mail postpone
suspend +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
Pathfinder Boards - American Cultural Arrogance
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Pathfinder Boards - FORTUNE'S The Economy and Politics
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. http://boards.pathfinder.com/@@mo7JAgcAVaKruuzM/cgi-bin/webx?13@^43926@.ee7f8d2 AVaKruuzM/cgi-bin/webx?13@^43926@.e e7f8d2" HTMLHEAD !-- Page produced by Web Crossing(tm)/Unix-2.0.2 (http://webx.lundeen.co= m/) for Pathfinder Evaluation-P-- !-- User interface (c)Copyright 1995-97 by Lundeen Associates. All rig= hts reserved.-- titlePathfinder Boards - FORTUNE'S The Economy and Politics/title/HE= AD body bgcolor=3D#ff !--DynamicContent--!-- pfpackage /fortune --!--DEFAULT.TMPL-- TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"0" CELLSPACING=3D"0" WIDTH=3D"580" TR VALIGN=3DTOP TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"470" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPN= OBR!-- AdSpace ^/html.ngspacedesc=3Dfortunepagepos=3D1^ --a href=3D= "/event.ng/Type=3DclickProfileID=3D2350RunID=3D12066AdID=3D7105Redire= ct=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fwww.marketperspectives.com%2Fpathfinder-1-98%2Fsurvey.cgi= %3Fuserinfo%26qnum%3D1%26q-1-0%3D5" target=3D"new"img src=3D"http://www= =2Epathfinder.com/sponsors3/pathfindersurvey/pathfinder_41498_news_ban.gi= f" alt=3D"Pathfinder Survey" BORDER=3D"0"/a#160;/NOBRbr/TD TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"22" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPNOBRA H= REF=3D"/adinfo/" TARGET=3D"_top"IMG = BORDER=3D0 SRC=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/shared/images/ad/adinfo.gif" = WIDTH=3D21 HEIGHT=3D61/A/NOBRbr/TD TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"88" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPNOBRA H= REF=3D"http://www.ownthefortune500.com/index.phtml?source=3Dpathfinder3" = TARGET=3D"_top"IMG = BORDER=3D0 SRC=3D"/shared/images/marketing/1000data.gif" WIDTH=3D88 HEIGH= T=3D60/A/NOBRbr/TD /TR TR VALIGN=3DTOPTD COLSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"580= "NOBR!-- pfnavbar /fortune --!--DEFAULT.TMPL-- TABLE WIDTH=3D"580" BORDER=3D"0" CELLSPACING=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"0" BGC= OLOR=3D"#223FBE" TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" TD WIDTH=3D"3" HEIGHT=3D"33" ROWSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN= =3D"TOP" BGCOLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welc= ome/navbar/images/3x33.gif" WIDTH=3D3 HEIGHT=3D33 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP= " ALT=3D""BR/TD TD WIDTH=3D"574" COLSPAN=3D"5" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" BGC= OLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/i= mages/574x3.gif" WIDTH=3D574 HEIGHT=3D3 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP" ALT=3D""= BR/TD = TD WIDTH=3D"3" HEIGHT=3D"33" ROWSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN= =3D"TOP" BGCOLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welc= ome/navbar/images/3x33.gif" WIDTH=3D3 HEIGHT=3D33 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP= " ALT=3D""BR/TD= /TR TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" TD WIDTH=3D"170" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" NOWRAP !-- Begin Client Side ISMAP (do not remove this line) -- MAP NAME=3D"/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" AREA COORDS=3D"1,1,42,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/de= fault_navbar_time/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/time" TARGET=3D"_top" AREA COORDS=3D"44,1,87,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/d= efault_navbar_people/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/people" TARGET=3D"_top= " AREA COORDS=3D"89,1,133,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/= default_navbar_money/out?http://jcgi.pathfinder.com/money/plus?page=3Dind= ex.oft" TARGET=3D"_top" /MAP !-- End Client Side ISMAP (do not remove this line) -- A HREF=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" TARG= ET=3D"_top"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/images= /tpm1.gif" WIDTH=3D170 HEIGHT=3D27 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"LEFT" ALT=3D"Time = People Money" USEMAP=3D"#/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" ISMAP/A /TD TD WIDTH=3D"200" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"MIDDLE" NOWRAP FORM SELECT NAME=3D"lists" SIZE=3D"1" onChange=3D"window.open(this.options[th= is.selectedIndex].value,'_top'); lists.options[0].selected=3Dtrue" OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_top/o= ut?http://cnn.com"CNN and other sites/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnn/o= ut?http://cnn.com"CNN/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnnsi= /out?http://cnnsi.com"CNNSI/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnnfn= /out?http://cnnfn.com"CNNfn/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_time/= out?http://www.pathfinder.com/time/"TIME/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_timed= aily/out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/daily/"#160;#160;Daily/OPTION= OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_netly= /out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/"#160;#160;Netly News/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_timea= sia/out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/asia"#160;#160;Time Asia/OPTIO= N OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_fortu= ne/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune"FORTUNE/OPTION OPTION
Pathfinder Boards - World Bank IMF Policy Devastates Africa
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. http://boards.pathfinder.com/@@mo7JAgcAVaKruuzM/cgi-bin/webx?13@^1218389@.ee872c9 AVaKruuzM/cgi-bin/webx?13@^1218389@ .ee872c9" HTMLHEAD !-- Page produced by Web Crossing(tm)/Unix-2.0.2 (http://webx.lundeen.co= m/) for Pathfinder Evaluation-P-- !-- User interface (c)Copyright 1995-97 by Lundeen Associates. All rig= hts reserved.-- titlePathfinder Boards - World Bank IMF Policy Devastates Africa/title= /HEAD body bgcolor=3D#ff !--DynamicContent--!-- pfpackage /fortune --!--DEFAULT.TMPL-- TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"0" CELLSPACING=3D"0" WIDTH=3D"580" TR VALIGN=3DTOP TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"470" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPN= OBR!-- AdSpace ^/html.ngspacedesc=3Dfortunepagepos=3D1^ --a href=3D= "/event.ng/Type=3DclickProfileID=3D2350RunID=3D12066AdID=3D7105Redire= ct=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fwww.marketperspectives.com%2Fpathfinder-1-98%2Fsurvey.cgi= %3Fuserinfo%26qnum%3D1%26q-1-0%3D5" target=3D"new"img src=3D"http://www= =2Epathfinder.com/sponsors3/pathfindersurvey/pathfinder_41498_news_ban.gi= f" alt=3D"Pathfinder Survey" BORDER=3D"0"/a#160;/NOBRbr/TD TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"22" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPNOBRA H= REF=3D"/adinfo/" TARGET=3D"_top"IMG = BORDER=3D0 SRC=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/shared/images/ad/adinfo.gif" = WIDTH=3D21 HEIGHT=3D61/A/NOBRbr/TD TD VALIGN=3DTOP ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"88" HEIGHT=3D60 NOWRAPNOBRA H= REF=3D"http://www.ownthefortune500.com/index.phtml?source=3Dpathfinder3" = TARGET=3D"_top"IMG = BORDER=3D0 SRC=3D"/shared/images/marketing/1000data.gif" WIDTH=3D88 HEIGH= T=3D60/A/NOBRbr/TD /TR TR VALIGN=3DTOPTD COLSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"580= "NOBR!-- pfnavbar /fortune --!--DEFAULT.TMPL-- TABLE WIDTH=3D"580" BORDER=3D"0" CELLSPACING=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"0" BGC= OLOR=3D"#223FBE" TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" TD WIDTH=3D"3" HEIGHT=3D"33" ROWSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN= =3D"TOP" BGCOLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welc= ome/navbar/images/3x33.gif" WIDTH=3D3 HEIGHT=3D33 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP= " ALT=3D""BR/TD TD WIDTH=3D"574" COLSPAN=3D"5" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" BGC= OLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/i= mages/574x3.gif" WIDTH=3D574 HEIGHT=3D3 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP" ALT=3D""= BR/TD = TD WIDTH=3D"3" HEIGHT=3D"33" ROWSPAN=3D"3" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN= =3D"TOP" BGCOLOR=3D"#00"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welc= ome/navbar/images/3x33.gif" WIDTH=3D3 HEIGHT=3D33 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"TOP= " ALT=3D""BR/TD= /TR TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" TD WIDTH=3D"170" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"TOP" NOWRAP !-- Begin Client Side ISMAP (do not remove this line) -- MAP NAME=3D"/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" AREA COORDS=3D"1,1,42,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/de= fault_navbar_time/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/time" TARGET=3D"_top" AREA COORDS=3D"44,1,87,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/d= efault_navbar_people/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/people" TARGET=3D"_top= " AREA COORDS=3D"89,1,133,26" HREF=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/= default_navbar_money/out?http://jcgi.pathfinder.com/money/plus?page=3Dind= ex.oft" TARGET=3D"_top" /MAP !-- End Client Side ISMAP (do not remove this line) -- A HREF=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" TARG= ET=3D"_top"IMG SRC=3D"http://image.pathfinder.com/welcome/navbar/images= /tpm1.gif" WIDTH=3D170 HEIGHT=3D27 BORDER=3D0 ALIGN=3D"LEFT" ALT=3D"Time = People Money" USEMAP=3D"#/welcome/navbar/images/tpm1.map" ISMAP/A /TD TD WIDTH=3D"200" ALIGN=3D"LEFT" VALIGN=3D"MIDDLE" NOWRAP FORM SELECT NAME=3D"lists" SIZE=3D"1" onChange=3D"window.open(this.options[th= is.selectedIndex].value,'_top'); lists.options[0].selected=3Dtrue" OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_top/o= ut?http://cnn.com"CNN and other sites/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnn/o= ut?http://cnn.com"CNN/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnnsi= /out?http://cnnsi.com"CNNSI/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_cnnfn= /out?http://cnnfn.com"CNNfn/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_time/= out?http://www.pathfinder.com/time/"TIME/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_timed= aily/out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/daily/"#160;#160;Daily/OPTION= OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_netly= /out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/"#160;#160;Netly News/OPTION OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_timea= sia/out?http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/asia"#160;#160;Time Asia/OPTIO= N OPTION VALUE=3D"http://pathfinder.com/r0/navigation/default_navbar_fortu= ne/out?http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune"FORTUNE/OPTION OPTION
effective protection: 5 minutes lecture
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--_-1333260898==_
+Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work +
+Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home +
+Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 +
+University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +
+Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
--_-1333260898==_--
Re: Marx, Carey, and India First half of first part
Just so there isn't any confusion. I decoded Michael's article and sent it out as regular text today. It is a titanic work of scholarship. Michael, was it ever published? Louis Proyect Louis, thanks for the selfless job. Fikret. +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
Re: URPE Web page
http://economics.csusb.edu/orgs/URPE/urpehome.html
[PEN-L:11833] Is Capitalism Sustainable? Why not?
Is Capitalism Sustainable? Let's hope not, or rather let's do our best to make sure that it continues to be able to sustain itself for as short a time as possible. "Sustainable Capitalism" is a nightmare.(That includes "sustainable development" because "development" has always meant capitalist development.) Economists, as a rule, don't worry about whether or not it is sustainable in theory; they are hard at work doing their best to make it so for as long as possible. What do you expect? It's what economics has always been about. For one take on "sustainablity" see url: http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/port.html ... Harry Cleaver ... I think it is important to spell out logically why it is not sustainable. What does it undermine its demise? In our answers we cannot think infinite time framework as Shawgi Tell expressed. Our answer should not just appeal to any authority, including Karl Marx. Appealing to authority is cop-out. 300 years history has shown that capitalism is flexible, self-adjusting, self-renewing, and quite revolutionary system. Why would it not last another 100 or 200 years? We wish that it does not last that long, but our wish should be separate from our analysis. Fikret. ++++++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:11398] Re: Sustainable Development, Complexity theory, and Economics
Dear Penlrs, I'm starting a new research project, and I need to get up to speed on the latest thinking about sustainable development. Anybody have any reading suggestions (particularly things I can find on-line, since the libraries in Syracuse are fairly limited)? I'm trying to use ecology / sustainable development as a metaphor. Also, has anyone in economics done research using complexity theory that's reasonably accessible? I know Kenneth Arrow was doing some work, but I was curious who else has done interesting research. Anders Schneiderman Progressive Communications Check out HUMAN DEVELOPMENT REPORT, 1996 by the United Nations. It contains sections and articles about sustainable economic development. Fikret. +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:11064] Re: Globalization From Below (fwd)
Michael Perelman wrote: Call for papers: abstracts due October 15th 1997 Possible keynotes: James Scott, Paolo Virno, Mary Louise Pratt, Toni Negri Negri? Anyone know his whereabouts, geographically and politically, these days? Doug Harry Cleaver might know him. Harry translated Negri's MARX AND BEYOND MARX. Fikret. +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:11034] Doug's Paradox for K/Y ratios
Fikret Ceyhun wrote: One other possible explanation for low capital output ratio in the United States is that K/Ys are correlated with Marx' concept of the organic composition of capital. When organic composition of capital is low then the rate of profit is high, assuming that the rate of surplus value is the same (or not lower). Since statistically profit rates are higher in the U.S. then OCC must be low. Well, that's what I was thinking, though obviously I was using bourgeois statistics, doubtless to the consternation of Jerry Levy. But we're talking about the country that's been the dominant capitalist power for almost a century. Isn't the OCC supposed to rise over time? Doug Here,Doug presents a pardox by saying: "But we're talking about the country that's been the dominant capitalist power for almost a century. Isn't the OCC supposed to rise over time?" I will try to untangle this paradox. 1. The OCC has been rising for the United States since the 1950s. According to statistics that I have compiled from FORTUNE 500 LARGEST INDUSTRIAL CORPORATIONS, the K/L ratio in real dollars rose from $14,000 in 1954 to $232,000 in 1993. Similar rise is observed in K/L for the 50 LARGEST INDUSTRIAL CORPORATIONS, from $70,000 in 1959 to $281,000 in 1994. The OCC does rise over time for the US as well as for other OECD countries. From this we cannot generalize for every sector, but I believe it is a general tendency, except in services. 2. The cross-country statistics cited by Doug for 1996. I do not know whether K/Y is declining for the US over long period or just the short period. If the K/Y is declining for some time, then the answer should be sought in "Hollow Corporations." As BUSINESS WEEK says, "Large segments of American industry. . . have been abandoning manufacturing in the US. They have, in effect, become collections of hollow corporations that serve as assemblers and distributors for components or entire products made abroad. This trend is sapping the vitality and undermining the future of US industry. . . . The message is simple. US producers can compete more effectively with their foreign rivals by making an ironclad commitment to manufacturing. By investing in the US rather than abroad and moving as quickly as feasible to computer-integrated manufacturing, they can regain their comparative advantage in quality and cost." 3. Marx's counter-tendencies: I appologize for long digression here, but it is important to make my point clear. As we know capitalism as a social organization is a class society and the class relationship between capital and labor is fundamentally antagonistic, and this antagonism leads to class struggle over the distribution of surplus value as well as working rules. At the center of capitalism lies production for market, and capitalist production is driven by profit. The search for profit is the primary occupation of the owners of capital. Competition for profit is the driving force of capital accumulation, and the rate of profit is an important gauge for accumulation and investment decisions in various industries and regions. Since capital accumulation is motivated by profitability, declining profitability means declining rates of accumulation and increasingly fierce competition among (national and international) capitalists for markets, materials and cheap labor-power. However, capitalism is a powerful and highly flexible social structure. Capitalists never lay dead, and they have strategies in their possession to deal with a profitability crisis. When they succeed in doing this, profitability may return to revive their ability to invest in new means of production. According to Mandel, " The rate of profit can fluctuate under the influence of countervailing forces. Constant capital can be devalorized, through 'capital saving' technical process, and through economic crises. The rate of surplus-value can be strongly increased in the short or medium term. . . . capital can flow to countries (e.g. Third World ones) or branches (e.g. service sectors) where the organic composition of capital is significantly lower than in the previously industrialized ones, thereby raising the average rate of profit." Shaikh says that "various counteracting influences act to slow down and even temporarily reverse the falling rate of profit. Higher intensity of exploitation, lower wages, cheaper constant capital, the growth of relatively low organic composition industries, the importation of cheap wage goods or means of production, and the migration of capital to areas of cheap labor and natural resources can all act to raise the rate of profit by raising the rate of exploitation and/or lowering the organic composition of capital. But precisely because the counter-tendencies operate within strict limits, the secular fall in the rate of profit emerges as the dominant tendency ." According Foley , Marx had fiv
[PEN-L:10980] Re: K/Y ratios
Sorry if the subject heading seems racier than it turns out to be... Anyway, what, if anything, does it mean that the U.S. has the lowest capital/output ratio in the OECD? Here are some numbers for 1996, from the OECD in Figures, 1997 edition: CAPITAL/OUTPUT RATIO, BUSINESS SECTOR, 1996 Australia 2.87 Austria 3.71 Belgium 2.89 Canada 2.46 Denmark 3.87 Finland 3.57 France 2.93 Germany 2.75 Greece 2.48 Ireland 2.09 Italy 2.82 Japan 2.55 Netherlands 2.18 Norway 3.43 Spain 2.60 Sweden 2.89 Switzerland 3.21 UK 2.81 US 1.91 Doug I guess it could mean one of two things: (1) Capital intensive firms in the US somehow are really more productive; (2) Relative to other countries, the US has had more productivity gains through speed-ups than through mechanization. Is this a trick question? Curious, Tavis One other possible explanation for low capital output ratio in the United States is that K/Ys are correlated with Marx' concept of the organic composition of capital. When organic composition of capital is low then the rate of profit is high, assuming that the rate of surplus value is the same (or not lower). Since statistically profit rates are higher in the U.S. then OCC must be low. Fikret.
[PEN-L:9226] IRIS PEN
Michael Perelman: I mentioned this before, but iris pen makes a pen scanner that you can take to the library with a notebook computer. It is probably not as accurate as a flat bed, but I can scan in much the same way that I could highlight one of my books. What kind of pen is it? What is the price? Where can we order it? Can you give more information? Fikret
[PEN-L:8966] Info sought
Does anyone know e-mail or other address of Alwyn Young, who made a study of economic growth for 100+ countries and where his work was published? Evidently Paul Krugman's article, "The Myth of the Asian Miracle," is based on the evidence that Young obtained. Thanks in advance. Fikret. ++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:8937] Re: New SSA in place?
At 12:42 PM -0800 3/14/97, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug, I sure hope you didn't get the impression I was *endorsing* the WSJ newsitorial?! Because if you did, perhaps I will post a clarification. Heavens no Blair. I was reacting to the celebration of the American way of life that's all the rage. Doug Oh, good. The JOURNAL is among my favorite print media, but entirely as a source of humor. (Black humor, to be sure.) :) Blair _ Blair Sandler "If I had to choose a reductionist paradigm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Classical Marxism is a damned good one." _ Blair, Can you give us the reference of the WSJ issue. Thanks, Fikret
[PEN-L:8885] Adresler
Dilek, merhaba again. Ugur ve Bulent'in adreslerini aceleyle unuttum. Ugur Aker'in adresi: 6860 Cheryl Dr. P.O. Box 351 Hiram, OH 44234 Telefon: (330) 569-3494 ev (330) 569-5142 off (330) 569-5130 fax e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] office [EMAIL PROTECTED] ev === Bulent Uyar'in adresi: Dept. of Economics 219 Business Building Univ. of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, IA 50614 Telefon: (319)234-2559 ev (319)273-6343 office e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sevgiler, Fikret.
[PEN-L:7939] Louis Proyect and Socialism
Dear Comrades, Bill Koehnlein's film review post (by Mitchel Cohen in Z Magazine) about Che Guevara and Louis Proyect's response started good discussion on socialism in Cuba and elsewhere. Jim Devine's mild response to Louis attracted other bystanders into the discussion. Unfortunately, the discussion was quickly degenerated because of ill-temperaments. Before I ask a question about socialism from above/below, I would like to make a comment about the tone of our discussions and intolerance shown to those with whom we disagree. This raises a question in my mind. We are generally homogenous group of left leaning intellectuals. Often we take the role of being vanguard. We each have in our mind a kind of socialist society that we dream and in some way we orchestrate our praxis toward that goal. The puzzling question is: if we can't get along comradely with each other as a small homogenous group of like minded people, how we can get along and live in a socialist society that we want to create, a society that is very heterogeneous? A society that we want to build has all kind of people, all kind of races, religions, colors, languages, etc. How are we going to tolerate those who are utterly different from us? Some of our neighbors would be shepherds, auto-mechanics, farmers, preachers, teachers, truck drivers, insurance salesperson, skin heads, etc. All those people are going to have different values, knowledge, tolerance level, habits, etc. How are we all going to work together to build a future society that we idealize? Now, let me turn to the socialism discussion. I find comments about Che and his Cuban revolution as well as revolutions in other parts of the world are illuminating in general, but disengaged from reality. As if we are living in a different planet that is accidentally called "utopia." Can we bring our feet to touch the ground here? All third world revolutions are called socialist revolution from above. I would like to know a definition of socialist revolution from below. How is it made? Who makes it? Are there blue-prints of it available somewhere? How is it supposed to happen? Are we going to hold referendum for it? Are we going to ask peasants to vote for the revolution? Are we going to go to every factory to hold election? Are we looking for 51% approval in order to call it socialist revolution from below? A 75% or 100%? What are we looking for? Are we looking for every peasant, farmer, farm worker, factory worker, teacher, civil servant to quit their work and grab arms against landowners and capitalists? With whom Che Guevara was fighting in Bolivian jungles? Who were fighting along with Mao in China, with Ho in Vietnam? Who were those people fighting with Fidel and Che? In the 1930s, more than 95% of the Chinese population was in rural areas and most of those were peasants. Do you think Mao or Fidel and Che were fighting with factory workers? With intellectuals? There is no such thing as spontaneous uprising or revolution. Social changes were always brought about step by step and gradually, and not spontaneously. And these social changes were always started by a group of individuals most of whom were working class people, not intellectuals. There were not (and are not) enough intellectuals to carry out actual fighting. It does not mean that there were no intellectuals among the fighting people. There were, and most of those involved with strategy of fighting. I would love to see answers to these questions. These are the questions worth discussing. Sometimes we have tendency to engage in discussing stultifying questions which marginalize most of the people in the list. In Struggle for peace and justice for all. Fikret. PS. In late October/early November, I introduced Nader candidacy for president, not necessarily expecting the establishment of spontaneous socialism by Nader or anybody else. I used the name of Ralph Nader as a generic candidate. Nader was not going to establish socialism as we understand, but his election would have established conditions conducive for socialist struggles. Nader candidacy was summarily dismissed by some of us as irrelevant for socialism, rather than discussing why his election would or would not promote or lead to socialism. *+++++* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:7527] Re: On Marxism
"If the construction of the future and its completion for all time is not our task, all the more certain is what we must accomplish in the present; I mean, the ruthless criticism of everything that exists; the criticism being ruthless in the sense that it neither fears its own results nor fears conflict with the powers that be." I believe the quote is found in a letter from Marx to the left-Hegelian Arnold Ruge (who was the oldest of the Young Hegelians if memory serves) in 1843 or 44...Michael I am sorry. I was wrong. I have a different version of the quote, and I don't know the source of it either. Here it is: "Since it is not for us to create a plan for the future that will hold for all time, all the more surely what we contemporaries have to do is the uncompromising critical evaluation of all that exists, uncompromising in the sense that our criticism fears neither its own results nor the conflict with the powers that be." Fikret. *+++++* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:7501] Re: On Marxism
In light of this whole pomo/anti-pomo discussion, I am reminded of one of my favorite quotes of Marx I believe from a from letter to Kugelmann in 1871: "If the construction of the future and its completion for all time is not our task, all the more certain is what we must accomplish in the present; I mean, the ruthless criticism of everything that exists; the criticism being ruthless in the sense that it neither fears its own results nor fears conflict with the powers that be." Jim Craven Jim, I think the quote is from Marx's "Theses on Feuerbach." There are 11 theses. I don't have the resources with me to check it. When I go home, I'll check it. Fikret. ++++++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:7464] Re: Fwd: Zapatistas
I thought someone here might be able to help this person. Cindy Cotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Forwarded message: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Talya Tibbon) Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Computer-assisted Reporting Research) Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Computer-assisted Reporting Research) Date: 96-11-18 19:08:23 EST Hi, I'm looking for information about the Zapatistas movement in Chiapas, Mexico and particularly on their online activity. Does anyone know if they have an e-mail address in the jungle? Talya Tibbon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Contact Harry Cleaver: "Harry M. Cleaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:7284] Unproductive worker REVISITED
Elections were distraction from normalcy. Now that my Nader campaign is over. I can return to my routine. Reading my e-mail I saw many comments and suggestions to my question and request about dental hygienist. First, I must thank to those who commented on my question and informed that she is neither blue-collar nor white-collar, but pink collar worker. Let me return to the other important question: is my hygienist "unproductive" laborer? I believe she is, and here are my reasons. First, I will try to provide a workable definition for productive/unproductive labor and then comment briefly on comments. We all agree that any transaction that requires human labor does not necessarily add to the social surplus value. Those labor that add to the total output from social point of view is called "productive labor," and those that do not add to the total output is called "unproductive labor." In general, labor that produces surplus value over and above its cost (i.e. labor power) is productive labor, because it contributes to the accumulation of capital. On the other hand, a labor that does not produce surplus value and does not contribute to capital accumulation is unproductive labor. One that adds to social wealth and the other just distributes/consumes it. Unproductive labor could produce a surplus value to a particular business (or capitalist), but it is unproductive from social point of view because it does not increase social wealth. Examples, an attorney employed by a law firm, a guard, a detective, an advertising person employed by the respected firms are all unproductive even though they provide surplus value to their employers. Their activities involve in distribution rather than creation of social wealth. Hence, unproductive labor distributes/consumes value rather than adds to it. Labor being important or vital or crucial does not necessarily make it productive. For example, social welfare expenditures for health, education, roads, parks, etc. are all vital, but those who work in these activities do not produce social surplus value. A scientist doing important basic research or state bureaucracy which maintains and preserves capitalist society, imperial army helps to reproduce capitalist society, or the president. These are all vital to the capitalist system, yet their labor is unproductive. These activities are very useful to capitalist society, but they do not produce social surplus value. They consume it. This does not mean that only productive workers are subject to exploitation. Unproductive workers are also exploited in same way as the productive workers. Capitalism is a society based on exploitation of one class over the other. It is a class society and workers are exploited without being differentiated as productive or unproductive. Now let us view my dental hygienist. She cleans teeth. What does social surplus value she produce? Even though she is exploited by her employer, she involves in distribution of the social surplus value. The service she provides is not a commodity that is sold for profit on the market. Just like a scientist doing a basic research, or a teacher teaching students in science and engineering. For further discussion of the subject see: K. Marx, Capital, I: 642 (Vintage ed.) B. Fine and L. Harris. Rereading Capital: Ch. 3. D. Foley, Understanding Capital, 118-22. __ , A Dictionary of Marxist Thought: 397-98. F. Moseley. Falling Rate of Profit in the Postwar United States: 34-38. A. Shaikh and A. Tonak. Measuring the Wealth of Nations. 29-31. RESPONSES TO COMMENTS: Answer to Jerry Levy: Fikret Ceyhun wrote: The other day I was at my dentist's office for checkup and cleaning. As the dental assistant was scraping my teeth I was thinking: is she blue collar or white collar worker? I know she is "unproductive" worker. Can someone care to comment? (1) The color of a person's collar (blue, white, pink) does not determine whether one's labour is productive or unproductive [of surplus value]. (2) Why do you "know" she is an unproductive worker? She's not working for the state and being paid out of state revenues (unless there are state-run dental services in North Dakota). She's not part of management, is she? Her labour isn't for the purposes of realizing surplus value (e.g. advertising), is it? Jerry My above examples of law firm, or scientist, or a detective assistant shed light on this question. For instance, Foley says that scientists and engineers working in basic research, creating fundamental knowledge which increases future standard of living are not productive workers, because they do not produce a commodity directly sold on the market. The resources (laboratory assistants, equipment and space) they use in the form of their own wages, are formally paid out of surplus value in modern corporations. Thus, their labor is unproductive. Let us be sure, capitalist society is no
[PEN-L:7232] Vote for Nader
Hi Everybody! Tomorrow is the day. Don't forget to vote for our guy, N A D E R. Fikret +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:7068] White collar/unproductive worker?
Hi Folks! The other day I was at my dentist's office for checkup and cleaning. As the dental assistant was scraping my teeth I was thinking: is she blue collar or white collar worker? I know she is "unproductive" worker. Can someone care to comment? Fikret ++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:7074] Political Pitch for Ralph Nader
the right direction. Nader ran as a write in non-candidate--none of the above in 1992 election to break the DemRep taboos. Nader wants a civic rebellion in Jefferson style. In his campaign in 1992, he said: Without a reconstruction of our democracy in order to ensure facilities for informed civic participation to all citizens, no ambitious program of political and economic change will succeed. Nor can worries about poverty, discrimination, joblessness, the troubled conditions of education, environment, street and suite crime, budget deficits, costly and inadequate health care, and energy boondoggles be addressed in a constructive and enduring way. The purpose of a populist crusade, he said in 1992, is "not just to feed the hungry--who'll be needing another meal in six hours--or to shelter the homeless--who'll be out on the street tomorrow--but to provide opportunities for education, employment and low-cost housing that will free these people from the cycle of poverty. The key is to go for systematic change." Nader's willingness, as a prominent advocate of consumer and worker protection, to defy the two-party system is an important service to break the political logjam. And his success with our votes is a great service to the people who rescue the political process from corrupt professional politicians and their wealthy backers. VOTE FOR NADER AND DON'T VOTE FOR REPUBOCRAT. Fikret PS: I sent a copy of this piece to our local paper whose editor declined to publish it on the ground that Nader is not on the ballot in North Dakota. *+* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:7043] Re: AIUSA responds to allegations of unionbusting
I have been a supporter of AI but I am not going to contribute to any organization that defends Taft-Hartley. --Nathan Newman Ditto. Fikret +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:6915] Re: Off Limits: USA
This is a very good proposal to give us one day a week for picnic. I would like to add to his proposal this one: We should have one day a week "European Forum," One day "Asian Forum," and one day "Third World Forum." We shoud set aside one day to air each forum. The US posters should be silent just one day a week so that we can hear other voices and other peoples' concerns. Fikret Okay the netherlands is in europe - i know that. japan is in asia - i know that ghana is in the (i hate this colonialist term) "the third world" - i know that so where is OZ svp? in all three probably! kind regards bill I am sorry for the omission. We'll make a fourth category for Australia/New Zealand. Fikret ++++++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:6885] Re: rising rate of profit?
Doug Henwood wrote: RATES OF RETURN ON CAPITAL IN THE BUSINESS SECTOR from OECD Economic Outlook, June 1996, table A25 197919891995 U.S.16.017.318.3 Japan 14.415.813.3 Germany 11.712.513.8 G7 average 14.315.716.2 12 smaller countries 13.214.614.9 OECD-Europe 12.113.614.6 all OECD14.215.616.0 And you a Marxist! Doug, theory tells us that the rate of profit falls over time. These data must be incorrect! ;-) Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] It depends how you calculate the rate of profit. Different definitions give different results. Fikret *+* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:6904] Re: Off Limits: USA
Michael wrote: Tomorrow, I hope that I can remember myself, I am going to ask all posters from the U.S. to hold off posting to pen-l to encourage those from other countries to introduce themselves or to tell us how pen-l could serve them better. We have probably 100 people from outside of the U.S. We get quite a bit from Canada, some from OZ or NZ, and occassionaly something from Europe. Let's hear from you. --- This is a very good proposal to give us one day a week for picnic. I would like to add to his proposal this one: We should have one day a week "European Forum," One day "Asian Forum," and one day "Third World Forum." We shoud set aside one day to air each forum. The US posters should be silent just one day a week so that we can hear other voices and other peoples' concerns. Fikret *+++++++++* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:6614] Re: competitiveness
If the rate of profit falls, then there are Marx's counter-tendencies in operation. Namely, workers' pay on the line as well as outsourcing by MNCs among other things. When profits are falling, capitalists don't lay dead. In their closets there are many options. +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:6620] Competitiveness
Doug said: How do we know there's been a sharper concentration? Thirty years ago, there were three major players in the U.S. auto market; now there are what, 5 or 10? I sat at a conference a few weeks ago and listened to someone denouncing the increased monopolization of world trade by 40,000 multinational corporations. 40,000? Even allowing for 100 industrial sectors, we're talking 400 per. Do a Herfindahl on that one! Another question - did the textbook world of perfect competition ever really exist? Or has something like oligpolistic competition been the only real historically existing kind? Doug In an article, "The Limits of the Earth," by David Korten in "The Nation" (July 15/22, 1996) domestic as well as international concentration is heavy and increasing.He says, "five companies now control more than 50 percent of the global market in the following industries: consumer durables, automotive, airlines, aerospace, electronic components,electricity and electronics, and steel. Five corporations control more than 40 percent of the global market in oil, personal computers and--especially alarming in its consequences for public debate on these very issues--media." There are other interesting statistics cited by the article, which questions the achievement of the Bretton Woods system that launched "globalization" with dire consequences. The article says: "The Fortune 500 firms shed 4.4 million jobs between 1980 and 1993, but during this same period, their sales increased 1.4 times, assets increased 2.3 times and CEO compensation increased 6.1 times. . . . Those same corporations employ 1/20th of 1 percent of the world's population, but control 25 percent of the world's output and 70 percent of world trade." It seems to me we should not just look at how many (like 40,000) MNCs there are, but control of the few. I have seen statistics somewhere else where 1,000 MNCs control the bulk of the world,'s output, trade and investment.So the remaining 39,000 contribute very little to total sales. Fikret. ++++++++ +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:3541] David M. Gordon Memorial
Many who knew David Gordon personally told us their experiences with him. Some gave us their vivid memories with him. I, on the other hand, knew David through his activities at URPE. His contribution to URPE is invaluable during the fledgling years of the organization. For years David managed URPE meetings at ASSA, participated in plenary sessions in crisis theory when the 1980s crisis was raging under the cruel regime of Reaganomics. He articulated very well his interpretation of the crisis. David's premature death is a big loss to all of us in general and to URPE in particular. We all will miss him. We could relive his legacy and brand of Marxism that he represented by honoring him in a manner that fits to him. I believe URPE should schedule an event for his memory in next URPE-ASSA meetings and a lecture series about his works and his approach in annual URPE meeting, the one like Richard T. Ely Lecture that AEA organizes. In addition, the editorial board of RRPE should announce a special issue in his honor and ask contributions from those who are associated with his works and also from those who are critical of David's analysis. I strongly believe in establishing a tradition of honoring those who have made significant contributions to Marxian analysis and are no longer among us so that their legacy can be kept alive to future generations. Our bourgeois colleagues already have such traditions of honoring their members and we could not do less. Fikret Ceyhun +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:3543] Intolerance has no place
I am appalled by the intolerance shown against one member of this
group. I always pride ourselves on the left as tolerant, democracy loving,
multiracial and multicultural people who entertain different thoughts
whether those thoughts we agree or not. We are not a monolithic group,
first. And secondly, there is no place for AD HOMINEM arguments here. This
medium is a platform to debate ideas and issues, whether those ideas are to
our liking or not. If we don't agree with those ideas, at least courtesy
requires that we try to disprove or be quiet. But don't prevent others to
read or be exposed to them. Nobody has god-giving role to decide what we
should read and what we should not. Let us not become like religious right
to censor the media whether it is print, TV or internet. As the saying
goes: "treat others as you would have them treat you." Or if you find some
piece to be offensive, you have a choice of not reading, just like
switching TV channels. But, don't deny other for the opportunity to read
and discuss.
I have been observing postings on PEN-L for quite long time and the
group have discussed wide variety of issues. Why some of us can't now
discuss the issues that Shawgi Tell raises if desired so. Shawgi does not
force anybody to read or discuss his postings. Or is it that some of us
have more privilege to choose what topics to be discussed? I have a grave
concern for the narrow-mindedness and such narrow-mindedness has no place
here. Let us act like mature intellects.
Fikret Ceyhun
++++
+Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work +
+Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home +
+Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 +
+University Station, Box 8369e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +
+Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA +
[PEN-L:2647] Re: globalization
Hugo,
This is how we got from you. Try it again.
Fikret.
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[PEN-L:2017] Minimum wage revisited
Dear PENers,
I want to run some simulations concerning the wage rate and rate
of profit in manufacturing, by using "profit squeeze" hypothesis.
The symbols:r = (Y-W)/K = (y-w)/k
Where: r=rate of profit in manufacturing
Y=manufacturing output; W=wages in manufacturing;
K=capital stock in manufacturing.
y=Y/L (average productivity per man-hour);
w=W/L (average hourly wage rate);
k=K/L (capital-labor ratio)
L=employment in man-hours
To run simulations I need employment figure in "man-hours" or
"human-hours" from 1950 or 1960 to present. I have data for L in persons,
not in man-hours. I suppose I could crudely estimate man-hours employment
data multiplying (L in persons) by (average weekly hours) by (52 or
50).But that would be too crude to have any relevance.
Are there anybody out there who know the employment data in
manufacturing in terms of man-hours?
Many thanks in advance.
Happy holidays
Fikret
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office
University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home
Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1680] Re: Aglietta
Riccardo Bellofiore's comment is attached at the end. Last summer, I have read some works by French Marxists who belong to "Regulation School." Below I'll give the references. My impression of these writers is that they do very serious work in Marxian tradition. The posting by Riccardo Bellofiore is very informative, but critical. I do not know how many would agree with Riccardo's critical points. Fred Moseley, who edited "Limits of Regulation," a special issue of INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF POLITICAL ECONOMY, volume 18, no. 2 (Summer 1988) has an excellent introduction essay. He says that Michel Aglietta, Robert Boyer and Alain Lipietz are representative of the Paris-based "Regulation School." On the other hand, Gerard de Bernis and others represent a second stream of regulation theory based in Grenoble. Here are two synopses from Fred's introduction: "Alain Lipietz's essay is an excellent representative of the Paris-based 'regulation school' . . . The chief conclusion of Lipietz's analysis is that the main cause of the decline of the rate of profit during this period was the slowdown in productivity growth which began in the mid-1960s. This productivity slowdown caused both a decline in the share of profit in total income and a decline in the output-capital ratio, both of which led in turn to lthe decline of the rate of profit. Lipietz's explanation of the decline in the rate of profit is thus similar to that presented by Wolff (1986)." "Gerard de Bernis represents a second stream of regulation theory, based in Grenoble. In general, the theorists of this group adhere more rigorously to lthe basic concepts of Marx's theory (such as the labor theory of value and social capital). De Bernis's article, like Lipietz's, begins with a summary of theoretical principles, which are then applied to the current crisis. . . . De Bernis's approach are what he calls the 'two laws of profit' (both based on Marx): the tendency of the rate of profit to fall and the tendency toward the equalization of profit rates across industries and firms." Hugo, you seem to be skeptical of the work by "Regulation School." Do you know any particularwork by them which lead you to such conclusion? Alan (Freeman), you seem to be close to this school geographically/theoretically (am I wrong?). Could you give us your assessment of them and their work? Your comment will be very much appreciated. Doug, I believe you have radio program. Why don't you invite Michel Aglietta to your program and ask him about Regulation School and his position now. Then, we would have first hand information rather than having second guess. REFERENCES: Aglietta, Michel. 1979. A Theory of Capitalist Regulation: The US Experience. London: New Left Books. De Bernis, Gerard Destanne. 1988. Proposition for Analysis of the Crisis. in Fred Moseley (ed.). Limits of Regulation 18(2): 44-67. __ . 1990. On a Marxian Theory of Regulation. Monthly Review. (January): 28-37. Dumenil, Gerard, Mark Glick and Jose Rangel. 1985. The Tendency of The Rate of Profit to Fall in the United States. Part II: The Pattern of Irreversibility. Contemporary Marxism. (Fall): 138-152. Dumenil, Gerard and Dominique Levy. 1993. The Economics of The Profit Rate: Competition, Crises and Historical Tendencies in Capitalism. Brookfield, Vermont: Edward Elgar Publishing Company. Lipetz, Alain. 1986. Behind the Crisis: The Exhaustion of a Regime of Accumulation. A 'Regulation School' Perspective on Some French Empirical Works. Review of Radical Political Economics. 18(12): 13-32. __. 1988. Accumulation, Crises, and Ways Out: Some Methodological Reflections on the Concept of 'Regulation.' In Fred Moseley (ed.) Limits of Regulation. __. 1989. The Debt Problem, European Integration and the New Phase of World Crisis. New Left Review 178(Nov-Dec): 37-50. Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099 On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Riccardo Bellofiore wrote: As always within Marxians, if you have three guys you have four opinions. Thus I try to join in with still another perspective on Aglietta. Aglietta wrote a very important thesis (a troisieme cicle thesis, which is similar though not identical to the Ph.D.) in *1974* - the thesis can be read at the Bibliotheque Cujas, the library of law and economics of the Universite' de Paris I. The collective discussion on the thesis helped to define the Paris version of the regulation school (there is also a Grenoble branch around G. Destanne de Bernis, with their own terminology and their more orthodox, communist-pa
[PEN-L:1671] Re: Minimum wages in real terms
Jerry made two points on Paul's point. Summarizing those two points I
have expressed disagreement with the second, which was reproduced by Dan
Epstein as:
2) Reduction in corporate profitability would cause capital
out-migration.
Then he offers the following comments:
Is that so? Capital invested in, say, McDonalds or other service
sector businesses would move their franchises elsewhere, outside of
the US, if the minimum wage was dramatically increased? This begs t
he questions: Does anyone know what percentage of minimum wage jobs
are "tied to the land?"
Of course, that is so. Because no capital moves anywhere if the
move is not profitable. Have we demonstrated that the move (due to
minimum wage rise) is profitable?
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office
University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home
Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1672] Re: Minimum wages in real terms
Please let us base our discussion on correct numbers. Here they are: MINIMUM WAGE current 19501995CPICPI YEAR$ $ $ 1995=100;19950=100 19500.750.754.8415.5100.0 19510.750.704.4916.7107.9 19520.750.684.4017.0110.0 19530.750.684.3717.2110.8 19540.750.674.3417.3111.6 19550.750.674.3517.2111.2 19561.000.895.7217.5112.9 19571.000.865.5418.1116.6 19581.000.835.3818.6119.9 19591.000.835.3518.7120.7 19601.000.815.2619.0122.8 19611.150.935.9819.2124.1 19621.150.925.9319.4125.3 19631.250.986.3619.7127.0 19641.250.976.2719.9128.6 19651.250.966.1720.2130.7 19661.250.936.0020.8134.4 19671.401.016.5221.5138.6 19681.601.117.1522.4144.4 19691.601.056.7823.6152.3 19701.600.996.4224.9161.0 19711.600.956.1526.0168.0 19721.600.925.9626.9173.4 19731.600.875.6128.5184.2 19742.000.986.3131.7204.6 19752.100.946.0734.6223.2 19762.300.976.2936.6236.1 19772.300.915.9138.9251.5 19782.650.986.3241.9270.5 19792.900.966.2246.7301.2 19803.100.915.8553.0341.9 19813.350.895.7358.4377.2 19823.350.845.4062.0400.4 19833.350.815.2364.0413.3 19843.350.785.0266.8431.1 19853.350.754.8469.2446.5 19863.350.744.7670.4454.8 19873.350.714.5973.0471.4 19883.350.684.4176.0490.9 19893.350.654.2079.7514.5 19903.800.704.5284.0542.3 19914.250.754.8687.5565.1 19924.250.734.7190.2582.2 19934.250.714.5892.9599.6 19944.550.744.7895.2614.9 19954.550.704.55100.0 645.7 Respectfully submitted Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099 On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Paul Zarembka wrote: Doug, I think you missed my calculation. Yes, I'll accept the $4.89 as the 1950 minimum wage in 1995 $, BUT the labor time to produce what can be purchased with that wage is far lower today. If productivity is 140% higher, then 120 minutes required to produce the daily wage then requires only 50 minutes today. Furthermore, the big downward movement has been since 1973 (in terms of the exchange value of labor power declining in units of labor time). So, what is so radical about a $10 minimum wage, except that Reich is talking about $5.15? The capitalists are robbing the working class blind and Marxists tools of analysis help show that. Actually I am bit dismayed by the resistance to these calculations (yours and Jerry's). Paul Zarembka P.S. on your reference to average private sector wages--drive it up to $20 and the capitalists would no worse off (who cares anyway) than in 1950 in terms of labor hours they get as surplus. On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: I'm all for a sharply higher US minimum wage, but Paul Z's numbers are a bit otherworldly. The 1950 minimum of $0.75 would be $4.89 in 1995 dollars, inflated by the CPI-U, or $6.26 if it were the same percentage of the average wage (54%) as it was then. A $10 minimum would be 86% of the average private sector hourly wage - not likely anytime before the Revolution. Doug
[PEN-L:1655] Re: Minimum wages in real terms
Paul Zarembka wrote: The 1950 minimum wage was $0.75, which is higher than today's $4.25 when corrected by the consumer price index. Productivity has gone up some 140% in that time. So, the minimum wage today could easily be motivated for over $10 and capitalism would not crack (or even feel much of a dent)! I don't really understand Paul's logic above. Firstly, 1950 is not 1995 and one would have to consider the current situation of US capitalism before one can assert the potential impact of such an increase in the minimum wage on the accumulation process. Second, while US capitalism would not "crack" (i.e. breakdown?) if the minimum wage increased to over $10/hr., such an increase would most assuredly have a major impact on corporate profitability and would very much feel like a "dent" from the perspective of US capitalists. Third, what would be the likely consequence of such a dramatic increase in the minimum wage on "capital flight"? I suspect it would be significant. Jerry 1 December 1995 (almost 3:00pm) Jerry's objection to Paul'ssuggestion of raising minimum wage to $10/hr is based on two points: 1) Jerry says, "1950 is not 1995." That is, 135% wages increase over 50% productivity increase (Paul's number) would definitely reduce corporate profitability. 2) Reduction in corporate profitability would cause capital out-migration. I agree Jerry's first point, because labor cost increase (by 85%), under ceteris paribus, would cut the profitability. One of the the ceteris paribus conditions is a given price under global competiotion. An assumption which is reasonably true. However, I disagre with Jerry's second point. By capital migration I only mean FDI by MNCs. Productive investment decision by MNCs (or some call TNCs) not only depend on the existing disparities in profit rates between home and host countries, but also expected future profit disparities. It is assumed that MNCs with superior technology and organizational and marketing skills are able to produce at lower cost than local (indigenous) firms. Hence, a reduction of the rate of profit at home (due to rising minimum wage) does not necessarily eliminate existing and/or future profit disparities. And therefore, no capital out-migration. Hugo, it is Friday here too. Time to go home. Fikret Ceyhun.
[PEN-L:1555] Tofu Thanksgiving dinner
Jim Devine wrote:
"For those in the US (where Thanksgiving happens tomorrow), I hope
that you enjoy your roasted tofu log and candied bean-sprouts!"
Tomorrow, I am going to deer hunting for a venison roast.
Fikret Ceyhun
[PEN-L:1376] Re: Fed tightness
To Doug:
This is a brief response to your November 9th mail.
First, I would like to correct an error in first column (error
was due to Excel's calculations). Correct table appears below with real
minimum wage added.
Variable: 1950-59 1960-69 1970-79 1980-89 1990-94
X1 2.062.367.085.553.64
X2 4.514.786.217.276.50
X3 233.70 284.7 301.7 270.4 256.00
X5 4.886.246.125.004.67*
X1 = Inflation rate, average annual
X2 = Unemployment rate, average annual
X3 = Weekly earnings in 1982 dollars, average annual
X5 = Minimum wage in 1995 dollars, average annual
(*) 1990-95 average
I couldn't make much sense out of part of your comments.
Especially the part, "If you want to use a martial analogy, it's like the
seemingly gratuitous massacre the US conducted during the Gulf War,
incinerating everyone on the road out of Kuwait. Completely unnecessary
in military terms perhaps, but from the warriors' point of view, an
emphatic way of saying 'you lose!'"
As for the substance of your comment, I disagree strongly with
it. You say, "I said 'total' victory, i.e. the complete humiliation of
your opponents. There are still unions; there are still minimum wage
laws; there are still AFDC and Medicaid." Yes there are still minimum
wage laws, but do they protect those workers (there are millions of them)
who earn the lowest wage? Above table, variable X5, average minimum wage
with 1995 purchasing power is lower than the 1950s amount. Actually this
aggregate table is misleading a little bit. Minimum wage reached the
highest level in 1968, $7.15, and the lowest in 1989, $4.20.
As for your other points, the welfare reform in the Congress
shows us that there will be AFDC only in name, and that goes for
"Medicaid" too. Who are going to defend the interests of these groups in
Congress against the Republican onslaught supported by some Democrats?
My main contention was that the victory of capital over labor is
fait accompli. I tried to give a theoretical reason and empirical
evidence. A conciliatory politics by the US labor through accommodation
(a policy is best described the philosophy of one-half of a loaf of bread
is better than none, a quarter... is better than none, a tenth is better
than none,..., and finally the crumbs are better than none. Such logic
takes us nowhere.) prepared the present situations. You seem to endorse
that by saying that we still have unions, minimum wage laws, AFDC,
Medicaid, etc. even though those programs have been cut, and labor unions
are no longer as powerful as they once used to be. Capital is now after
labor's fringe benefits (i.e., retirement, health care, etc.). How the
unions are going to defend themselves? With what weapon? Do they expect
support from the congress? From the people? Weakened by numbers (10-12
million union members) and economic and political power the unions are no
match for the capital who is well-organized politically and economically.
Capital understands the importance of politics in their struggle over the
labor. But does the labor understand and organize accordingly?
I wish we have a debate on these questions rather than "Shalom"
debate, a debate that has not advanced a theory of our understanding of
the problem in the region and therefore provided a solution to it. It was
a sterile and emotional debate, which regurgitated the known facts. Can
any participant of that debate offer a reasonble solution to
Palestenian/Israeli conflict, a solution that is just and durable peace
between them?
The two quotes from Marx below are important, because, I believe,
radicals in general and Marxists in particular, follow a tradition which
is based on class analysis of events. We use this methodology (wherever
possible we try to improve it) to analyze economic-political-social
events. I offer these quotes for elaboration of my view.
"The task of philosophy is to apprehend and comprehend what is,
rather than what ought to be."
"Since it is not for us to create a plan for the future that will
hold for all time, all the more surely what we contemporaries have to do
is the uncompromising critical evaluation of all that exists,
uncompromising in the sense that our criticism fears neither its own
results nor the conflict with the powers that be."
By the way, class-struggle does not seem to be popular among liberals
and among some radicals too. I notice, our PEN writers (most of them) are not
signing with an ending clich of "In struggle." I do not know whether or not
this shows that they don't believe in class struggle any more.
In struggle,
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics
[PEN-L:1377] Chart Question
Sometime ago I saw a chart in a publication (might be THE
ECONOMIST) and sources of the data in chart were "WORLD BANK OECD."
I am going to try to reproduce the chart below.
TITLE: INEQUALITY AND LABOR PRODUCTIVITY: 1979 TO 1990
Labor productivity growth
4.0
|
| +Finland
3.0
|
|
3.0 +Japan
|
|
2.5
| +France
| +Belgium +Denmark
2.0 +UK
| +Italy
|+Germany
1.5 + + +Norway +New Zeland
| Sweden Netherlands
| Switzerland
1.0 + + Australia
| Canada +
| USA
0.5 +
|
|
0*_*_*_*_*_*_**_
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Income inequality c. 1980 (top 20%/bottom 20%)
My questions:
1) Is there inherent theoretical relationship (or is it just empirical
relationship) between income inequality and productivity growth?
2) Does growth reduce income inequality or increase it? Why?
3) As you know, the conservatives tend to contend that the high
rates of growth lessen income inequality. Since the chart
empirically shows the relationship between income inequality and
labor productivity growth, does income inequality retard labor
productivity? Why?
Thoughts on these questions are much appreciated.
In struggle,
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office
University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home
Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1312] Re: important measures
On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Harry M. Cleaver wrote: On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: The current issue of the IMF Survey (November 6, 1995), reports on the Fund's new data initiative, which would "encourage," in their ever-so-persuasive way, countries to publish a minimum set of economic statistics "on a regular and timely basis." Here's what the IMF considers the "absolute minimum" of crucial indicators: "exchange rates; international reserves; the balance sheet of the central bank; reserve or base money; interest rates; the consumer price index; exports/imports; external current account balance; overall fiscal balance; external debt and debt service; and GDP." Conspicuously absent: wage and (un)employment figures, obviously not important to the big domes in Washington. Doug Now Doug, wages and unemployment ARE important to the IMF, but when your real goals (a decrease of the former and an increase of the latter) might deligitimize your public image, you keep them in the background. No need to publish them up front where you might have to discuss them. Let others bring them up and then you can express your regrets over the unfortunate by-products of oh-so-necessary structural adjustment.:-( Harry ... Another statistics, though very important, is not published by international agengies including the IMF. That statistics is income redistribution. Availability of it is important in terms of evaluation of a country's economic policy under IMF or other organization supervision.There are numerous other statistics which help to gauge countries' economic/social performance. We need to know measures like real wages, real minimum wage, an index of (unemployment+inflation+interest rate). Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1322] Re: Fed tightness
On two or three postings, Doug Henwood said (I lost the dates): "It's now the consensus on Wall Street that the Fed won't ease at its mid-November meeting, despite imminent fiscal sadism, flagging growth, and the absence of any inflationary signsWall Street and the Fed are committed to a severe crackdown." ... "I think capital smells an imminent total victory over labor, and will not let up until the task is accomplished." ... "For the last 3 months, average real direct hourly wages, year-to-year, are up 0.4-0.5%, the best sustained performance in 8 years. Measures of total compensation, which include fringe benefits, tell a very different story - down 2.7%, the worst performance since the series began in 1980, and probably for at least 40 years - because employers are cutting back enormously on benefits. But Wall Street hawks look at the direct pay numbers and see in their tiny fevered minds, the specter of WAGE INFLATION." The middle paragraph is puzzling. Puzzling, because as if capital hasn't won the victory yet. Capital won the victory long time ago and solidified their position in the 1980s. Capital, with the help of Fed beginning with Volcker, kept inflation under control. The real earnings of average worker, weekly or hourly, reached the lowest since the late 1960s. There is no sign of real wage increase (especially real take-home pay) under weak and conciliatory labor leadership. US labor, unlike the European labor organizations, is unable to effectively demand the class interest of its members. Its leadership is corrupt (undemocratic) and unrepresentative of its constituencies. It does not have a political agenda and does not organize its members accordingly. With such leadership, US labor can never wage an effective struggle against the capital, who is always well-organized economically and politically. Observation of the table below shows the long term trend, a gloomy trend for labor. Variable: 1950-59 1960-69 1970-79 1980-89 1990-94 X1 2.062.367.085.553.64 X2 0.554.786.217.276.50 X3 234 285 302 270 256 X1 = Inflation rate, average annual X2 = Unemployment rate, average annual X3 = Weekly earnings in 1982 dollars, average annual Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1170] help needed
Dear PENers,
I need e-mail or phone numbers of either one of these:
John Charles Pool,
Stephen C. Stamos,
Patrice Franko Jones,
who published a text: "THE ABCs OF INTERNATIONAL FINANCE." If you know,
please respond directly to me. Thank you in advance.
Fikret
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office
University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home
Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:1160] Multiple choice q?
I need to deflate the followings in national income accounts. Please indicate which is the most appropriate index to get real values and why (briefly, please)? 1. Deflating corporate profits by a) producer price index b) consumer price index c) GDP implicit price deflator d) other (please specify) 2. Net interests by a) producer price index b) consumer price index c) GDP implicit price deflator d) other (please specify) 3. Proprietors' income by a) producer price index b) consumer price index c) GDP implicit price deflator d) other (please specify) 4. Wages and salary disbursements by a) producer price index b) consumer price index c) GDP implicit price deflator d) other (please specify) 5. FORTUNE 500 LARGEST INDUSTRIAL COMPANIES' combined assets and profits a) producer price index b) consumer price index c) GDP implicit price deflator d) other (please specify) Your help is much appreciated. Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:719] Re: mike lebowitz's address
Here is his e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099 On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, John L Gulick wrote: Sorry to interrupt public postings on this list, but I was wondering if anyone could zap me Mike Lebowitz's e-mail address. Please send it directly to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] so as to avoid rude interventions such as that which I just regrettably made. Thanks, John Gulick UC-Santa Cruz Sociology research: eco-Marxist sociology of the built environment
[PEN-L:196] Re: Elizabeth Fox-Genovese
Doug and Harry, Thanks for the enlightening information about Fox-Genovese couple. Who knows how many more renegates there are? Please keep digging in. Ciao, Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5982] Re: RDemonstration in Berlin
On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Marianne Bruen wrote: Today there was a march and demonstration in front of the US Embassy to stop the "legal lyching of Mumia Abu Jamal". It was not a large crowd, by Berlin standards, yet quite impressive, considering it was initiated mainly by groups considered to be the far left. Marianne Brun Does anyone know whether there are demonstrations at the state capitol in Pennsylvania or at the governor's mansion? Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5985] Puzzle for weekend
The following puzzle appeared in THE ECONOMIST, JULY 8th 1995. Link the asterisks by four lines without lifting your pen. * * * * * * * * * Answer will be given next Sunday. Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5986] Re: Narrowing the Vision
Michael Perelman: "We now have a remarkable array of people from around the world, yet we still hear a preponderance of posts from and about the U.S." I think Table 1 partly explains why, because more than two-thirds of people are here. TABLE 1 Internet connections by regions, January 1995 Percent of Total North America 3,372,600 69.4 Western Europe 1,039,000 21.4 Eastern Europe 46,1000.9 Asia 151,8003.1 Pacific 192,4004.0 Africa 27,1000.6 Middle East13,8000.28 Central and S. America 16,0000.33 Total: 4,859,000 100.0 SOURCE: THE ECONOMIST, JULY 1th 1995. And Table 2 provides information about how widespread INTERNET is in various countries. TABLE 2 Internet use, hosts per 1,000 population, January 1995. (Rough reading from a chart) Finland 14 United States 12 Australia9 New Zealand 9 Sweden 9 Switzerland 8 Norway 8 Canada 7 Holland 6.5 Denmark 6 Britain 5 Austria 4.5 Israel 4 Germany 4 Hong Kong3.5 Belgium 3 France 2.5 Czech Republic 2 Japan1.7 South Africa 1.6 Spain1.5 Taiwan 1.3 Italy1 S. Korea 0.8 Poland 0.6 SOURCE: THE ECONOMIST, JULY 1th 1995. The magazine asks: if the internet runs over telephone lines, why does it cost the same to send e-mail message around the world as it does to send it next door? Answer: no one really knows. Does anyone know? Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5971] Re: Narrowing the Vision
On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Michael Perelman wrote: We now have a remarkable array of people from around the world, yet we still hear a preponderance of posts from and about the U.S. Also, we still have a small group of people who contribute most of the postings. The list would be more valuable if we could hear from more of you. -- Michael Perelman's important post above is generally ignored by the PENers. Only two people commented. Before I make a brief comment on the posting, I was searching an appropriate quotation. I couldn't find one, but the following would serve as second best: "Since it is not for us to create a plan for the future that will hold for all time, all the more surely what we contemporaries have to do is the uncompromising critical evaluation of all that exists, uncompromising in the sense that our criticism fears neither its own results nor the conflict with the powers that be." --Karl Marx I think the PENers generally are doing what Marx says "uncompromising critical evaluation of all that exists, uncompromising in the sense that our criticism fears neither its own results nor the conflict with the powers that be." But more can be done. I must agree with Michael Perelman that topics covered are narrow and mostly related to the U.S.and participants are "small group of people." If we can broaden topics to include burning questions pertinent to other lands and peoples then participation from other lands would surely increase. Also, personally I would like to see communications focussed on: 1. Less commentary and opinions; 2. More analysis of events and issues; 3. More news and information. Opinions are less useful to guide us to construct a model to understand what is happening aound us. What we need is more "analysis." For instance, a lot of us are puzzled why real wages are falling in most industrial societies and how can we counter this trend. Is it expected in capitalism? Are the alling wages result of increaing income inequality? Or the causality the other way around? What role(s) transnational corporations play in wage declines? Etc. I am sure we all read periodicals and books. In those materials there must be interesting items and news to share. How other (non-English language) publications cover certain important events? Sharing those would be very valuable. I hope this would be received as friendly self-criticism of ourselves. Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5934] re: Our contract w/ America?
Earlier PENers discussed one of Marx's crisis theory--tendency for the rate of profit to fall (FROP). Then there were discussions surrounding Business Week's falling wages and productivity. I would like to know how profit squeeze theorists can explain rising rates of profits with falling real wages in the 1990s? Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 office University Station, Box 8369(701)772-5135 home Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:5751] Re: Iqbal Masih
When I posed the question, "are we utopian or realist?" I meant that
soultions to child labor (or slavery) are limited under capitalism. The
problems of child labor and others are emanating from the contradictory
nature of the system. Unless you eliminate those contradictions you
cannot solve the problems. You could try to improve over what already
exist through liberal reforms. That is exactly what some liberal
governments try to do. By all means, they are not eradicating the
root causes.
Fikret Ceyhun
On Tue, 27 Jun 1995, Anthony D'Costa wrote:
In the precapitalist world children worked and did not get education.
The question is were they exploited in the same way as today? Besides,
urging human rights in an underdeveloped economy, without commitment,
without administrative capacity, and with limited resources only becomes
rhetoric with little practical substance.
What might be a realistic solution? Assuming that the liberal west would
most openly support human rights then by creating export dependency
(which they already are in the case of carpets) of child-products
boycotts by western consumers might drive home the message. Some effect
of this has been felt by German pressure on India and government
sponsored manufacture of carpets are "childlabor free" not so yet for
private producers. The problem with this is that it is effective for the
export but may do little for doemstic markets. As long as purchasing
power is low with maldistribution of wealth, domestic market will
continue to support chile labor. Past Chinese strategy might be useful
but very difficult to adopt in hetergeneous, polyglot societies.
Anthony D'Costa
On Tue, 27 Jun 1995, Fikret Ceyhun wrote:
27 June 1995
My answer lies in the second sentence of my mesage. Namely, we
are talking workers' rights in less developed countries, where adult
workers are unable to gain their just right legally and if they gain
legally, they are unable to implement them in practice. "De facto"
situation is much different than "de jure." When it is difficult for
adults, it is much more difficult for child workers, who cannot defend
their rights as efficient and skilfully as adults.
I am asked for a solution to a difficult question.There isn't one
that can be implemented, because of the collusion between the employers
and the governments. Frequently they are the same people.Child labor is
inhuman whether it is legal or not. A chile in the field or in factory is
a child whose education is denied. Educationally deprived child is a
child lost. This vicious cycle of child exploitation must end so that
they can't be exploited when they become adult. There must be a law
(enforceable law) against child labor (anyone less than 14, 15, or 16
years old), and compulsory public education with government subsidy. If
you can implement this, you will immensely improve children's future
economic lot.
In struggle,
Fikret Ceyhun
Economics Dept.
Univ. of North Dakota
On Mon, 26 Jun 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fikret Ceyhun says:
The argument to legalize child labor with all the rights that their adult
counterparts have will not end the child exploitation, but will further
it.
___
How?
___
In a world that adult laborers are unable to defend and protect
their just rights against business, how can we expect that from the
children? Are we utopian or realist?
_
But they have been defending and protecting it much better than the children
have been. What would be your realist solution?
Cheers, ajit sinha
[PEN-L:5721] Re: Iqbal Masih
27 June 1995
My answer lies in the second sentence of my mesage. Namely, we
are talking workers' rights in less developed countries, where adult
workers are unable to gain their just right legally and if they gain
legally, they are unable to implement them in practice. "De facto"
situation is much different than "de jure." When it is difficult for
adults, it is much more difficult for child workers, who cannot defend
their rights as efficient and skilfully as adults.
I am asked for a solution to a difficult question.There isn't one
that can be implemented, because of the collusion between the employers
and the governments. Frequently they are the same people.Child labor is
inhuman whether it is legal or not. A chile in the field or in factory is
a child whose education is denied. Educationally deprived child is a
child lost. This vicious cycle of child exploitation must end so that
they can't be exploited when they become adult. There must be a law
(enforceable law) against child labor (anyone less than 14, 15, or 16
years old), and compulsory public education with government subsidy. If
you can implement this, you will immensely improve children's future
economic lot.
In struggle,
Fikret Ceyhun
Economics Dept.
Univ. of North Dakota
On Mon, 26 Jun 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fikret Ceyhun says:
The argument to legalize child labor with all the rights that their adult
counterparts have will not end the child exploitation, but will further
it.
___
How?
___
In a world that adult laborers are unable to defend and protect
their just rights against business, how can we expect that from the
children? Are we utopian or realist?
_
But they have been defending and protecting it much better than the children
have been. What would be your realist solution?
Cheers, ajit sinha
[PEN-L:5700] In the press
Jim,
Your debate concerning the "long waves..." appeared R.F.
Kampfer's Random Shots column in the most recent issue of "Against The
Current."
Fikret Ceyhun
[PEN-L:5701] Joke of the day!
One day, Pope John Paul II assked God: "Lord, will the Church ever allow contraception?" "Not in your lifetime." "What about women priests." "Not in your life time." "Will there be another Polish pope?" "Not in my life time." From a letter to "The Economist", by R. Mark Hodgson. Fikret Ceyhun
[PEN-L:5702] Quote of the day
For some of us, I borrowed the following quote:
"Forget the debate over whether life begins at birth or conception; my
grand father always said that life begins when the last child moves out
and the dog dies."
--R.F. Kampfer, "Against The Current."
I didn't have a dog, but my life began when my younger son moved out.
Fikret Ceyhun.
[PEN-L:5025] Re: profit-rate equalization
May 9, 1995
Dear Peners,
I was out of mail service for a while and I missed the
discussions on "profit-rate equalization" before May 5th. I would
appreciate receiving those postings directly to my e-mail:
Thank you.
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Univ. of North Dakota voice: (701)777-3348 w
University Station,Box 8369 (701)772-5135 h
Grand Forks, ND 58202 fax:(701)777-5099
[PEN-L:4780] Worker?
20 April 1995 "What is worker" has drawn a lot of comments and clarifications. Gil Skillman said, "a worker is someone who expends socially productive labor in a commodity-producing enterprise." Robert Peter Burns said, "anyone who has to rely on paid employment." Peter Dorman said, "a worker in a capitalist economy is an employee of an enterprise." Jim Divine said, "a worker . . . [is] 'direct producer' and might not be a proletarian but a slave or serf or whatever" Carl Dassbach said, "A worker is the antithesis of an owner." It seems to me the last one is the clearest and the shortest definition. A worker who sells his (her) labor power for living. Anyone who sweats for living, sell labor power for wage. Both productive and unproductive laborer is a worker. The only qualification is that worker only exists in capitalism, because labor power is commodity only in capitalism and nowhere else (slavery, feudalism, and communist utopia included). Therefore we cannot define worker in other systems where work for living is not imposed on the person. "work for living" in exchange for wage is imposed in capitalism, because worker is not owner and therefore has to work. And owner who owns the jobs has the power to impose work on worker. The definition is very clear here from the Great Plains. Here we see no hills and valleys for hundreds of miles, no smoke or fog. The air is pristine clear, and nothing like in East or West Coasts or elsewhere. Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Economics Univ. of North Dakota e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:4733] East-Asia Models
16 April 1995 For some time there is a very enlightening discussions on East Asian model(s) of development. The participants search for the root-causes of the economic progress in the region. I don't have answers to these questions, but I have some questions to clarify the issues. If we look at some countries in the region vis-a-vis the US, they all have significant improvement in their GDP per capita. China and Taiwan are excluded because of their membership status in UN and therefore lack of consistent data. GDP PER CAPITA ($) 197019751980198519901992 United States 4,970 7,400 12,000 16,690 21,790 23,240 Japan 1,930 4,490 9,870 11,300 25,430 28,190 Hong Kong 900 2,160 5,210 6,230 11,490 15,360 Singapore 950 2,540 4,550 7,420 11,160 15,730 S. Korea260 580 1,620 2,1505,400 6,790 Malaysia390 820 1,680 2,0002,320 2,790 Percent of US Per Capita GDP 197019751980198519901992 United States 100 100 100 100 100 100 Japan 38.860.782.367.7116.7 121.3 Hong Kong 18.129.243.437.352.766.1 Singapore 19.134.337.944.551.267.7 S. Korea5.2 7.8 13.512.924.829.2 Malaysia7.8 11.114 12.010.612.0 Source: WORLD DEVELOPMENT REPORT, Various Years. Except Malaysia, all four countries have narrowed the income gap with the US. Is this what Mark Selden alludes: higher income, higher consumption, higher standard of living, higher life expectancy, etc.? Do we measure these characteristics from average figures, or do we also look at the distribution? Is economic development just per capita GDP growth? Or should we examine other variables, such as PQI (physical quality life index and its variations), HDI (human development index), access to sanitation, water, health care, books newspapers, radio, TV, etc.? More or less every participant used the word "development" or "economic development" as synonymous to "economic growth" which is per capita GDP growth. Economic development is much broader concept, it has a socio-economic and political dimension. It is not just a higher standard of living for the few, but everybody's. Perhaps we should use John Gurley's "Maoist economic development" concept. Development means every one's rise to higher level, not only the elite's in the society. Is there evidence in these variables in China? Those who followed the accounts of William Hinton in MONTHLY REVIEW cannot agree with the conclusion that Mark asserted in his first posting. The evidence that Hinton has presented is increasing income gap among people, communes and regions in China. I am not a China (or East-Asia) "expert." I cannot empirically verify or refute the claims made in the discussions. But those discussions raise questions in my mind. 1. It seems that there is a confusion between "short-term" and "long-term" statistical results. Economic development is not only broader term but also it is a long term sustainable phenomenon. Some countries in the region sustained economic growth for several decades, but the evidence in China is not warranted at the moment. We should not rush to quick judgment as we have done for some countries elsewhere. Brazil was a case in point. After the junta toppled the Goulard government in the 1960s, Brazil was viewed as a "model" for less developed countries and viewed as a dynamic NIC. And look at it now. 2. I don't believe we now know what really triggers economic development. So, let us not put forward grandiose theories before we know more and understand the nature of economic development, not economic growth. Let me give an example by re-telling a story an Iranian colleague told me. When he was returning from a trip to Iran, at Teheran airport he was harassed and humiliated by a baggage checker and passport controller. Baggage checker told him that he had excess baggage and they cannot be checked in. He tried to reason and talk to the person, but no avail. He sweated in warm and crowded airport. This created another problem. So he left one baggage with books there to proceed to passport control, where the officer told him that his passport is damp (of course, it was wet from sweat, he could have wetted his pants too) and he cannot process it. The officer told my colleague that he looked "suspicious" and nervous. And he has to investigate his situation and until that time he has to wait. He was tormented there by this "small" man. And of course, he missed the plane. Next day he boarded airplane without any hassle and came to Istanbul. While he was waiting for his connection at
[PEN-L:4734] PEN-L digest 671
e boarded airplane without any hassle and came to Istanbul. While he was waiting for his connection at the airport a woman security officer approached him and asked his identification and other documents, because she told him that he looked "suspicious". She checked his passport and wallet and found $2000. She began questioning from where he got the money. Do you want me to tell you more stories of "underdevelopment"? The arbitrary power that those individuals have is the invisible facets of underdevelopment. Their words are the rule of law over there and you cannot question the arbitrary power they have. You can multiply these incidences to show how they can cumulatively block economic development (even though there may be so much external capital infusion). (Mexico is a case in point. As soon as there is capital inflow, there is also outflow for equal amount.) There are many, many such things and stories. You see them by living. The intricacy of these incidences is obstacle to economic development. How do you eradicate them? How can you measure these intangibles, which are crucial for the assessment of economic development? How do we quantify them? Does GDP per capita growth or a rise in average life expectancy tell us about these intangible barriers? 3. I have also noticed for lack of class analysis in our discussions of East Asia. Economic development means a change in economic and political power. Do we see any evidence of empowered masses in the region? Does the working class majority control the means of production and distribution and their use for themselves? 4. I always thought that economic development cannot occur in Third World capitalist societies. Its occurrence is a negation to socialism. If economic development can occur in capitalism or if we can create economic development with capitalist class, then why do we struggle for socialism? If capitalism manages economic development without impoverishing the majority, then why do we fight against capitalism? Remember friends! I am not talking economic growth (per capita GDP growth) from Badlands in North Dakota. I am talking economic development. Economic development occurs when there is no impoverishment of the many. Development occurs when the powerless becomes powerful. Have we forgotten Marx's quote: "There must me something rotten in the very core of a social system which increases its wealth without diminishing its misery, and increases in crime even more rapidly than in numbers." That is what we fight for socialism: to diminish the misery of the majority as we increase the total wealth. P.S. For economic development to occur, the internal conditions conducive to development must be ready. One of these conditions is that there must not be very unequal property distribution, particularly land. The post-war progress that Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan have had in economic sphere is partly attributable to the limitation imposed on land ownership. In struggle for socialism, Fikret Ceyhun e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Hayek critique
Trond's comment implies that there exists "an optimal" rate of planning,
just like an optimal tax rate or optimal tariff rate. These are mythical
concepts, devoid of any applicability to real life situations. What
really determines how much central planning/market guidance depend on the
concrete conditions: population size, historical, social, and
institutional structure of the country. There can be no generic recipie
for all countries to follow.
Sevgiler!
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. Of Economics
Univ. Of North Dakota
University Station, Box 8369
Grand Forks, ND 58202
Voice: (701)777-3348
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, Trond Andresen wrote:
The question of how much central planning (as opposed to market
mechanisms) you can have before the system gets inefficient, cannot be
discussed without considering how to organize democracy, politics, the
media.
A program for this is IMO just as important as an "economic" socialist
program.
Trond
---
| Trond Andresen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) |
| Department of Engineering Cybernetics |
| The Norwegian Institute of Technology |
| N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY |
| |
| phone (work)+47 73 59 43 58 |
| fax (work) +47 73 59 43 99 |
| private phone +47 73 53 08 23 |
---
Re: Credit scoring again??
Bob, What do you mean by " any credit-scoring system be statistically sound"? My emphasis is on the "statistically sound." Fikret.
Info on class attendance
Sept. 19, 1994 Pen-L readers/writers debated grading in the past summer. Journal of Economic Perspectives (Summer, 1994) had a discussion on "Should Class Attendance Be Mandatory?" FYI. Fikret Ceyhun, Economics, Univ. of North Dakota. e-mail: Ceyhun@Badlands. NoDak.Edu. voice: (701)777-3348
Renaming URPE absolutely?
d others. Many comrades offered fruitful
ideas for our younger members, such as: they need not write organization
name on their CV. Or they might submit their work to other left journals
whose titles may not be "revealing" as the RRPE. Those young members can
still participate in URPE and grow with us.
As for the quality and the nature of articles in the RRPE. This
issue is extremely important and difficult. Some writers expressed
concerns for the excessive use of quantitative tools, lack of real world
problems or applicability, etc. I think these are valid criticisms and I
believe something ought to be done about it. This is where our
credibility lies as a left organization. With these kinds of writings,
how could we move toward a better future society that is an alternative
to the present one? We can't be a credible organization if our writings
have no relevance to people whose lives we want to change? I share the
concerns of many who complain the use of "esoteric" techniques, since
these techniques serve no one except the writer's self image in some
circles. We, the leftist writers, have a message and purpose in our
writings, and convey it to the reader. If the reader doesn't get it, then
the writer fails. Many people's letters in PEN-L are testimony to this
aspect. I witness this kind of complaints in mainstream journals as well,
like AER, EJ. Many well-known economists, including some Nobel laureates
criticize the level of mathematics, abstractness, devoid of reality, etc.
used in leading journals. What must we do about it in URPE? This concerns
all of us, particularly the editorial board of the RRPE. The board may
place a limit on the use of mathematical sophistication or exclude those
articles from consideration altogether, on the ground that they are not
relevant to URPE readers or the real world problems, etc. I think, the
credibility of URPE depends on our work, the quality and usefulness of
our analysis. Genuine alternative analysis, an analysis that helps and
guides practitioners need to be struggled for. Only these would give
credence to URPE.
I have some proposals to make RRPE more useful to readers. RRPE
in each issue should have sections for (a) policy oriented articles, (b)
correspondence, (c) a corner for non-academic/non-economist, and (d) a
section for invited article from leading figures in their fields.
Before I end this letter, I would like to say something about the
future alternative. The future alternative that we want to create cannot
be created without the active participation of working class. Without
them we can accomplish nothing. We have to walk with them to change the
present into the future alternative. And that alternative is socialism.
I wrote these lines as I listened to revolutionary folk songs.
Forgive me if I am carried away by the music or by Jim Craven's quote
from Bertolt Brecht.
A luta continua,
Fikret Ceyhun
Dept. of Economics
Univ. of North Dakota
University Station, box 8369
Grand Forks, ND 58203
More on competitiveness
Sept. 12, 1994 Dear Pen Readers, "The Nation" (April 27, 1992) had an article by Andrew L. Shapiro, title: We're Number One! (Really?) He said: We're Number One in managers. We're Last in growth of industrial productivity. We're Number One in executive salaries. We're Number One in inequality of pay. Then he provided the following interesting tables. TABLE 1: Percentage of economically active population who are managers or administrative workers, 1989; and percentage average annual growth of labor productivity, in output per employee, 1979-90: COUNTRY MANAGERS(%) PRODUCTIVITY GROWTH(%) United States 12.10.7 Australia 11.90.9 Canada 11.91.2 Austria 4.71.9 Japan3.73.0 Netherlands 3.31.5 Denmark 3.02.1 Finland 3.03.6 TABLE 2: Average renumeration of chief executive officers (CEOs), and CEO remuneration as a multiple of average manufacturing employee remuneration, 1991: COUNTRY CEO SALARIES(US$) RATIO: CEO TO WORKER United States $747,50025 France 448,50016 Switzerland 424,10011 Italy421,30014 Canada 407,60012 United Kingdom 399,60016 Belgium 397,30013 Japan371,80011 Germany 364,50010 Sweden 335,60010 Netherlands 297,90010 Austria 271,30014 TABLE 3: We're Last in paid vacation days. Paid vacation days per year, 1991: COUNTRY VACATION DAYS COUNTRY VACATION DAYS Netherlands 31.9Norway 31.4 Germany 29.9Finland 28.6 Sweden 27.8France 27.0 Austria 26.8Denmark 25.0 Belgium 24.6Italy 24.6 United Kingdom 24.5Japan 24.0 Switzerland 23.4Australia 22.4 Canada 14.7United States 10.8 Cheers! Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Econ, Univ. of North Dakota University Station, box 8369 Grand Forks, ND 58202 (701)777-3348 voice;(701)777-5099 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] e-mail
RE: competitiveness index and New Zealand
Sept. 10, 1994 Nancy, I have heard it on TV, one of the network news; it did not indicated the source. I am puzzled too. If the United States is #1 in competitiveness, why can't the trade deficit doesn't come below the $100 billion mark? Cheers! Fikret Ceyhun Dept. of Econ, Univ. of North Dakota University Station, box 8369 Grand Forks, ND 58202 (701)777-3348 voice;(701)777-5099 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] e-mail On Fri, 9 Sep 1994, Breen, Nancy wrote: I don't know how it's ranked, but the U.S. is #1 this year Nancy Breen National Institutes of Health. -- From: pen-l To: breenn Subject: competitiveness index and New Zealand Date: Friday, September 09, 1994 7:15AM A friend informed me that New Zealand had ranked ninth on the most recent world competitiveness scale. Does anyone know what this is and how it is calculated? Mark Laffey
Re: URPE = UPE?
BRIAN, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT PERHAPS RADICAL OR RADICAL ENOUGH.THE ANSWER IS BE RADICAL.FIKRET On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, Brian Eggleston wrote: I am receiving many messages in duplicate. Is anyone else so afflicted? Is there anything I can do to remedy the problem? Thanks. Brian Eggleston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lincoln Quotes
Abraham Lincoln said: "I don't know much about the tariff. But I do know that when I buy a coat from England, I have the coat and England has the money. But when I buy a coat in America, I have the coat and America has the money." Is Abe Lincoln anti-globalist? Fikret Ceyhun = Eric Nilsson wrote: "To [secure] to each labourer the whole product of his labor, or as nearly as possible, is the most worthy object of any good government." Abraham Lincoln circa 1847 quoted in David Donald's biography, Lincoln, page 110. Eric Nilsson Economics Department CSUSB San Bernardino, CA 92407 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 909-880-5564
