Thanks Joe.
Hi Keith;
Most often the process comes to 95% or more complete and that is
good enough for me ( personal choice) and doesn't give me wash
problems either. Maybe 20% of the time it only gets to somewhere
around 90% and this is a problem. It tends to be most likely to
happen when
Hello to All,
This is an attempt to get things in focus for myself at least.
I think this topic started with Re:Biodiesel Quality Test
On 8/7/07 Mike W. stated that he allows his batches to settle for a week
before washing; No problems with wash.
On 8/7/07
I agreed, stated an
measurements and
everything.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agrees with what Andres
Message -
*From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So
-
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Tom
Hi Keith,
Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
batches of oil,
Ops.
I took Joe's
Hi Joe
Hi Keith;
See my answers below.
Keith Addison wrote:
Well, settling time is free.
Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a methanol test in
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Joe
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried
: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Tom
Hi Keith,
Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
batches of oil,
Ops.
I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to
use info from
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Tom
Hi Keith,
Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
batches of oil,
Ops.
I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to
use info from the QT
: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried
dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove
the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin
Hi Keith;
Most often the process comes to 95% or more complete and that is good
enough for me ( personal choice) and doesn't give me wash problems
either. Maybe 20% of the time it only gets to somewhere around 90% and
this is a problem. It tends to be most likely to happen when the
Hi Keith;
See my answers below.
Keith Addison wrote:
Well, settling time is free.
Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a methanol test in
Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's
experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss
into a fat phanse and an
aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.'
Best regards
Jan
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post
small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would
somebody agree with me on that ?
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing
the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin
it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and
settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known
already.
primitive) single stage base method.
Big Lunch,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have
1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
You wrote:
Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After
you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin
See below
Thomas Kelly wrote:
Joe,
You wrote:
Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide?
After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit
of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin.
I've been concerned about the
.
Glycerin is dissolved in the BD and separates from the liquid BD phase with
time.
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of precise concepts, gliceryn is NOT an emulsifier. Emulsifiers
contains a clear lipofilic and hidrofilic zones in the molecule. Which is an
emulsifier is the partially reacted mono or di-glicerides, but in a crystal
clear liquid
and separates from the liquid BD phase
with time.
- Original Message -
*From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling
Hi Joe
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried
dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove
the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course
this is well known
?
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Andres Secco
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of precise concepts, gliceryn
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of precise concepts, gliceryn is NOT an emulsifier.
Emulsifiers
:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Kewl Tom;
You are ans experimentalist like myself. How much oil/ water and how many
drops of glycerol did it take to create the emulsion?
Joe
Thomas Kelly wrote:
Andres,
Emulsifiers contains a clear lipofilic
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Joe
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried
dosing the batch
Hello,
I have 2 advise for you
1. build a reactor with cone-shaped bottom, and
insulate it well,
2. Start draining the by product as soon as you
practically can ( 99% of glicerin separates within 2 hors)
You may still have problems with draining (
especially to
You mean I can't just do like Google? No wonder I'm not having any
luck! No substitute for tunnel vision, eh?
:-) Google's quite a good substitute for tunnel vision. LOL!
Google and the list archives both use a simple search, though Google
does some other things with it too, but the big
Greg,
On 4/1/06 you asked:
"Is anybody willing to talk about the ammonia process to make the mulch
additive?"
Here's my take on
it.
The glycerin mix that we
drain from the BD contains Glycerin, Fatty Acids (as soaps?) Methanol, and
Lye.
The mix can be
cracked (see JtF) using
Hey Greg ;
If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's 350 Wh of energy used.
If I use a 300 watt US generator and the reaction completes in 10
3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hey Greg ;
If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's 350 Wh of energy used
if separation was compete in 1 hour vs. 24 hours
Keep going
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: "Joe Street" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hey Greg ;
I
t: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hey Greg ;
If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's
Hello Greg
I am very interested in finding a use for the glycerine made by the reaction.
Have you looked at this?
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
Glycerine
I don't need that much soap and the local companies I have called
have not been interested. The idea of using ammonia
Yes ,it most certainly will. Glycerine
residues will have an impact on the equivalence balance for next reaction, that
most probably will produce less biodiesel.
Contaminations in general are not good for
biodiesel production either.
With best regards
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
[EMAIL
It will change the equation equilibrium slightly. Don't know if anyone
has done any analysis as to how much, theoretically or in reality.
Depends on how much is re-included in your next reaction.
You should have your processor set up to drain completely, or within a
few fluid ounces or so.
: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as
fuel
Hello Bill.
If the purpose of gasification is
only providing thermal energy for the chicken house with the disposal of
chicken manure (and glycerine) as added bonus, the biomass couldbe
gasifiedwith a simple updraftgasifier, This will certainly
Hello Marcelino,
- Original Message -
From:
Quimica Nova SA
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as
fuel
Hello Balaji, Hello Bill,
in spite of having a large supply of natural gas
Hello Bill.
If the purpose of gasification is
only providing thermal energy for the chicken house with the disposal of chicken
manure (and glycerine) as added bonus, the biomass couldbe
gasifiedwith a simple updraftgasifier, This will certainly produce
more tarsbut these can be burnt in
Bill,
One would imagine that a gasifier would reduce all components of the
glyc cocktail to syn gas and char.
Gasification is a novel thought to reducing that waste/co-product to
nill though. No addition of anything. No chemical refining. No new
energy inputs. No disposal problem with the
Any concerns to possible toxic emissions...as with the concern of some SVOers?
I have heard that some nasty toxins are produced by the burning of crude
glycerin..although I have no data on it.
Perhaps it is temperature (of combustion) related..and hence not an issue
with a gasifier?
At 10:13
Acrolein is a co-/by-product of incomplete combustion of glycerol. One
would think that at ~2,000* F (the Wood Gun) the combustion process
would be complete.
Todd Swearingen
R Del Bueno wrote:
Any concerns to possible toxic emissions...as with the concern of some
SVOers?
I have heard that
Sorry, error in my last post.
...I am running a wvo to biodiesel project for
the City of Eufaula, AL. I produce about 600 gal. of biodiesel per week
...
Should read "... I am running a biodiesel project
for the City of Eufaula. I can produce about 600 gal. of biodiesel per
week..."
Sorry
Thanks Todd, That was extremely helpful.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel
Bill,
One would imagine that a gasifier would reduce all components
Let me just make sure I had all the details first, since some things
were left unsaid and require assumptions. If I read what you are
saying correctly, I agree with Keith on this one and it doesn't appear
viable.
1)You make BioD with the Lye/methanol method
2)Separate out the BioD from the
Hi,
Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product.
You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc.
How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD
proces, which we find back in the by-product ?
Met dank en vriendelijke groet,
, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Dear Legal Eagle,
There is an industrial and commercial method of using
refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural
soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too).
As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too -
making
becomes of it once it has cured for
awhile.
Luc
- Original Message -
From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real
-
From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi,
Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product.
You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc.
How or what
Luc
- Original Message -
From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
G'day Pieter;
What I am doing here is experimenting in an attempt to make the by product
useful to me. Best
oils like olive, and
settle for less foaming soap.
AntiFossil
Mike Krafka USA
- Original Message -
From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Dear Legal Eagle,
There is an industrial
I like using avocado oil my self.
Menthol makes a nice addition to bathroom soap.It is really nice to
shave with.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 09:13
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine
Dear Legal Eagle,
There is an industrial and commercial method of using
refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural
soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too).
As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too -
making your own stuff.
In the industrial and commercial world there is a
As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm
most interested to see what you achieve.
What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can
follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close
to pure glycerine, providing we have a market
Hi Luc and everyone,
I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might have something to
say about all this biofuel stuff. Anyway, she's pretty knowledgeable (PhD in
chemistry - Dartmuth) and has a few comments about the process you are
suggesting.
If I developed a similar
- Original Message -
From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi Luc and everyone,
I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might have
something to say about all
loads. I think I'd rather see it go towards the
manufacture of natural urethanes than as sweetener for carmeled soda water.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel
Hi Todd and all
Methanol recovery depends on the circumstances, whether it's worth it
or not and at which stage you do it. Three options:
1. Recover from the whole batch, biodiesel, by-product and all, at
some stage after processing.
2. Recover from the by-product, which contains most of the
Martin,
Thin film evaporators (industriall wiped thin film evaporators are used)
and vacuum are a must for glycerol.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0624.htm
Fifteen mm Hg is not an exceptionally strong vacuum. There are ~760 mm Hg
per atmosphere. However, fifteen inches would be
on 10/30/03 5:36 PM, Appal Energy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And even when all things are said and done? The
cost of testing and insuring (liability) that the
recovered product is food or cosmetic grade is one
of the higher costs in the entire process. Tech grade
is a much less involved
Helow Greg and April
Surely it will produce biogas, but you need to be careful about salts, acids
alchol contenet within correct limit together with C/N ratio.there are good
experimental work
work about the use of fatty oil in biodigestion , all metabolized via
glicerol.But you also need
Can anyone tell me how I can purify the glycerin by product from
making biodiesel ?
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Pieter Koole
Dag Pieter
It's not really a glycerin by-product, it's a variable mixture of
glycerine, soaps, excess methanol, and the catalyst (lye):
If you burn straight VO , are you releasing acrolein?
Is it better to deal with the nastiness of this vs the nastiness of using
Methanol to convert
to Biodiesel.?
what about if there is a cat converter?
thanks
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
[biofuel] glycerine
If you burn straight VO , are you releasing acrolein?
Is it better to deal with the nastiness of this vs the nastiness of using
Methanol to convert
to Biodiesel.?
what about if there is a cat converter?
thanks
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http
) ethyl alcohol and
butyric acid are mainly formed.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
Here's a little food for thought for all those micro-biologists
Paddy at Goat writes:
As with a lot of info on the net, there seems to be a lot of contradictions.
Glycerin has been said to be a valuable biproduct, but retails at £750.00
per tonne (GBP) ex Albion chemicals, UK, which is not that fantastic for
the producer. Other possibilities discussed have
What does glycerine biodegrade into?
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:53:48 -0700
Paddy at Goat writes:
As with a lot of info on the net, there seems to be a lot
Christopher Price asks:
What does glycerine biodegrade into?
Don't know the intermediates, but the
endproducts would be CO2 and H20:
2 C3H8O3 + 7 O2 --- 6 CO2 + 8 H2O
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--
Buy Stock for $4
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FREE Money 2002.
: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
Paddy at Goat writes:
As with a lot of info on the net, there seems to be a lot of
contradictions.
Glycerin has been said to be a valuable biproduct, but retails
at £750.00
per tonne (GBP) ex Albion chemicals, UK, which is not that
fantastic for
the producer. Other
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
Here's a little food for thought for all those micro-biologists
in the biodiesel world.
The glycerin fraction (true glycerin) recovered from the
glycerin layer of a transesterification process which has been
submitted to catalyst neutralization and FFA
Does such a suggestion mean that you're not seeking any type of
residency at your local intentional community?
:-\
Bread not Bombs.
Todd
- Original Message -
From: Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine
Anyone know of any government agency that might want to buy all that
glycerine. - make into bombs and stuff.
add nitric acid to glycerine and shake like crazy. =D Don't do if with
your hand ofcourse. Make something like what the bomb squad use to get rid
of bombs.
What does prime with sugar mean?
Add a small amount of table sugar to get the yeasty beasties to
start digesting.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine
- Original Message -
From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat
t, haven't progressed very far with my investigation of this.
I did try mixing 1 litre of glycerine with 1 litre of
what i would like to know is how to figure out how much methoxide to treat
the glyc pretreated oil...
anton
-Original Message-
From: Paul Gobert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:10 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat
- Original Message -
From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat (was Why people like SUVs
Paul,
Just a suggestion - change the subject line. What you posted - the
(valuable)
Paul,
My pleasure.
Craig
You wrote:
Thanks Craig, bit of a slip up on my part, out of practise I guess, haven't
posted anything for a while.
Also forgot to include that the BD made from the WCSO I used for pretreat
test usually has an SG of around 0.8850. This will give an indication of
- Original Message -
From: Jan Surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Information for Paul,
Maybe instead of bothering with glycerine as fuel one could use it as
a...fertilizer .
I have heard that glycerine after diluting with water can be used a soil
nutrient
jan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wouldn't bank on receipts for crude glycerin to make a business plan
work.
In house refining or conversion maybe.
That's what I'm being told, so I'm looking into products FROM glycerine
that have a larger market and/or higher market value. Acrolein
yes please!
Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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(212) 894-3704 x3154 -
Marc,
Lots of interest here!
Am I to understand that this has potential to lower
energy requirments for alcohol production including
ethanol?
If so the ethanol cooperatives in MN would be hugely
interested as it would serve to delink ethanol
production with natural gas prices. What a coup if
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