool.
>> > This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Joost
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
>> starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
>> person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no
>one
>> has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
>> limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I
>bottom
>> post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it
>sorted
>> out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
>> posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was
>further
>> into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
>> beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
>> installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us
>help
>> him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent
>post,
>> we may be all wrong on where he is in this process.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>
>Apologies for starting the top posting,
>
>I had earlier suggested using
>http://www.tecmint.com/gentoo-linux-installation-guide/ and the Gentoo
>handbook side by side.
>The link provided has the option of using the LiveDVD. I do not know at
>what stage the install failed but it might be easier to start over.
>
>Regards
>Joachim

I had a quick look at that one. (Part 1 only) and it looks like the old quick 
install guide, but now with screenshots.

Screenshots are nice, but are always version dependent.

If I would get a penny or cent or whatever is the smallest part of your local 
currency for every time someone is completely incapable of following an install 
guide when only one of the screenshots no longer 100% match the guide, I would 
have already retired to my own little island in the Pacific...

The screenshots on that link seem to be related to a boot CD/DVD dated to 2012 
and being used to install Gentoo in 2014.

I expect more confused questions from people who are not able to follow simple 
instructions if they are going to blindly follow this.

--
Joost

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Well, I can only read what you posted.  You said you didn't so I took
your word for it. 

My question is this.  Have you already installed Gentoo and typed in a
whole bunch of commands or have you just booted the media, whatever you
use, and are at the prompt?  Based on a recent post, it sounds like you
are at the very, very beginning of the install.  If that is the case,
you haven't missed anything because you really haven't started yet.  Do
you recall typing in these commands:

|tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs 
||mount -t proc proc /mnt/gentoo/proc |
|mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
|||chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
|||nano -w /etc/fstab
||emerge --ask sys-process/cronie
||grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg 

That's not all of them by any means, it's just some that are in the
guide.  If you haven't done any of those yet, then you are at one spot. 
If you have, you may be further along than a couple of us think you
are.  Installing Gentoo is a long process.  Even on a fairly fast rig,
it can take a day or so, hours for sure.  It mostly depends on what
desktop you install and such. 

By the way, wheel is a group, not a user.  The wheel group allows a user
to switch to root with su.  If a user is not in that group, they can't
switch to root. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
|


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated
> this clearly enough for you to get it.
> I saw the directions about make user, but was unsure if this was for
> root since the manual mentioned a wheel
> user. 
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>
>
> Christopher Robinson wrote:
> > Dale,
> >
> > Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
> not respond to
> > my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
> what I asked.
> > For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------
> > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com
> <mailto:rdalek1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org <mailto:gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
> >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
> > 
> >  Again, top posting to
> >  follow his lead.
> > 
> >  It's
> >  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared.
> >  Missing a section
> >  isn't going to give
> >  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
> >  recommend a person read the docs several
> >  times.  The reason for that, if
> >  something
> >  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
> >  and go
> >  back and figure out what was
> >  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
> >  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
> >  any.  If it was on one page,
> >  even as a
> >  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
> >  wouldn't
> >  have missed a section.  Just
> >  start at the top and work your way down.
> >  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
> >  at least some of us to
> >  have it all in one
> >  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
> >  ear.  I guess printing it and
> >  putting it in order would work but that
> >  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
> >  copy and paste will be
> >  easier.
> > 
> >  Thing is, it's hard to
> >  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
> >  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
> >  figure that to be the case
> >  tho which is why
> >  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
> >  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
> >  system.  It may not be 100%
> >  perfect but it
> >  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
> >  especially the install part.  Unless you have
> >  some pretty odd hardware,
> >  it should work.
> > 
> > 
> >  One thing I lea

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale  
> wrote:
>> Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>> is
>> part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>> up
>> the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>> in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>> that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>> missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>> posted
>> that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>> correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>> information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 
> Dale,
>
> You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting even more.
>
> >From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the OP seems 
> >to be looking for an install-script/tool.
> This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

Well, as you know, I never top post unless it is a new person that
starts it.  The only reason I do it then is because most likely the
person on the other end has no choice but too.  It's likely why no one
has mentioned this.  For all we know, he may be doing this with a
limited cell phone.  Who knows.  For the normal situations tho, I bottom
post as you know or do it inline.  I will be glad when he gets it sorted
out and can actually set it up to be mailing list friendly.  Top
posting, multiple threads and all makes it hard to follow. 

I'm beginning to think the same thing.  Here we thought he was further
into the install and just missed a few steps/section and now I'm
beginning to think he has only booted the install media and wants a
installer command.  Maybe he will post something that will help us help
him.  Maybe.  I thought I had a rough idea but based on a recent post,
we may be all wrong on where he is in this process. 

Dale 

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:35:58 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.

No need to become personal here.

>I was detailing the end result after compiling the minimal install CD.

Please explain, how are you compiling a CD?

>I will check the manual to see if it addresses this. I was hoping to
>get
>a quick answer from the list and not to cause a ruckus.

The quick answer was already goven by Neil. In order to install Gentoo, follow 
the handbook.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:00 PM
> 
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
> 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
> <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Thanks again for your response.
> After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
> > I do not know what command to use to boot
> the install. I looked through the manual
> > but I did not see an answer for this. The
> directions seemed to apply to a very
> >
> different install scenario.
> 
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system
> 
> That is the last step after
> configuring the bootloader (if you don't
> configure the bootloader first you won't be
> able to boot the system).
> Are you sure you
> completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
> sure what you were compiling as there are a few
> places where this can
> happen.
> 
> -- 
> Rich
> 
> 


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

The reason he posted XXX is because it doesn't matter what media you
use.  You can use the minimal one, the Live one, a DVD or USB with
sysrescue on it, another Linux install, Knoppix or whatever Linuxy thing
to install Gentoo from.  My first install was done from Mandrake.  My
last one from sysrescue.  It's the same steps for them both.  What
install media you use doesn't matter. 


>From another email:

Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
> I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

When you get to that prompt, then you start the install process.  It's
not one command, it is a serious of them that you have to enter in. 
Unless someone created a installer and I missed it, you have to install
Gentoo manually.  There is no installer. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE DVD
> as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which you 
> missed in
> jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > You are giving a generic
>  answer to what you see as a generic question.
>  > I really can't  play 20 questions by
>  repeating over until the light
>  > comes
>  on.
>  
>  I'm sorry, but
>  "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
>  question.
>  
>  The more specific
>  and detailed the question, the more specific and
>  detailed the answers. But the response was
>  given freely and it's entirely
>  up to you
>  what you do with it.
>  
>  
>  --------------------
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
>  wrote:
>  > 
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  On Sat, 24
>  Sep 2016
>  >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  >  
>  >  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  >  not helpful. I have read through the
>  the
>  >  > handbook and the directions
>  there do not  
>  >  match the screen
>  results.
>  >  
>  > 
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  >  that.
>  >  
>  >  > I
>  >  > take
>  offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  > 
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  >  
>  >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  >  
>  >  > help.While
>  those with  
>  >  experience may find my
>  request naive, I went to
>  >  > the
>  list for suggestions beyond the  
>  > 
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  > 
>  >  
>  >  parts of my question in your
>  smackdown.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  >  you asked two separate
>  >  questions. I only
>  > 
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  >  one.
>  >  
>  >  As has
>  >  been
>  mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  >  a
>  >  step. The point
>  I was trying to make is
>  >  that it is
>  important to follow
>  >  the handbook
>  >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
>  fully before
>  >  attempting to follow it.
>  Reading it and
>  >  following it at the
>  same time is
>  >  asking for
>  >  trouble.
>  >  
>  >  Experience has
>  > 
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  >  problems are caused by a failure to
>  follow the
>  >  handbook correctly.
>  >  Sometimes this is caused
>  >  by someone thinking they know better and
>  taking
>  >  a shortcut but more often it
>  is simply a
>  >  moaater of a mistake
>  or
>  >  misunderstanding
>  >  somewhere.
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  > Sorry  
>  >  for the annoyance and
>  >  > possibleviolation  
>  >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
>  more support. 
>  >  > 
>  >  > On  
>  >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>  Neil Bothwick
>  >  > <n...@digimed.co.uk> 
>  
>  >  wrote: 
>  >  >
>  
>  >  >  On Sat,  
>  >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
>  Christopher Robinson
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >   
>  >  > > Also,  
>  >  I read that it is possible to install
>  Gentoo from the
>  >  Live
>  >  > > DVD.How do I do
>  that?
>  >  > 
>  >  > You need to read  
>  >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
>  start to finish,
>  >  > then read it
>  again. When you understand  
>  >  what is
>  going on, you then boot
>  >  > from 
>  
>  >  the live DVD and follow the
>  installation instructions fro
>  >  the
>  >  > handbook.
>  > 
>  > 
>  >  >   
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  -- 
>  >  Neil
>  Bothwick
>  >  
>  >  I
>  distinctly remember forgetting
>  >  that.
>  > 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  Never sleep with anyone crazier than
>  yourself.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Actually, I was able to set a password although I may not have stated this 
clearly enough for you to get it.I saw the directions about make user, but was 
unsure if this was for root since the manual mentioned a wheeluser.  

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:55 PM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
 

 Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Dale,
>
> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
> respond to
> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
> asked.
> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>
>
>
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>  
>  Again, top posting to
>  follow his lead. 
>  
>  It's
>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>  Missing a section
>  isn't going to give
>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>  recommend a person read the docs several
>  times.  The reason for that, if
>  something
>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>  and go
>  back and figure out what was
>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>  any.  If it was on one page,
>  even as a
>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>  wouldn't
>  have missed a section.  Just
>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>  at least some of us to
>  have it all in one
>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>  ear.  I guess printing it and
>  putting it in order would work but that
>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>  copy and paste will be
>  easier. 
>  
>  Thing is, it's hard to
>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>  figure that to be the case
>  tho which is why
>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>  system.  It may not be 100%
>  perfect but it
>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>  some pretty odd hardware,
>  it should work.
>  
>  
>  One thing I learned the
>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>  it. Just boot using
>  whatever media you
>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>  have to start from scratch
>  most of the
>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>  early
>  stages to end up doing that. 
>  
>  I'm just hoping you can
>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  > I don't really want to get into a
>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>  missing
>  > the point I am raising. To then
>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>  >
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  Rich
>  Freeman wrote:
>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  >  <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >>
>  Actually, he is correct.
>  >  >
>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>  top-posting.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  > 
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  >  because he did and I posted that
>  reasoning. 
>  >  I'm sure he will get
>  around
>  >  to bottom
>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>  Who knows what he
>  >  is
>  >  using

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:43:58 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE
>DVD
>as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which
>you missed in
>jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 


The path to be followed when installing Gentoo is the same, regardless of which 
media you use.
Only requirement is that the media is semi recent. Most people here prefer to 
use sysresccd as it contains a lot of usefull tools to make the first steps 
easy and as it's Gentoo based, most of the system already matches.

The path is explained and described in great detail in the handbook as already 
mentioned.

--
Joost


>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
> 
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
> 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > You are giving a generic
> answer to what you see as a generic question.
> > I really can't  play 20 questions by
> repeating over until the light
> > comes
> on.
> 
> I'm sorry, but
> "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
> question.
> 
> The more specific
> and detailed the question, the more specific and
> detailed the answers. But the response was
> given freely and it's entirely
> up to you
> what you do with it.
> 
> 
> ------------
> > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > 
> >  Subject:
> Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
> PM
> >  
> >  On Sat, 24
> Sep 2016
> >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
> Christopher Robinson wrote:
> >  
> >  > Honestly, your reply is  
> >  not helpful. I have read through the
> the
> >  > handbook and the directions
> there do not  
> >  match the screen
> results.
> >  
> > 
> You'd need to be more specific about
> >  that.
> >  
> >  > I
> >  > take
> offense at your arrogant tone in  
> > 
> reply to a beginners request for
> >  
> >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
> >  
> >  > help.While
> those with  
> >  experience may find my
> request naive, I went to
> >  > the
> list for suggestions beyond the  
> > 
> handbook.Also, you confuse the two
> > 
> >  
> >  parts of my question in your
> smackdown.
> >  
> > 
> Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
> >  you asked two separate
> >  questions. I only
> > 
> tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
> >  one.
> >  
> >  As has
> >  been
> mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
> >  a
> >  step. The point
> I was trying to make is
> >  that it is
> important to follow
> >  the handbook
> >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
> fully before
> >  attempting to follow it.
> Reading it and
> >  following it at the
> same time is
> >  asking for
> >  trouble.
> >  
> >  Experience has
> > 
> shown that a large proportion of new user install
> >  problems are caused by a failure to
> follow the
> >  handbook correctly.
> >  Sometimes this is caused
> >  by someone thinking they know better and
> taking
> >  a shortcut but more often it
> is simply a
> >  moaater of a mistake
> or
> >  misunderstanding
> >  somewhere.
> >  
> >  
> >  > Sorry  
> >  for the annoyance and
> >  > possibleviolation  
> >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
> more support. 
> >  > 
> >  >     On  
> >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
> Neil Bothwick
> >  > <n...@digimed.co.uk> 
> 
> >  wrote: 
> >  >
> 
> >  >  On Sat,  
> >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
> Christopher Robinson
> >  wrote:
> >  >   
> >  > > Also,  
> >  I read that it is possible to install
> Gentoo from the
> >  Live
> >  > > DVD.How do I do
> that?
> >  > 
> >  > You need to read  
> >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
> start to finish,
> >  > then read it
> again. When you understand  
> >  what is
> going on, you then boot
> >  > from 
> 
> >  the live DVD and follow the
> installation instructions fro
> >  the
> >  > handbook.
> > 
> > 
> >  >   
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  -- 
> >  Neil
> Bothwick
> >  
> >  I
> distinctly remember forgetting
> >  that.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
> 
> Never sleep with anyone crazier than
> yourself.


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:54:56 PM GMT+02:00, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That
>is
>part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set
>up
>the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
>in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
>that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
>missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich
>posted
>that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
>correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
>information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale,

You should know better. Please don't make it worse by top-posting even more.

>From what I understand from this nightmare of a messy thread, the OP seems to 
>be looking for an install-script/tool.
This does not exist other than the simple to follow handbook.

--
Joost


>
>
>
>Christopher Robinson wrote:
>> Dale,
>>
>> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does
>not respond to
>> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of
>what I asked.
>> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------
>> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>>  
>>  Again, top posting to
>>  follow his lead. 
>>  
>>  It's
>>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>>  Missing a section
>>  isn't going to give
>>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>>  recommend a person read the docs several
>>  times.  The reason for that, if
>>  something
>>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>>  and go
>>  back and figure out what was
>>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>>  any.  If it was on one page,
>>  even as a
>>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>>  wouldn't
>>  have missed a section.  Just
>>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>>  at least some of us to
>>  have it all in one
>>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>>  ear.   I guess printing it and
>>  putting it in order would work but that
>>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>>  copy and paste will be
>>  easier. 
>>  
>>  Thing is, it's hard to
>>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>>  figure that to be the case
>>  tho which is why
>>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>>  system.  It may not be 100%
>>  perfect but it
>>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>>  some pretty odd hardware,
>>  it should work.
>>  
>>  
>>  One thing I learned the
>>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>>  it. Just boot using
>>  whatever media you
>>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>>  have to start from scratch
>>  most of the
>>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>>  early
>>  stages to end up doing that. 
>>  
>>  I'm just hoping you can
>>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>>  
>>  Dale
>>  
>>  :-)  :-) 
>>  
>>  
>>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>>  > I don't really want to get into a
>>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>>  missing
>>  > the point I am raising. To then
>>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>>  >
>>  
>>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >  Subject:
>>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>>  PM
>>  >  
>>  >  Rich
>>  Freeman wrote:
>>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>>  >  <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>>  >  wrote:
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 24, 2016 10:40:16 PM GMT+02:00, Christopher Robinson 
<chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
>I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

First: STOP top posting
Second: Fix your mailer and stop posting in HTML
Third: Stop starting new threads

This will make following this simpler.

As for your latest question. After booting with A install CD/USB/whatever, you 
need to follow the entire install guide.

There is NO installer that does it all for you.

--
Joost



>
>On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:35 PM
> 
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
> 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Thank you for at least
> responding to my question. I did try creating a
> > password in root, but I could not boot
> from there.
> 
> As Rich said,
> if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What
> is
> the error message you get when trying to
> boot?
> 
> > I will check out
> > the other manual suggestion. I had tried
> Systemrescue CD earlier, but
> > it
> displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with
> a
> > magnifying lens.
> 
> Press C or E (depending on
> which kernel you want) at the main menu and
> you'll get several more options including
> choices of screen resolution.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil
> Bothwick
> 
> A Microsoft joke
> (is that a tautology?)


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Well, you said you hadn't set up any users and their passwords.  That is
part of the install process and is in the guide.  You are told to set up
the root password in one section and to set up a user and its password
in another section.  At the very least, you missed those two parts and
that isn't a assumption, it's based on what you posted.  What else you
missed I'm not sure and most likely, no one else is either.  Rich posted
that he thinks you missed a whole section which may or may not be
correct but we do know you missed at least a couple steps  Given enough
information, someone may be able to figure it out tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Dale,
>
> Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
> respond to
> my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
> asked.
> For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.
>
>
>
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
>  
>  Again, top posting to
>  follow his lead. 
>  
>  It's
>  not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
>  Missing a section
>  isn't going to give
>  you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
>  recommend a person read the docs several
>  times.  The reason for that, if
>  something
>  doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
>  and go
>  back and figure out what was
>  missed.  The fact that I don't see a
>  all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
>  any.  If it was on one page,
>  even as a
>  option for those who don't like it, then you likely
>  wouldn't
>  have missed a section.  Just
>  start at the top and work your way down. 
>  Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
>  at least some of us to
>  have it all in one
>  long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
>  ear.   I guess printing it and
>  putting it in order would work but that
>  means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
>  copy and paste will be
>  easier. 
>  
>  Thing is, it's hard to
>  tell what was wrong because no one knew you
>  missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
>  figure that to be the case
>  tho which is why
>  he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
>  follow the guide, you should get a bootable
>  system.  It may not be 100%
>  perfect but it
>  should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
>  especially the install part.  Unless you have
>  some pretty odd hardware,
>  it should work.
>  
>  
>  One thing I learned the
>  hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
>  mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
>  it. Just boot using
>  whatever media you
>  selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
>  then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
>  have to start from scratch
>  most of the
>  time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
>  early
>  stages to end up doing that. 
>  
>  I'm just hoping you can
>  fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>  Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  > I don't really want to get into a
>  fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
>  missing
>  > the point I am raising. To then
>  disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
>  >
>  
>  > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  >  Subject:
>  Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
>  PM
>  >  
>  >  Rich
>  Freeman wrote:
>  >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
>  2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  >  <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>  >  wrote:
>  >  >>
>  Actually, he is correct.
>  >  >
>  Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  >  demonstrate since everybody is
>  top-posting.
>  >  
>  > 
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  > 
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  >  because he did and I posted that
>  reasoning. 
>  >  I'm sure he will get
>  around
>  >  to bottom
>  >  posting when he gets his install done. 
>  Who knows what he
>  >  is
>  >  using at the moment. 
>  >  >
>  >  >> On
>  Saturday,
>  >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
>  Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
>  >  >> wrote:
>  > 
>  >>
>  >  >> You need to read
>  chapter 1 of the
>  >  Gentoo handbook from
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Funny how you used XXX when I SPECIFCALLY mentioned mentioned the LIVE DVD
as opposed to the minimal install cd. That was the whole point which you missed 
in
jumping to conclusions about my ignorance. 

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:38 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > You are giving a generic
 answer to what you see as a generic question.
 > I really can't  play 20 questions by
 repeating over until the light
 > comes
 on.
 
 I'm sorry, but
 "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic
 question.
 
 The more specific
 and detailed the question, the more specific and
 detailed the answers. But the response was
 given freely and it's entirely
 up to you
 what you do with it.
 
 
 
 > On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
 wrote:
 > 
 >  Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21
 PM
 >  
 >  On Sat, 24
 Sep 2016
 >  15:05:24 + (UTC),
 Christopher Robinson wrote:
 >  
 >  > Honestly, your reply is  
 >  not helpful. I have read through the
 the
 >  > handbook and the directions
 there do not  
 >  match the screen
 results.
 >  
 > 
 You'd need to be more specific about
 >  that.
 >  
 >  > I
 >  > take
 offense at your arrogant tone in  
 > 
 reply to a beginners request for
 >  
 >  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
 >  
 >  > help.While
 those with  
 >  experience may find my
 request naive, I went to
 >  > the
 list for suggestions beyond the  
 > 
 handbook.Also, you confuse the two
 > 
 >  
 >  parts of my question in your
 smackdown.
 >  
 > 
 Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
 >  you asked two separate
 >  questions. I only
 > 
 tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
 >  one.
 >  
 >  As has
 >  been
 mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
 >  a
 >  step. The point
 I was trying to make is
 >  that it is
 important to follow
 >  the handbook
 >  carefully, so the advice was to read it
 fully before
 >  attempting to follow it.
 Reading it and
 >  following it at the
 same time is
 >  asking for
 >  trouble.
 >  
 >  Experience has
 > 
 shown that a large proportion of new user install
 >  problems are caused by a failure to
 follow the
 >  handbook correctly.
 >  Sometimes this is caused
 >  by someone thinking they know better and
 taking
 >  a shortcut but more often it
 is simply a
 >  moaater of a mistake
 or
 >  misunderstanding
 >  somewhere.
 >  
 >  
 >  > Sorry  
 >  for the annoyance and
 >  > possibleviolation  
 >  of list protocol, but I expected a bit
 more support. 
 >  > 
 >  >     On  
 >  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
 Neil Bothwick
 >  > <n...@digimed.co.uk> 
 
 >  wrote: 
 >  >
 
 >  >  On Sat,  
 >  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC),
 Christopher Robinson
 >  wrote:
 >  >   
 >  > > Also,  
 >  I read that it is possible to install
 Gentoo from the
 >  Live
 >  > > DVD.How do I do
 that?
 >  > 
 >  > You need to read  
 >  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from
 start to finish,
 >  > then read it
 again. When you understand  
 >  what is
 going on, you then boot
 >  > from 
 
 >  the live DVD and follow the
 installation instructions fro
 >  the
 >  > handbook.
 > 
 > 
 >  >   
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  -- 
 >  Neil
 Bothwick
 >  
 >  I
 distinctly remember forgetting
 >  that.
 > 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 Never sleep with anyone crazier than
 yourself.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich responded to my question. I don't feel much like repeating.
I need the command to run the install after getting live cd # ~

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:35 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > Thank you for at least
 responding to my question. I did try creating a
 > password in root, but I could not boot
 from there.
 
 As Rich said,
 if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What
 is
 the error message you get when trying to
 boot?
 
 > I will check out
 > the other manual suggestion. I had tried
 Systemrescue CD earlier, but
 > it
 displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with
 a
 > magnifying lens.
 
 Press C or E (depending on
 which kernel you want) at the main menu and
 you'll get several more options including
 choices of screen resolution.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil
 Bothwick
 
 A Microsoft joke
 (is that a tautology?)

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:31:13 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> You are giving a generic answer to what you see as a generic question.
> I really can't  play 20 questions by repeating over until the light
> comes on.

I'm sorry, but "Can I install from disc XXX?" is a generic question.

The more specific and detailed the question, the more specific and
detailed the answers. But the response was given freely and it's entirely
up to you what you do with it.

 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21 PM
>  
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
>  15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>  
>  > Honestly, your reply is  
>  not helpful. I have read through the the
>  > handbook and the directions there do not  
>  match the screen results.
>  
>  You'd need to be more specific about
>  that.
>  
>  > I
>  > take offense at your arrogant tone in  
>  reply to a beginners request for
>  
>  I wasn't trying to be offensive.
>  
>  > help.While those with  
>  experience may find my request naive, I went to
>  > the list for suggestions beyond the  
>  handbook.Also, you confuse the two
>  >  
>  parts of my question in your smackdown.
>  
>  Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
>  you asked two separate
>  questions. I only
>  tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
>  one.
>  
>  As has
>  been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
>  a
>  step. The point I was trying to make is
>  that it is important to follow
>  the handbook
>  carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
>  attempting to follow it. Reading it and
>  following it at the same time is
>  asking for
>  trouble.
>  
>  Experience has
>  shown that a large proportion of new user install
>  problems are caused by a failure to follow the
>  handbook correctly.
>  Sometimes this is caused
>  by someone thinking they know better and taking
>  a shortcut but more often it is simply a
>  moaater of a mistake or
>  misunderstanding
>  somewhere.
>  
>  
>  > Sorry  
>  for the annoyance and
>  > possibleviolation  
>  of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
>  > 
>  >     On  
>  Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  > <n...@digimed.co.uk>  
>  wrote: 
>  > 
>  >  On Sat,  
>  24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson
>  wrote:
>  >   
>  > > Also,  
>  I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the
>  Live
>  > > DVD.How do I do that?    
>  > 
>  > You need to read  
>  chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>  > then read it again. When you understand  
>  what is going on, you then boot
>  > from  
>  the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro
>  the
>  > handbook.
>  > 
>  >   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Neil Bothwick
>  
>  I distinctly remember forgetting
>  that.
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.


pgpKuQT_a75Dj.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich,

Again thanks for a specific reply, unlike Dale and Neil's.
I was detailing the end result after compiling the minimal install CD.
I will check the manual to see if it addresses this. I was hoping to get
a quick answer from the list and not to cause a ruckus.


On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:00 PM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
 <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:
 > Thanks again for your response.
 After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
 > I do not know what command to use to boot
 the install. I looked through the manual
 > but I did not see an answer for this. The
 directions seemed to apply to a very
 >
 different install scenario.
 
 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system
 
 That is the last step after
 configuring the bootloader (if you don't
 configure the bootloader first you won't be
 able to boot the system).
 Are you sure you
 completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
 sure what you were compiling as there are a few
 places where this can
 happen.
 
 -- 
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:15:01 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a
> password in root, but I could not boot from there.

As Rich said, if you can't boot, the password is not the problem. What is
the error message you get when trying to boot?

> I will check out
> the other manual suggestion. I had tried Systemrescue CD earlier, but
> it displayed in a tiny screen resolution, unreadable even with a
> magnifying lens.

Press C or E (depending on which kernel you want) at the main menu and
you'll get several more options including choices of screen resolution.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A Microsoft joke (is that a tautology?)


pgp3N7C3ERuKX.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Dale  wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
 Actually, he is correct.
>>> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
>>> top-posting.
>> Actually he is and your reply supports that point.
> Actually, he isn't.  I'd suggest reading chapter 1 of my email "at
> least three or four times" to find the part where I pointed out his
> mistake.


OK.  You're saying he was following the install guide even tho he missed
a WHOLE section?  Right?  Come on Rich.  You know better than that.  How
can anyone follow something they missed?  As I just posted to the OP,
maybe Neil knew he missed something but wasn't sure what and that is the
reason he told him to go back and look at the docs.  When I read it,
it's what popped into my head, he missed something.  If Neil hadn't
posted it, I may have myself.  If the docs were wrong on something,
someone would have posted that a long time ago.  It's not like Gentoo
has some 5th rate docs.  Heck, I'd put them at the #1 spot every day of
the week and twice on Sunday.  Key thing is, follow them as close as
possible unless your hardware requires something different. 


>> Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
>> that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/
>>
> Certainly, but not if somebody doesn't take the time to point that out
> and explain it, vs just telling him to read only "chapter 1" of the
> handbook a few more times.
>
> I do agree that he is missing a few steps but I'll go ahead and admit
> that I occasionally miss a step on a Gentoo install because the
> handbook is fairly verbose and it is easy to skip over the wrong part.
> It would actually make sense to have a checklist to go along with it
> so that it is harder to skip the wrong section.
>
> Bottom line though is that if you aren't going to tailor your email to
> the questions being asked it isn't terribly helpful.
>

It would be helpful.  If a section is missed, go back and recheck what
was done and what wasn't.  This is where bash history comes in handy. 
You know what commands were done and in what order at that.  Of course,
one could print the thing and check it off on the pages.  Yikes, hard
copies.  o_O 

Since you are here, any chance we could get a all-in-one page for this? 
That is what I prefer to use myself.  Start at the top and work your way
down.  If you have to click on links and such to weave around to
different sections, that opens up the opportunity to miss a section.  I
guess a check list would help but depending on hardware, some steps may
not be needed or some steps may need to be added.  For me at least, a
one page guide would be what I would want.  It's what I used the first
time I installed and I think the last time as well.  If I were going to
reinstall tomorrow, I'd be looking awful hard for a one page guide. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

You are giving a generic answer to what you see as a generic question.
I really can't  play 20 questions by repeating over until the light comes on.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:21 PM
 
 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016
 15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
 
 > Honestly, your reply is
 not helpful. I have read through the the
 > handbook and the directions there do not
 match the screen results.
 
 You'd need to be more specific about
 that.
 
 > I
 > take offense at your arrogant tone in
 reply to a beginners request for
 
 I wasn't trying to be offensive.
 
 > help.While those with
 experience may find my request naive, I went to
 > the list for suggestions beyond the
 handbook.Also, you confuse the two
 >
 parts of my question in your smackdown.
 
 Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly,
 you asked two separate
 questions. I only
 tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
 one.
 
 As has
 been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing
 a
 step. The point I was trying to make is
 that it is important to follow
 the handbook
 carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
 attempting to follow it. Reading it and
 following it at the same time is
 asking for
 trouble.
 
 Experience has
 shown that a large proportion of new user install
 problems are caused by a failure to follow the
 handbook correctly.
 Sometimes this is caused
 by someone thinking they know better and taking
 a shortcut but more often it is simply a
 moaater of a mistake or
 misunderstanding
 somewhere.
 
 
 > Sorry
 for the annoyance and
 > possibleviolation
 of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
 > 
 >     On
 Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
 > <n...@digimed.co.uk>
 wrote: 
 > 
 >  On Sat,
 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
 > 
 > > Also,
 I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the
 Live
 > > DVD.How do I do that?  
 > 
 > You need to read
 chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
 > then read it again. When you understand
 what is going on, you then boot
 > from
 the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro
 the
 > handbook.
 > 
 > 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 I distinctly remember forgetting
 that.

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Dale,

Your assumption that I missed a section is entirely offbase and does not 
respond to
my original question. I could say that you are missing the point of what I 
asked.
For those who have had helpful suggestions I give thanks.




On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
 
 Again, top posting to
 follow his lead. 
 
 It's
 not a fight.  It's just called being prepared. 
 Missing a section
 isn't going to give
 you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
 recommend a person read the docs several
 times.  The reason for that, if
 something
 doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it
 and go
 back and figure out what was
 missed.  The fact that I don't see a
 all-in-one page guide isn't helping you
 any.  If it was on one page,
 even as a
 option for those who don't like it, then you likely
 wouldn't
 have missed a section.  Just
 start at the top and work your way down. 
 Maybe after this, someone will see the need for
 at least some of us to
 have it all in one
 long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
 ear.   I guess printing it and
 putting it in order would work but that
 means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a
 copy and paste will be
 easier. 
 
 Thing is, it's hard to
 tell what was wrong because no one knew you
 missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of
 figure that to be the case
 tho which is why
 he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
 follow the guide, you should get a bootable
 system.  It may not be 100%
 perfect but it
 should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
 especially the install part.  Unless you have
 some pretty odd hardware,
 it should work.
 
 
 One thing I learned the
 hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
 mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix
 it. Just boot using
 whatever media you
 selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
 then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT
 have to start from scratch
 most of the
 time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very
 early
 stages to end up doing that. 
 
 I'm just hoping you can
 fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)
 
 Dale
 
 :-)  :-) 
 
 
 Christopher Robinson wrote:
 > I don't really want to get into a
 fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- are
 missing
 > the point I am raising. To then
 disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
 >
 
 > On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >  Subject:
 Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 >  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 >  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44
 PM
 >  
 >  Rich
 Freeman wrote:
 >  > On Sat, Sep 24,
 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
 >  <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 >  wrote:
 >  >>
 Actually, he is correct.
 >  >
 Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
 >  demonstrate since everybody is
 top-posting.
 >  
 > 
 Actually he is and your reply
 > 
 supports that point.  Also, I top posted
 >  because he did and I posted that
 reasoning. 
 >  I'm sure he will get
 around
 >  to bottom
 >  posting when he gets his install done. 
 Who knows what he
 >  is
 >  using at the moment. 
 >  >
 >  >> On
 Saturday,
 >  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM,
 Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
 >  >> wrote:
 > 
 >>
 >  >> You need to read
 chapter 1 of the
 >  Gentoo handbook from
 start to finish,
 >  >> then read
 it again.
 >  > The handbook
 doesn't have chapters. 
 >  The step
 that was missed was well
 >  > into
 >  the process.
 > 
 >
 >  
 >  If he
 was reading and following the install
 > 
 guide, how did he do that
 >  when he
 missed a
 >  whole section?  Obviously,
 he wasn't following it
 >  since
 >  he missed the section.  When I did
 my
 >  first install well over a
 decade
 >  ago, I read
 >  that thing at least three of four times
 to even see if I
 >  wanted to try
 Gentoo.  During my last install
 >  on
 my new rig a few years
 >  ago, I read
 it
 >  twice even tho it was mostly the
 same.  Installing
 >  Gentoo
 >  isn't easy but it is very hard
 >  when you are not familiar enough with
 the
 >  process to even realize you
 missed a whole
 >  section.  If you
 follow the
 >  guide and
 >  don't miss anything, it should
 work.  The only major
 >  set back
 >  you can have is a badly configured
 >  kernel that won't complete the
 boot
 >  process.  I might add, this is
 also why I
 >  prefer a one page guide.
 
 >  Start at the top
 >  and work your way to the bottom.  Very
 little chance of
 >  missing anything
 then. 
 >  
 >  Now
 that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
 >  can chroot into it, do
 >  that section and
 > 
 finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
 >  :/
 >  
 >  Dale
 >  
 >  :-)  :-) 
 >  
 >  
 >
 >
 
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:16:00 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> > Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
> > give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
> > "1. Installing Gentoo".
> >  
> 
> Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?

I couldn't tell you without looking, but I wasn't answering that
question. I quoted only the part I was answering.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you may not get it.


pgpQpPmxs6oZy.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:05:24 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the
> handbook and the directions there do not match the screen results.

You'd need to be more specific about that.

> I
> take offense at your arrogant tone in reply to a beginners request for

I wasn't trying to be offensive.

> help.While those with experience may find my request naive, I went to
> the list for suggestions beyond the handbook.Also, you confuse the two
> parts of my question in your smackdown.

Firstly, it wasn't a smackdown. Secondly, you asked two separate
questions. I only tried to answer one of them, which is why I quoted only
one.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, your problem was caused by missing a
step. The point I was trying to make is that it is important to follow
the handbook carefully, so the advice was to read it fully before
attempting to follow it. Reading it and following it at the same time is
asking for trouble.

Experience has shown that a large proportion of new user install
problems are caused by a failure to follow the handbook correctly.
Sometimes this is caused by someone thinking they know better and taking
a shortcut but more often it is simply a moaater of a mistake or
misunderstanding somewhere.


> Sorry for the annoyance and
> possibleviolation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support. 
> 
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  wrote: 
> 
>  On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> > DVD.How do I do that?  
> 
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
> from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
> handbook.
> 
> 




-- 
Neil Bothwick

I distinctly remember forgetting that.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Again, top posting to follow his lead. 

It's not a fight.  It's just called being prepared.  Missing a section
isn't going to give you a proper install.  It's one reason I always
recommend a person read the docs several times.  The reason for that, if
something doesn't seem right, you will more than likely notice it and go
back and figure out what was missed.  The fact that I don't see a
all-in-one page guide isn't helping you any.  If it was on one page,
even as a option for those who don't like it, then you likely wouldn't
have missed a section.  Just start at the top and work your way down. 
Maybe after this, someone will see the need for at least some of us to
have it all in one long page.  Maybe Rich can whisper in someone's
ear.   I guess printing it and putting it in order would work but that
means a lot of typing when a lot of times, a copy and paste will be
easier. 

Thing is, it's hard to tell what was wrong because no one knew you
missed a section, I suspect Neil did sort of figure that to be the case
tho which is why he replied with what he did.  What we do know, if you
follow the guide, you should get a bootable system.  It may not be 100%
perfect but it should boot at least.  Gentoo has some excellent docs,
especially the install part.  Unless you have some pretty odd hardware,
it should work. 

One thing I learned the hard way.  Pretty much no matter what you may
mess up, you can chroot in and go back and fix it. Just boot using
whatever media you selected, follow the mount and chroot section and
then correct whatever is wrong.  You do NOT have to start from scratch
most of the time.  You'd have to have made a boo boo in the very early
stages to end up doing that. 

I'm just hoping you can fix this easily and finish your install.  :-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 


Christopher Robinson wrote:
> I don't really want to get into a fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- 
> are missing
> the point I am raising. To then disparage me is unworthy for a support list.
> 
> On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
>  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>  Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44 PM
>  
>  Rich Freeman wrote:
>  > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
>  <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>  >> Actually, he is correct.
>  > Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
>  demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.
>  
>  Actually he is and your reply
>  supports that point.  Also, I top posted
>  because he did and I posted that reasoning. 
>  I'm sure he will get around
>  to bottom
>  posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he
>  is
>  using at the moment. 
>  >
>  >> On Saturday,
>  September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
>  >> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> You need to read chapter 1 of the
>  Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>  >> then read it again.
>  > The handbook doesn't have chapters. 
>  The step that was missed was well
>  > into
>  the process.
>  >
>  
>  If he was reading and following the install
>  guide, how did he do that
>  when he missed a
>  whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it
>  since
>  he missed the section.  When I did my
>  first install well over a decade
>  ago, I read
>  that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
>  wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install
>  on my new rig a few years
>  ago, I read it
>  twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing
>  Gentoo
>  isn't easy but it is very hard
>  when you are not familiar enough with the
>  process to even realize you missed a whole
>  section.  If you follow the
>  guide and
>  don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major
>  set back
>  you can have is a badly configured
>  kernel that won't complete the boot
>  process.  I might add, this is also why I
>  prefer a one page guide. 
>  Start at the top
>  and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
>  missing anything then. 
>  
>  Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
>  can chroot into it, do
>  that section and
>  finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
>  :/
>  
>  Dale
>  
>  :-)  :-) 
>  
>  
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
> Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
> give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
> "1. Installing Gentoo".
>

Great, where in that part does it tell you how to set a root password?

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:38:59 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> > You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to
> > finish, then read it again.  
> 
> The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
> into the process.

This is the Gentoo Handbook, an effort to centralize Gentoo/Linux
information. This handbook contains the installation instructions for an
Internet-based installation and parts about working with Gentoo and
Portage.

Contents [hide] 
1 Installing Gentoo
2 Working with Gentoo
3 Working with Portage
4 Gentoo network configuration

Call it Part 1 or Volume 1 if you prefer, the handbook itself doesn't
give such a label to the four sections. I meant the part called
"1. Installing Gentoo".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: In order to control energy costs the light at the end
of the tunnel has been shut off until further notice...


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Dale  wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>>> Actually, he is correct.
>> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
>> top-posting.
>
> Actually he is and your reply supports that point.

Actually, he isn't.  I'd suggest reading chapter 1 of my email "at
least three or four times" to find the part where I pointed out his
mistake.

>
> Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
> that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/
>

Certainly, but not if somebody doesn't take the time to point that out
and explain it, vs just telling him to read only "chapter 1" of the
handbook a few more times.

I do agree that he is missing a few steps but I'll go ahead and admit
that I occasionally miss a step on a Gentoo install because the
handbook is fairly verbose and it is easy to skip over the wrong part.
It would actually make sense to have a checklist to go along with it
so that it is harder to skip the wrong section.

Bottom line though is that if you aren't going to tailor your email to
the questions being asked it isn't terribly helpful.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> Thanks again for your response. After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
> I do not know what command to use to boot the install. I looked through the 
> manual
> but I did not see an answer for this. The directions seemed to apply to a very
> different install scenario.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Rebooting_the_system

That is the last step after configuring the bootloader (if you don't
configure the bootloader first you won't be able to boot the system).
Are you sure you completed all the steps in the handbook?  I'm not
sure what you were compiling as there are a few places where this can
happen.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

I don't really want to get into a fight, but some of the replies-not Rich's- 
are missing
the point I am raising. To then disparage me is unworthy for a support list.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 3:44 PM
 
 Rich Freeman wrote:
 > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale
 <rdalek1...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >> Actually, he is correct.
 > Actually, he isn't, which is hard to
 demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.
 
 Actually he is and your reply
 supports that point.  Also, I top posted
 because he did and I posted that reasoning. 
 I'm sure he will get around
 to bottom
 posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he
 is
 using at the moment. 
 >
 >> On Saturday,
 September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk>
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >> You need to read chapter 1 of the
 Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
 >> then read it again.
 > The handbook doesn't have chapters. 
 The step that was missed was well
 > into
 the process.
 >
 
 If he was reading and following the install
 guide, how did he do that
 when he missed a
 whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it
 since
 he missed the section.  When I did my
 first install well over a decade
 ago, I read
 that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
 wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install
 on my new rig a few years
 ago, I read it
 twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing
 Gentoo
 isn't easy but it is very hard
 when you are not familiar enough with the
 process to even realize you missed a whole
 section.  If you follow the
 guide and
 don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major
 set back
 you can have is a badly configured
 kernel that won't complete the boot
 process.  I might add, this is also why I
 prefer a one page guide. 
 Start at the top
 and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
 missing anything then. 
 
 Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he
 can chroot into it, do
 that section and
 finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out. 
 :/
 
 Dale
 
 :-)  :-) 
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>> Actually, he is correct.
> Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is 
> top-posting.

Actually he is and your reply supports that point.  Also, I top posted
because he did and I posted that reasoning.  I'm sure he will get around
to bottom posting when he gets his install done.  Who knows what he is
using at the moment. 
>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
>> then read it again.
> The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
> into the process.
>

If he was reading and following the install guide, how did he do that
when he missed a whole section?  Obviously, he wasn't following it since
he missed the section.  When I did my first install well over a decade
ago, I read that thing at least three of four times to even see if I
wanted to try Gentoo.  During my last install on my new rig a few years
ago, I read it twice even tho it was mostly the same.  Installing Gentoo
isn't easy but it is very hard when you are not familiar enough with the
process to even realize you missed a whole section.  If you follow the
guide and don't miss anything, it should work.  The only major set back
you can have is a badly configured kernel that won't complete the boot
process.  I might add, this is also why I prefer a one page guide. 
Start at the top and work your way to the bottom.  Very little chance of
missing anything then. 

Now that he knows he missed a section, maybe he can chroot into it, do
that section and finish the install.  That is unless his mobo blows out.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Thanks again for your response. After compiling I get the prompt: live cd # ~
I do not know what command to use to boot the install. I looked through the 
manual
but I did not see an answer for this. The directions seemed to apply to a very
different install scenario.

PS My motherboard or whatever was preventing the computer from powering on 
resolved itself as as mysteriously as it occurred.

On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 1:19 PM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 12:15 PM, Christopher Robinson
 <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 > Thank you
 for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a
 password in root,
 > but I could not boot
 from there.
 
 If it isn't
 booting then passwords are the least of your problems. 
 It
 probably is a bootloader problem (EFI or
 grub).  But, I'm not sure
 what "I
 could not boot" actually means.  Do you get an error
 message?
 What state does the system end up
 in?
 
 --
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
>
> Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a 
> password in root,
> but I could not boot from there.

If it isn't booting then passwords are the least of your problems.  It
probably is a bootloader problem (EFI or grub).  But, I'm not sure
what "I could not boot" actually means.  Do you get an error message?
What state does the system end up in?

--
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Rich,

Thank you for at least responding to my question. I did try creating a password 
in root,
but I could not boot from there.  I will check out the other manual suggestion. 
I had tried Systemrescue CD earlier, but it displayed in a tiny screen 
resolution,
unreadable even with a magnifying lens. If anyone thinks of suggesting Knoppix,
the main download site was not working and I did not have the patience to try 
all the
other mirrors. 
I do apologize for venting my frustration, but I have been trying to manage a 
pretty
awful situation for over a month, and this morning my motherboard died!
As the Kinks sang: I'm in a state of confusion.


On Sat, 9/24/16, Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New Install
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Date: Saturday, September 24, 2016, 11:18 AM
 
 On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at
 8:13 AM, Christopher Robinson
 <chrisrobin...@rocketmail.com>
 wrote:
 > After the files compile on the
 Minimal Install CD, I get a command line
 > prompt.
 > I assume I
 need to enter a username and then a password to boot the
 install,
 > but I have not succeeded in
 creating those. What should I do?
 >
 
 The step you missed is this
 one:
 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password
 
 If you're at the command
 prompt inside the chroot then you're already
 logged in as root. So, you just type
 "passwd" and enter a new root
 password.  root is your username.  You can
 create additional users
 using useradd:
 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Finalizing#Adding_a_user_for_daily_use
 
 > Also, I read that it is possible to
 install Gentoo from the Live DVD.
 > How
 do I do that?
 
 The
 same way as from the minimal CD.  Just open a terminal and
 follow
 the handbook.
 
 -- 
 Rich
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Dale  wrote:
>
> Actually, he is correct.

Actually, he isn't, which is hard to demonstrate since everybody is top-posting.

>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick 
> wrote:
>
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again.

The handbook doesn't have chapters.  The step that was missed was well
into the process.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Dale]

Top posting since he started it.  ;-) 

Actually, he is correct.  If you follow the installation guide, you will
end up with a installed OS and it will tell you when it is time to
reboot into the system you just installed.  It also tells you how to add
a user to the system.  One thing Gentoo is well known for and has been
for ages, excellent install docs. 

Admittedly, it's been a while since I did a install so I went and looked
at the docs to be sure.  Yep, everything is there and exactly where it
should be.  I do wish it had the one page layout like it used to tho. 

So, you need to read and follow the docs.  If you do that, you will end
up with a install just like everyone else who follows them.  Example. 
How to use a DVD to install from:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Media

I suspect a lot of us use sysrescuecd since it is Gentoo based. 

http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage

Mine is on a USB stick. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 



Christopher Robinson wrote:
> Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the
> handbook and the directions there
> do not match the screen results. I take offense at your arrogant tone
> in reply to a beginners request for help.
> While those with experience may find my request naive, I went to the
> list for suggestions beyond the handbook.
> Also, you confuse the two parts of my question in your smackdown.
> Sorry for the annoyance and possible
> violation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support.
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick
>  wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:
>
>
> > Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> > DVD.How do I do that?
>
>
> You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
> then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
> from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
> handbook.
>
>
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
>
> "Meow"   "Woof" Jeez, it's really raining today.
>

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> After the files compile on the Minimal Install CD, I get a command line
> prompt.
> I assume I need to enter a username and then a password to boot the install,
> but I have not succeeded in creating those. What should I do?
>

The step you missed is this one:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Root_password

If you're at the command prompt inside the chroot then you're already
logged in as root. So, you just type "passwd" and enter a new root
password.  root is your username.  You can create additional users
using useradd:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Finalizing#Adding_a_user_for_daily_use

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live DVD.
> How do I do that?

The same way as from the minimal CD.  Just open a terminal and follow
the handbook.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Christopher Robinson]

Honestly, your reply is not helpful. I have read through the the handbook and 
the directions there 
do not match the screen results. I take offense at your arrogant tone in reply 
to a beginners request for help.While those with experience may find my request 
naive, I went to the list for suggestions beyond the handbook.Also, you confuse 
the two parts of my question in your smackdown. Sorry for the annoyance and 
possibleviolation of list protocol, but I expected a bit more support.
 

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:47 AM, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
 

 On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> DVD.How do I do that?

You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
handbook.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Meow"   "Woof"     Jeez, it's really raining today.

   

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:13:00 + (UTC), Christopher Robinson wrote:

> Also, I read that it is possible to install Gentoo from the Live
> DVD.How do I do that?

You need to read chapter 1 of the Gentoo handbook from start to finish,
then read it again. When you understand what is going on, you then boot
from the live DVD and follow the installation instructions fro the
handbook.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Meow"   "Woof" Jeez, it's really raining today.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 10, 2016 9:11:59 AM GMT+02:00, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 12:18:51PM +1000, Adam Carter wrote
>
>> I just tried uninstalling xf86-video-vesa and xf86-video-fbdev to see
>if
>> they were required, and X still runs, so you can ignore those
>messages.
>> 
>> FWIW i'm kernel 4.7.2 with ~amd64 on a skylake i3.
>> 
>> You dont appear to have evdev setup;
>>  -> Device Drivers
>>  -> Input device support
>> -> Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)
>> 
>> and emerge xf86-input-evdev
>
>  ?!?! I've never had evdev installed.  Why now?  Mouse and keyboard
>work OK.

Evdev helps with swapping mice and keyboards. IOW, when using laptops.

And I think it's the 'preferred' way of doing things these days?

Then again, if you're not having problems with mice and keyboards, I don't see 
how evdev will 'solve' a non existent problem.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[Adam Carter]

>
>   ?!?! I've never had evdev installed.  Why now?  Mouse and keyboard
> work OK.
>

I thought evdev was the contemporary way of doing things (its in the gentoo
guides), but after a bit of reading it seems more complicated than that.
Ignore my post.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[waltdnes]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 12:18:51PM +1000, Adam Carter wrote

> I just tried uninstalling xf86-video-vesa and xf86-video-fbdev to see if
> they were required, and X still runs, so you can ignore those messages.
> 
> FWIW i'm kernel 4.7.2 with ~amd64 on a skylake i3.
> 
> You dont appear to have evdev setup;
>  -> Device Drivers
>  -> Input device support
> -> Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)
> 
> and emerge xf86-input-evdev

  ?!?! I've never had evdev installed.  Why now?  Mouse and keyboard
work OK.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 9, 2016 5:25:13 PM GMT+02:00, Daniel Frey  
wrote:
>On 09/09/2016 08:17 AM, Daniel Frey wrote:
>>> 2) "uname -a" gives the following output...
>>>
>>> [i3][root][~] uname -a
>>> Linux i3 4.4.6-gentoo #4 SMP Wed Sep 7 17:12:27 Local time zone must
>be set--see zic m x86_64 Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU N3700 @ 1.60GHz
>GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
>>>
>>>
>>> ...but I've already run...
>>>
>>> [i3][root][~] emerge --config sys-libs/timezone-data
>>>
>>> Configuring pkg...
>>>
>>>  * Updating /etc/localtime with /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern
>> 
>> The new link is /etc/timezone, not /etc/localtime. I would think if
>you
>> renamed it that problem will go away?
>
>Whoops, I replied a little too quickly on this one. I don't know why it
>thinks it's not updated. Someone else may have an idea.
>
>It is odd that it says it's updating. Have you checked to see that it
>is
>symlinked properly?
>
>Dan

Try rebuilding the kernel after setting it.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[Adam Carter]

> Device Drivers  --->
>   Graphics support --->
> <*> Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support)
> --->
> --- Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support)
> [*]   Enable legacy fbdev support for your modesetting driver
> ...and also...
> <*> Intel 8xx/9xx/G3x/G4x/HD Graphics
> <*> DRM Support for bochs dispi vga interface (qemu stdvga)
>
>   Something has changed.  I did some minor tweaking, and rebuilt, which
> solved the timezonDo I need another magic setting somewhere else
> to enable the options it asks for?  I'm attaching the Xorg log (gzipped)
> in case it helps.
>

I just tried uninstalling xf86-video-vesa and xf86-video-fbdev to see if
they were required, and X still runs, so you can ignore those messages.

FWIW i'm kernel 4.7.2 with ~amd64 on a skylake i3.

You dont appear to have evdev setup;
 -> Device Drivers
 -> Input device support
-> Generic input layer (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)

and emerge xf86-input-evdev

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[waltdnes]

  1 down, 1 to go.  Apparently, I needed to rebuild the kernel after
redoing the timezone initialization.  I did...

[i3][root][~] rm -rf /etc/timezone /etc/localtime
[i3][root][~] echo "Canada/Eastern" > /etc/timezone
[i3][root][~] emerge --config sys-libs/timezone-data

...and rebuilt the kernel, attempting to fix the video.  Now I get...

[i3][root][~] uname -a
Linux i3 4.4.6-gentoo #5 SMP Sat Sep 10 00:48:23 UTC 2016 x86_64 Intel(R) 
Pentium(R) CPU N3700 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 08:17:35AM -0700, Daniel Frey wrote
> On 09/08/2016 09:50 PM, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> >   64-bit no-multilib install on a relatively new Dell Inspiron...
> > 
> > 1) X works OK, but installing x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel finishes off
> > with the message...
> > 
> > ***
> > WARN: postinst
> > This driver requires KMS support in your kernel
> >   Device Drivers --->
> > Graphics support --->
> >   Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support)  --->
> >   <*>   Intel 830M, 845G, 852GM, 855GM, 865G (i915 driver)  --->
> >   i915 driver
> >   [*]   Enable modesetting on intel by default
> > ***
> 
> You have built the Intel driver in the kernel correct? It is telling you
> you didn't build KMS support in your kernel and showing you what needs
> to be set in your kernel.

  I don't get those options.  Here's what I see (kernel 4.4.6-gentoo).

Device Drivers  --->
  Graphics support --->
<*> Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support) --->
--- Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support)
[*]   Enable legacy fbdev support for your modesetting driver
...and also...
<*> Intel 8xx/9xx/G3x/G4x/HD Graphics
<*> DRM Support for bochs dispi vga interface (qemu stdvga) 

  Something has changed.  I did some minor tweaking, and rebuilt, which
solved the timezonDo I need another magic setting somewhere else
to enable the options it asks for?  I'm attaching the Xorg log (gzipped)
in case it helps.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications


Xorg.0.log.gz
Description: Binary data

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/09/2016 08:17 AM, Daniel Frey wrote:
>> 2) "uname -a" gives the following output...
>>
>> [i3][root][~] uname -a
>> Linux i3 4.4.6-gentoo #4 SMP Wed Sep 7 17:12:27 Local time zone must be 
>> set--see zic m x86_64 Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU N3700 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel 
>> GNU/Linux
>>
>>
>> ...but I've already run...
>>
>> [i3][root][~] emerge --config sys-libs/timezone-data
>>
>> Configuring pkg...
>>
>>  * Updating /etc/localtime with /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern
> 
> The new link is /etc/timezone, not /etc/localtime. I would think if you
> renamed it that problem will go away?

Whoops, I replied a little too quickly on this one. I don't know why it
thinks it's not updated. Someone else may have an idea.

It is odd that it says it's updating. Have you checked to see that it is
symlinked properly?

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, a few problems (or not?)

[Daniel Frey]

On 09/08/2016 09:50 PM, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>   64-bit no-multilib install on a relatively new Dell Inspiron...
> 
> 1) X works OK, but installing x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel finishes off
> with the message...
> 
> ***
> WARN: postinst
> This driver requires KMS support in your kernel
>   Device Drivers --->
> Graphics support --->
>   Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support)  --->
>   <*>   Intel 830M, 845G, 852GM, 855GM, 865G (i915 driver)  --->
>   i915 driver
>   [*]   Enable modesetting on intel by default
> ***
> 
>   Note that make.conf contains...
> VIDEO_CARDS="intel i965"
> ...and X loads the i965 driver, and runs OK.  Why is i915 even mentioned?

You have built the Intel driver in the kernel correct? It is telling you
you didn't build KMS support in your kernel and showing you what needs
to be set in your kernel.

This will probably correct your problem #3, by the way.

> 
> 
> 2) "uname -a" gives the following output...
> 
> [i3][root][~] uname -a
> Linux i3 4.4.6-gentoo #4 SMP Wed Sep 7 17:12:27 Local time zone must be 
> set--see zic m x86_64 Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU N3700 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel 
> GNU/Linux
> 
> 
> ...but I've already run...
> 
> [i3][root][~] emerge --config sys-libs/timezone-data
> 
> Configuring pkg...
> 
>  * Updating /etc/localtime with /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern

The new link is /etc/timezone, not /etc/localtime. I would think if you
renamed it that problem will go away?

> 
> 3) The new machine is not co-operating with my hardware KVM switch.  If
> I select the machine while it's booting up, it works fine.  But if I
> switch away and come back, the VGA video does not work.  I've confirmed
> that the keyboard part of KVM still works...
> * boot up with new machine selected
> * log in as root in text console mode
> * switch away
> * switch back, and there's no video
> * but if I blindly type "poweroff", it shuts down, so keyboard works
> 
>   Ugly hack...  The new machine has VGA and HDMI ports.  My monitor has
> VGA (which the KVM switch uses) and HDMI (and DVI and Displayport?).  I
> can add one more cable to the "rat's nest" under the table.  But
> switching between machines will also require toggling the monitor as
> well as the KVM.

Try building KMS support (and the Intel driver if you haven't) in the
kernel and report back.

> 
> 4) media-libs/x265 took 68 minutes to build on a relatively new 4-core
> Intel Silvermont with 8 gigs of RAM, and X was not running!  Time output
> 
> real68m48.122s
> user87m52.139s
> sys 0m25.027s
> 
>   It got stuck at a few times building "deblock"...
> 
> [ 98%] Building CXX object common/CMakeFiles/common.dir/deblock.cpp.o cd 
> /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source-abi_x86_64.amd64-main10/common
>  && /usr/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++  -DEXPORT_C_API=0 -DHAVE_INT_TYPES_H=1 
> -DHIGH_BIT_DEPTH=1 -DX265_ARCH_X86=1 -DX265_DEPTH=10 -DX265_NS=x265_10bit 
> -DX86_64=1 -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS=1 
> -I/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source/.  
> -I/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source/common 
> -I/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source/encoder 
> -I/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source-abi_x86_64.amd64-main10
>  -DNDEBUG -O2 -march=native -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe 
> -fno-unwind-tables -fno-asynchronous-unwind-tables -fPIC-Wall -Wextra 
> -Wshadow -fPIC -Wno-array-bounds -ffast-math -mstackrealign -fno-exceptions 
> -o CMakeFiles/common.dir/deblock.cpp.o -c 
> /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/x265-1.8-r3/work/x265_11047/source/common/deblock.cpp
> 
>   When I say "stuck", I mean that "top" shows yasm pegging one core at 100%
> 
>   PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRESSHR S  %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
>  3520 portage   20   0  178920 171848   2032 R 100.0  2.1  24:48.70 yasm
>  3749 waltdnes  20   0   21808   2824   2340 R   0.7  0.0   0:03.54 top
> 1 root  20   04188   1564   1460 S   0.0  0.0   0:00.37 init
> 2 root  20   0   0  0  0 S   0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kthreadd
> 
> 

I haven't tried compiling this one so I can't comment on it.


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] New install, can't load modules

[Alan McKinnon]

On 13/07/2015 18:42, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Did a new install, the new kernel can't load modules:

 # modprobe nfsv3
 modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'nfsv3': Exec format error

 Odd. Never had this before. The module file itself is a regular 64-bit
 ELF file, just as it should be (compared to a working module on another
 machine)

 gcc is 4.8.4 as supplied by a recent stage3-amd64-20150709.tar.bz2:
 # gcc -v
 Using built-in specs.
 COLLECT_GCC=/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4/gcc
 COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/libexec/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/lto-wrapper
 Target: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
 Configured with:
 /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.8.4/work/gcc-4.8.4/configure
 --host=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr
 --bindir=/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.8.4
 --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/include
 --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4
 --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/man
 --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/info
 --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/include/g++-v4
 --with-python-dir=/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/python
 --enable-languages=c,c++,fortran --enable-obsolete --enable-secureplt
 --disable-werror --with-system-zlib --enable-nls
 --without-included-gettext --enable-checking=release
 --with-bugurl=https://bugs.gentoo.org/ --with-pkgversion='Gentoo 4.8.4
 p1.6, pie-0.6.1' --enable-libstdcxx-time --enable-shared
 --enable-threads=posix --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu
 --enable-multilib --with-multilib-list=m32,m64 --disable-altivec
 --disable-fixed-point --enable-targets=all --disable-libgcj
 --enable-libgomp --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --enable-lto
 --without-cloog --enable-libsanitizer
 Thread model: posix
 gcc version 4.8.4 (Gentoo 4.8.4 p1.6, pie-0.6.1)

 make.conf seems correct:
 CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
 CFLAGS=-march=native -O2 -pipe
 CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~amd64

 The kernel loads and runs OK:
 # uname -a
 Linux download 4.1.2-gentoo #1 SMP Mon Jul 13 13:28:40 SAST 2015 x86_64
 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2720QM CPU @ 2.20GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

 and the kernel was built with gcc auto-detection:
 # grep NATIVE /boot/config-4.1.2-gentoo
 CONFIG_MNATIVE=y

 and the .config was grabbed from a working machine with very similar
 hardware (one minor hardware upgrade ahead)

 I haven't done a full world update yet, most code is still what's in the
 stage3, but always in the past that hasn't been a problem; the stage
 must successfully build a kernel and load the modules.

 Module loading works just fine when booted from the Gentoo minimal
 install image.

 So, what dumbass n00b error did I make today?


 --
 Alan McKinnon
 alan.mckin...@gmail.com


 
 Does 'modprobe -nv' say anything useful?

It's normal - a list of dependant modules to be insmod'ed

 
 Anything of interest in '/var/log/dmesg'?

Nothing I can see:

# dmesg | egrep -i warn|error
[0.00] ACPI BIOS Warning (bug): 32/64X FACS address mismatch in
FADT: 0xCF7E4E40/0xCF7E4D40, using 32-bit address
(20150410/tbfadt-283)
[1.455621] acpi PNP0A08:00: _OSC failed (AE_ERROR); disabling ASPM
[2.278571] i8042: Warning: Keylock active
[3.798045] EXT3-fs (sdb3): error: couldn't mount because of
unsupported optional features (240)
[3.798411] EXT2-fs (sdb3): error: couldn't mount because of
unsupported optional features (240)


Digging a little deeper, I see that the kernel IS auto-loading modules
on start-up. My e1000e NIC is compiled as a module, and works:

00:19.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit
Network Connection [8086:1502] (rev 04)
DeviceName:  Onboard LAN
Subsystem: Dell Precision M4600 [1028:04a3]
Kernel driver in use: e1000e
Kernel modules: e1000e


lsmod returns null output (just a header line, no data), and modprobe
fails with every module tried so far.

A dim memory is tickling my brain, something about module loading from
userspace post-startup being disabled - I'll google some more.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com