RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jones Beene]

Bob,

 

No. A jury trial depends critically on the jury hearing and seeing the
witness actually testify in person - and weighing truthfulness based on the
witness’s demeanor and the handling of hard questions. 

 

IH would never agree to forego direct testimony by the most important
witness in the case and the one most likely to crumble under pressure. 

 

And since when is a megawatt boiler not a boiler? Of course it is a boiler. 

 

 

From: Bob Cook 

 

I doubt that Rossi's device meets the definition of a boiler in the Florida
code.  In addition I would expect that his testimony (deposition) could be
taken remotely, if he were out of the country.   That deposition would
substitute for his presence at the trial.  

 

In addition the misdemeanor charge may be a nit in the big picture that
Peron sees.  I would guess his lawyers would agree.  He may even get
immunity to such a charge from the Florida district attorney, since the
issue is mute.   

 

Bob Cook 

 

From: Peter Gluck 

 

Ø  dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney,
lawyers, hudges...everywhere.

 

Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion… unless you are implying
that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million,  no
matter what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far
off.

 

Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute
is meaningless and often inflated – so consequently, you are either paying
on the clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in
place … which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is
awarded, plus costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the
jury award, not the amount in dispute. 

 

One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossi’s case
on contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the
situation is that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his
attorney would like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same
on the other side. 

 

Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it
comes time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then
the entire case will be tossed… since Penon’s testimony is critical and no
data can be introduced at trial without his physical presence. 

 

It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions
and posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being
fleeced by the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that
predicament, but for different reasons.

 

BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal
team, then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be
unavailable. It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida
for operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US
certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by
IH.

 

If you were Penon, would you return?

 

 

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Bob Cook]

Jones--


I doubt that Rossi's device meets the definition of a boiler in the Florida 
code.  In addition I would expect that his testimony (deposition) could be 
taken remotely, if he were out of the country.   That deposition would 
substitute for his presence at the trial.


In addition the misdemeanor charge may be a nit in the big picture that Peron 
sees.  I would guess his lawyers would agree.  He may even get immunity to such 
a charge from the Florida district attorney, since the issue is mute.


Bob Cook



From: Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 1:54 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!


From: Peter Gluck



Ø  dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, 
lawyers, hudges...everywhere.



Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion... unless you are implying 
that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million,  no matter 
what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far off.



Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute is 
meaningless and often inflated - so consequently, you are either paying on the 
clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in place ... 
which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is awarded, plus 
costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the jury award, not 
the amount in dispute.



One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossi's case on 
contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the situation is 
that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his attorney would 
like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same on the other side.



Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it comes 
time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then the entire 
case will be tossed... since Penon's testimony is critical and no data can be 
introduced at trial without his physical presence.



It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions and 
posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being fleeced by 
the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that predicament, but for 
different reasons.



BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal team, 
then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be unavailable. 
It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a 
boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing 
engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH.



If you were Penon, would you return?

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Bob Cook]

I agree with Axil.  However, Jed must feel it is worthwhile pontificating like 
he does with the same old same old.


Bob Cook



From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 5:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes, ventilation 
holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a waste of time for 
yourself and everybody else.

What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW. He did 
not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know that it 
produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge mistakes. And 
how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and people were not dying 
from the heat. That's proof.

It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a physical 
fact.

Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think you 
need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a magical 
endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You have made 
assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and that any 
engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe these things 
only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there is magic 
endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that.

Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do not 
suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it might have 
been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that, because the pipe 
was half full, and for various other reasons.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

Rossi might lie all the time, but if that lie is not material in meeting
> the legal requirements of the licence, then whatever Rossi might say is
> immaterial.
>

There is no excess heat. The legal requirements of the license are not met
for that reason. Also because Rossi did not teach I.H. his intellectual
property. In that sense you right; it is not Rossi's words that matter, it
is the fact that his machine does not work.

Rossi claims that the ERV report is correct, and therefore I.H. owes him
the $89 million. The report is wrong. The conclusions are wrong. It is true
that what Rossi says does not matter, but that is because any scientist or
engineer will testify that what he says violates the conservation of
energy, and because there are no magic endothermic effects. If Rossi could
prove there is an magic endothermic effect after all, his words would make
a huge difference. He would win a Nobel prize for discovering the magic
endothermic effect.

What he says is immaterial only because it is nonsense.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Axil Axil]

Rossi might lie all the time, but if that lie is not material in meeting
the legal requirements of the licence, then whatever Rossi might say is
immaterial. Jed, you should take a course in systems engineering and
understand how requirements are meet in a test.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes,
>> ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a
>> waste of time for yourself and everybody else.
>>
>
> What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW.
> He did not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know
> that it produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge
> mistakes. And how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and
> people were not dying from the heat. That's proof.
>
> It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a
> physical fact.
>
> Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think
> you need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a
> magical endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You
> have made assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and
> that any engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe
> these things only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there
> is magic endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that.
>
> Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do
> not suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it
> might have been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that,
> because the pipe was half full, and for various other reasons.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes,
> ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a
> waste of time for yourself and everybody else.
>

What are you talking about? Rossi claimed the device was producing 1 MW. He
did not say it was producing 23 kW. Even if he had said that, we know that
it produced no excess heat at all. We also know that Rossi made huge
mistakes. And how do we know this? Because the pipe was half empty, and
people were not dying from the heat. That's proof.

It is not a "line of argument" that the pipe was half full. It is a
physical fact.

Why do you suddenly claim it is not proof or it does not matter? I think
you need to get back to denying it the facts, and to claiming there is a
magical endothermic reaction that swallows up the heat. Be consistent! You
have made assertions that are contrary to the conservation of energy, and
that any engineer or scientist on earth knows cannot be true. You believe
these things only because Rossi said them. If anyone else had claimed there
is magic endothermic process, you would instantly dismiss that.

Either you stick with what you Rossi said, or you admit he is wrong. Do not
suddenly say that his claims don't matter because hypothetically it might
have been 23 kW. He said it was 1 MW. His calorimetry showed that, because
the pipe was half full, and for various other reasons.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Axil Axil]

Well then, your whole line of argument involving half filled pipes,
ventilation holes, fans, people dying from heat exhaustion really is a
waste of time for yourself and everybody else. You are wasting megatones of
internet ink for no proper effect.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements.
>>
>
> The input was ~20 kW. Do you mean a power output of 23 kW would satisfy
> the requirements?
>
> I am sure that if I.H. had measured 23 kW with confidence, and Rossi had
> transferred the IP, they would have paid the $89 million. They said they
> were not that concerned about the letter of the contract. They just wanted
> to see proof of excess heat. Unfortunately, a careful measurement of the
> heat balance showed there was no excess heat. Not even 3 kW.
>
> 23 kW of output with 20 kW input would not measurably change the room
> temperature, but you could measure it with proper calorimetry.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements.
>

The input was ~20 kW. Do you mean a power output of 23 kW would satisfy the
requirements?

I am sure that if I.H. had measured 23 kW with confidence, and Rossi had
transferred the IP, they would have paid the $89 million. They said they
were not that concerned about the letter of the contract. They just wanted
to see proof of excess heat. Unfortunately, a careful measurement of the
heat balance showed there was no excess heat. Not even 3 kW.

23 kW of output with 20 kW input would not measurably change the room
temperature, but you could measure it with proper calorimetry.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Axil Axil]

An power output of 3 KW would still meet the licence requirements. Can't
you understand that power level is not required?  Your arguments are
classic red herring propaganda.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as
>> the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then
>> requirements are meet.
>>
>
> A COP of 4 would mean the output is 80 kW. The room would be quite warm if
> there were this much heat. It was not warm.
>
> Also, the people from I.H. were able to do proper calorimetry, and they
> confirmed there was no excess heat.
>
> If the COP were 4, and Rossi had given I.H. the intellectual property the
> way he was contractually obligated to do, I.H. would have happily paid
> Rossi $89 million, and we would not be having this conversation.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as
> the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then
> requirements are meet.
>

A COP of 4 would mean the output is 80 kW. The room would be quite warm if
there were this much heat. It was not warm.

Also, the people from I.H. were able to do proper calorimetry, and they
confirmed there was no excess heat.

If the COP were 4, and Rossi had given I.H. the intellectual property the
way he was contractually obligated to do, I.H. would have happily paid
Rossi $89 million, and we would not be having this conversation.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Axil Axil]

The is no power requirement defined in the licence agreement. As long as
the steam temperature is 100C and the COP is greater than 4, then
requirements are meet. The reactor could be off for 23.95 hours, be when it
functions, it must been the "100C and the COP is greater than 4"
requirement. Your arguments are Red herrings.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>
>> The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant . . .
>>
>
> You are wrong. Those are photos of the plant, and the plant ceiling, which
> has no ventilation equipment capable of removing 1 MW, or even 100 kW.
>
> I am sure those are photos of the plant. Eyewitnesses have told me this,
> and Rossi's lawyers have not denied it.
>
>
>
>> , you must know well the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as
>> joke
>> The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness.
>>
>
> I am quite certain the pipes were half full, from the description of the
> rust and from eyewitness reports. I am quite sure that you are wrong, and
> that unpressurized pipes are often half full.
>
>
>
>> Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the
>> Judge the Trial is lost by him simply?
>>
>
> You mean the jury. If Rossi cannot explain how 1 MW of energy disappears,
> any scientist or engineer will testify that Rossi is a fraud and that his
> claims are impossible.
>
> You yourself understand the conservation of energy, and you know there can
> be no edothermic process absorbing the heat. I am sure you would agree if
> anyone other than Rossi made this claim. You are blinded by your intense
> desire to believe his claims are real.
>
>
>
>> If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per
>> hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT.
>>
>
> 1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the
> atmosphere, and heat plume was detected. Or it has to be flushed in cold
> water, and it is not possible to have this much water in this building.
>
> The hot air or steam would be easily detected, and it is not. Furthermore,
> there is no conceivable reason why Rossi would take steps to hide the heat,
> since it would prove his claims are real. He would be paid $89 million for
> demonstrating this heat is real. He would not hide it.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 09/18/2016 04:54 PM, Jones Beene wrote:


*From:*Peter Gluck

Ødear Jones,some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the 
attorney, lawyers, hudges...everywhere.


Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion…




Hasn't been that, for at least a couple months.

It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for 
operating a boiler without a license and failing to have US 
certification as a practicing engineer. Actual fraud has been 
mentioned by IH.


If you were Penon, would you return?



Only if I were extradited.

It was a dirty job, and he's surely glad it's over.

RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jones Beene]

From: Peter Gluck 

 

Ø  dear Jones, some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, 
lawyers, hudges...everywhere.

 

Very funny. I mistook this for a serious discussion… unless you are implying 
that this trial will cost Rossi and IH together about $10 million,  no matter 
what the verdict. That is 10% of ~100 million and probably not far off.

 

Otherwise, you must be referring to Romania. In the USA, the sum in dispute is 
meaningless and often inflated – so consequently, you are either paying on the 
clock (exorbitant hourly fee) or there is a contingency agreement in place … 
which is typically one third of the actual judgment which is awarded, plus 
costs and fees. In the USA, contingency fees are based on the jury award, not 
the amount in dispute. 

 

One of the beauties of capitalism, no? Few lawyers would touch Rossi’s case on 
contingency, given his history of legal problems. Most likely the situation is 
that he is being bled, drop by drop by high hourly fees and his attorney would 
like to drag that blood-letting out as long as possible. Same on the other 
side. 

 

Looking ahead, I agree with Brian Ahern who has opined that as soon as it comes 
time to produce Penon for deposition, if he does not show up - then the entire 
case will be tossed… since Penon’s testimony is critical and no data can be 
introduced at trial without his physical presence. 

 

It is futile to quibble over these small details about the filings, motions and 
posturing, until the depositions. Bottom line: both sides are being fleeced by 
the legal system. And both are probably deserving of that predicament, but for 
different reasons.

 

BTW - If Penon shows up for deposition, and holds up against the IH legal team, 
then there could be a settlement, but chances are that he will be unavailable. 
It is clear that Penon is facing misdemeanor charges in Florida for operating a 
boiler without a license and failing to have US certification as a practicing 
engineer. Actual fraud has been mentioned by IH.

 

If you were Penon, would you return?

 

 

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

I mean to say:

1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the
atmosphere, and NO heat plume was detected.

No plume of hot air or steam. This would be easy to detect. It would be
impossible to hide. There is no reason why Rossi would hide it, as I said.
He claimed that the process underway in the JM factory was secret, but
nothing about ordinary ventilation equipment would be secret.

There was, in fact, no process underway in the JM facility. No one went in
or came out. No raw materials were brought or finished products removed. It
was an empty room.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:


> The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant . . .
>

You are wrong. Those are photos of the plant, and the plant ceiling, which
has no ventilation equipment capable of removing 1 MW, or even 100 kW.

I am sure those are photos of the plant. Eyewitnesses have told me this,
and Rossi's lawyers have not denied it.



> , you must know well the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as
> joke
> The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness.
>

I am quite certain the pipes were half full, from the description of the
rust and from eyewitness reports. I am quite sure that you are wrong, and
that unpressurized pipes are often half full.



> Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the
> Judge the Trial is lost by him simply?
>

You mean the jury. If Rossi cannot explain how 1 MW of energy disappears,
any scientist or engineer will testify that Rossi is a fraud and that his
claims are impossible.

You yourself understand the conservation of energy, and you know there can
be no edothermic process absorbing the heat. I am sure you would agree if
anyone other than Rossi made this claim. You are blinded by your intense
desire to believe his claims are real.



> If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per
> hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT.
>

1.4 tons of steam cannot magically disappear. It has to be released to the
atmosphere, and heat plume was detected. Or it has to be flushed in cold
water, and it is not possible to have this much water in this building.

The hot air or steam would be easily detected, and it is not. Furthermore,
there is no conceivable reason why Rossi would take steps to hide the heat,
since it would prove his claims are real. He would be paid $89 million for
demonstrating this heat is real. He would not hide it.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Peter Gluck]

Jed,

The photos up;oaded have nothing to do with the plant, you must know well
the diagram and half full pipes are not good even as joke
The idea of not pressurized is a new ineptness. Kind of kitschy vaudeville.

Are you aware that if Rosi does not explain thee nergy consuume to the
Judge the Trial is lost by him simply?

If for you the consume use dumping of the heat of 1.4 tons of steam per
hour is such an impossibility better stay with IT.

peter

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
> You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the
>> plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it
>> seriously)
>>
>
> Of course I am serious. I have uploaded photos of half-full pipes. This
> pipe is not pressurized so it can easily be half full.
>
> When Rossi tells you he as an endothermic industrial process that absorbs
> 1 MW of heat continuously for months, you take that seriously. You believe
> it. I do not accuse you of pretending. So you should not accuse me of not
> believing something that anyone can easily produce with any open pipe and
> flow of water.
>
>
>
>> and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy
>> consumed and who  is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably.
>>
>
> No one "knows how the energy was consumed." Rossi's explanation is
> impossible. Only you believe it, because you believe anything Rossi says.
> If anyone else had told you this, with your engineering background you
> would instantly see that it is nonsense.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the
> plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it
> seriously)
>

Of course I am serious. I have uploaded photos of half-full pipes. This
pipe is not pressurized so it can easily be half full.

When Rossi tells you he as an endothermic industrial process that absorbs 1
MW of heat continuously for months, you take that seriously. You believe
it. I do not accuse you of pretending. So you should not accuse me of not
believing something that anyone can easily produce with any open pipe and
flow of water.



> and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy
> consumed and who  is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably.
>

No one "knows how the energy was consumed." Rossi's explanation is
impossible. Only you believe it, because you believe anything Rossi says.
If anyone else had told you this, with your engineering background you
would instantly see that it is nonsense.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Peter Gluck]

dear Jones,

some 10% of the sum in dispute usually goes to the attorney, lawyers,
hudges...everywhere.
Te problem depends on the reality of the technology of Rossi and on the
billionaire or not statuses of Darden and Vaughn.
peter

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> To be brutally honest – why should any of us waste time over the minutiae
> of this case? It’s all about “billable hours” … and if anything changes
> before the trial, usually it’s less likely to favor the plaintiff.
>
>
>
> The going rate for top corporate law firms is over $1000 per hour. (Forbes
> says its over $1500 !). The only winners, as in most lawsuits, will be the
> attorneys. Think of each of these filings as a new Mercedes.
>
>
>
> Rossi and IH are both bleeding and in death throes … neither will survive,
> but sadly, the biggest loser of all is the LENR community. What we need to
> get out of this funk is any kind of valid scientific breakthrough, even a
> modest one, so we can forget Rossigate and move on.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>
>
>
> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>
>
> you can now prove that you have good sources of information;
>
> can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker
>
> explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY?
>
>
>
> I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document.
> You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us.
>
>
>
>
>
> Is this an "elastic" withdrawal?
>
>
>
> If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See:
>
>
>
> http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice
>
>
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jones Beene]

To be brutally honest – why should any of us waste time over the minutiae of 
this case? It’s all about “billable hours” … and if anything changes before the 
trial, usually it’s less likely to favor the plaintiff. 

 

The going rate for top corporate law firms is over $1000 per hour. (Forbes says 
its over $1500 !). The only winners, as in most lawsuits, will be the 
attorneys. Think of each of these filings as a new Mercedes.

 

Rossi and IH are both bleeding and in death throes … neither will survive, but 
sadly, the biggest loser of all is the LENR community. What we need to get out 
of this funk is any kind of valid scientific breakthrough, even a modest one, 
so we can forget Rossigate and move on.

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

Peter Gluck  wrote:

 

you can now prove that you have good sources of information;

can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker

explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY?

 

I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document. You 
should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us.

 

 

Is this an "elastic" withdrawal?

 

If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See:

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice

 

- Jed

 

 

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Peter Gluck]

Thanks! What has surprised me (beyond the genuine legal
aspects) was the chlorotic (weakling) character of their arguments as I
have shown in my EGO OUT editorials of:

Sep 06- "A Stake in Dracula's Heart..(Exhibit 5);
Sep 13- Myths of proofs

You cannot go to a Trial with incredible storiesas half full pipes in the
plant (you defended it heroically but I am convinced you do not take it
seriously)
and the other stories - the Judge already knows how was the energy consumed
and who  is Bass so now IH has to came with a better set, probably.
Do not answer please without solid arguments it seems IH and Co has not 6
Aces in their cards just small values.

Peter

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
> you can now prove that you have good sources of information;
>> can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker
>> explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY?
>>
>
> I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document.
> You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us.
>
>
>
>> Is this an "elastic" withdrawal?
>>
>
> If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See:
>
> http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice
>
> - Jed
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

you can now prove that you have good sources of information;
> can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker
> explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY?
>

I know nothing about laws or lawsuits, and I have not read this document.
You should ask a lawyer. Perhaps Jones Beene can enlighten us.



> Is this an "elastic" withdrawal?
>

If it is "without prejudice" that means it can be re-introduced. See:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Peter Gluck]

Jed,

you can now prove that you have good sources of information;
can you please explain Item 49 from the Miami Court pacermaker
explaining us what has Cherokee et al withdrawn and especially WHY?
Is this an "elastic" withdrawal?
Anyway it sounds not well for "somebody" claiming to have 6 aces in their
cards, isn't it?

peter

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to
>> me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than
>> dismissing Rossi as you do.
>>
>
> I get my information from the researchers. I meet with them every few
> years at ICCF conferences, and we often exchange message when I copy-edit
> their papers.
>
> Where do you get your information? You are wrong.
>
> If you have any doubt about my report, I suggest you contact some
> researchers yourself.
>
>
>>   It also seems there is more research going on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with
>> other governments now starting to back it.
>>
>
> There has been for some time. It has little or nothing to do with Rossi.
> Anyway, Rossi's own credibility is gone, for obvious reasons. Seriously, do
> you think that any scientist or engineer would believe there might be 1 MW
> of heat released in that warehouse facility? Do you think anyone outside of
> Planet Rossi believes there can be an endothermic process that magically
> swallows up that much heat, 24 hours a day, for months? That's crazy. No
> one with a scientific or technical background would believe such nonsense
> if they were not deeply in thrall of Rossi's deceptions. If someone not
> named Rossi said things like that, you and Peter Gluck would instantly
> dismiss them. You only believe it because you are emotionally invested in
> Rossi, you are engaged in wishful thinking, and you cannot face reality.
>
>
>
>> The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not
>> clear how it can be scaled up.
>>
>
> That's incorrect. Many large scale electrolytic devices have been built,
> for various purposes.
>
>
>
>>   I expect to see a commercial unit from Rossi in 6 - 12 months.
>>
>
> You are deluded, as I said. If anything Rossi said were true, he and the
> people in that warehouse facility would be dead. You saw the photos of it;
> you know that as well as I do. You just cannot admit it even to yourself.
>
> It's over. You need to let go of Rossi.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

a.ashfield  wrote:


> I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to
> me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than
> dismissing Rossi as you do.
>

I get my information from the researchers. I meet with them every few years
at ICCF conferences, and we often exchange message when I copy-edit their
papers.

Where do you get your information? You are wrong.

If you have any doubt about my report, I suggest you contact some
researchers yourself.


>   It also seems there is more research going on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with
> other governments now starting to back it.
>

There has been for some time. It has little or nothing to do with Rossi.
Anyway, Rossi's own credibility is gone, for obvious reasons. Seriously, do
you think that any scientist or engineer would believe there might be 1 MW
of heat released in that warehouse facility? Do you think anyone outside of
Planet Rossi believes there can be an endothermic process that magically
swallows up that much heat, 24 hours a day, for months? That's crazy. No
one with a scientific or technical background would believe such nonsense
if they were not deeply in thrall of Rossi's deceptions. If someone not
named Rossi said things like that, you and Peter Gluck would instantly
dismiss them. You only believe it because you are emotionally invested in
Rossi, you are engaged in wishful thinking, and you cannot face reality.



> The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not
> clear how it can be scaled up.
>

That's incorrect. Many large scale electrolytic devices have been built,
for various purposes.



>   I expect to see a commercial unit from Rossi in 6 - 12 months.
>

You are deluded, as I said. If anything Rossi said were true, he and the
people in that warehouse facility would be dead. You saw the photos of it;
you know that as well as I do. You just cannot admit it even to yourself.

It's over. You need to let go of Rossi.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[a.ashfield]

Jed,
I don't know where you are getting your information from but it looks to 
me that others in academia are taking a wait and see stand rather than 
dismissing Rossi as you do.  It also seems there is more research going 
on in Ni/LAH/Li systems with other governments now starting to back it.
The problem with the better proven electrolysis route is that it is not 
clear how it can be scaled up.  I expect to see a commercial unit from 
Rossi in 6 - 12 months.


AA

On 9/16/2016 4:24 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Axil Axil > wrote:

LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and
the Rothwell sect.


That is more or less what has happened. However, you should not call 
it the "Rothwell sect." That gives the impression that I am part of a 
minority, or that I somehow lead the effort. Ask around and you will 
see that nearly all researchers in this field think Rossi is a 
flimflam man and a liar. Rossi has no support among the conventional 
academic researchers. As I pointed out before, Pam boss seems to 
despise him even more than I do.


I do not know anyone who is actually doing research or has published 
papers in this field who supports Rossi. There were a few years ago, 
but not now.


You Rossi supporters are a small minority. A few of you apparently 
still believe Defkalion. I find that mind-boggling, in light of the 
Gamberale report:


http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf

It makes me wonder what do these people have to do before you will 
finally see they are liars. It seems you will excuse anything.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and the
> Rothwell sect.
>

That is more or less what has happened. However, you should not call it the
"Rothwell sect." That gives the impression that I am part of a minority, or
that I somehow lead the effort. Ask around and you will see that nearly all
researchers in this field think Rossi is a flimflam man and a liar. Rossi
has no support among the conventional academic researchers. As I pointed
out before, Pam boss seems to despise him even more than I do.

I do not know anyone who is actually doing research or has published papers
in this field who supports Rossi. There were a few years ago, but not now.

You Rossi supporters are a small minority. A few of you apparently still
believe Defkalion. I find that mind-boggling, in light of the Gamberale
report:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf

It makes me wonder what do these people have to do before you will finally
see they are liars. It seems you will excuse anything.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Stephen A. Lawrence  wrote:

A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund the
>> research. No one else will. No government will.
>>
>
> Once burned twice shy.
>
> Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this
> point?
>

They are supporting other researchers. I know this because I am contact
with I.H. and also with some of the researchers. I do not know how many
researchers are working with them.



> Rossi did a great job.  He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go
> anywhere for a long, long time to come.  Between getting egg on a lot of
> people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF
> experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner . . . whatever
> aura of respectability the field might have had has gone in the dumper at
> this point.
>

I agree. However, I.H. has not given up, fortunately.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Axil Axil]

LENR should breakup into two independent sects, the Rossi sect and the
Rothwell sect. Each of these sects should ignore the other.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence 
wrote:

>
>
> On 09/16/2016 03:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>>
>> A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might fund
>> the research. No one else will. No government will.
>>
>
> Once burned twice shy.
>
> Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this
> point?
>
> Rossi did a great job.  He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go
> anywhere for a long, long time to come.  Between getting egg on a lot of
> people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF
> experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner (which should
> have surprised nobody -- con man versus scientists, con man usually wins),
> whatever aura of respectability the field might have had has gone in the
> dumper at this point.
>
> Anyhow that's my sad opinion on the situation :-(
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 09/16/2016 03:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


A researcher with a good experiment should contact I.H. They might 
fund the research. No one else will. No government will.


Once burned twice shy.

Do you really think I.H. would take another flier on cold fusion at this 
point?


Rossi did a great job.  He has totally nuked the chances of CF to go 
anywhere for a long, long time to come.  Between getting egg on a lot of 
people's faces, costing some people a lot of money, and making some CF 
experts look like idiots for not seeing through him sooner (which should 
have surprised nobody -- con man versus scientists, con man usually 
wins), whatever aura of respectability the field might have had has gone 
in the dumper at this point.


Anyhow that's my sad opinion on the situation :-(

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

It happens I thought first about the classic LENR community.
>

You might as well try to herd cats.



> But your idea can be taken in consideration, what about a league and a
> movement of Sucessful Competitors of the Rossi Technology- as claimed by
> Rossi?
>

Rossi has no technology. If he claims there are competitors, he lies.



> Do yiu see a personality r an organization
> able to unify LENR- in some extent?
>

Given the personalities of the researchers I think this is a forlorn hope.

I do not see much use for unity at this stage. A researcher with a good
experiment should contact I.H. They might fund the research. No one else
will. No government will.



> As Lennart has said there is still no verdict regarding the Rossi
> Technology.
>

He is wrong. The verdict is clear. If Rossi's claims were true everyone in
the warehouse would be dead. If Rossi's claims were even partly true, the
warehouse would have been very hot, and it was not.

The details are spelled out in Exhibit 5, but all you really need to know
is that the warehouse was not as hot as an oven. As you see from the photos
it would have been if there had actually been a 1 MW heat source.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Peter Gluck]

It happens I thought first about the classic LENR community.
But your idea can be taken in consideration, what about a league and a
movement of Sucessful Competitors of the Rossi Technology- as claimed by
Rossi? If unity pro goes with difficulty perhaps unity against something is
more stimulative?
What is your personal strategy? Do yiu see a personality r an organization
able to unify LENR- in some extent?
As Lennart has said there is still no verdict regarding the Rossi
Technology.


peter

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:06 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are
> thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and
> Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Lennart Thornros]

One should not judge without all info.
One does not need to believe that AR has anything, but 'we sure as hell
should' give him the right to prove himself before judgement.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are
> thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and
> Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR needs mortar and unity!

[Jed Rothwell]

We sure as hell do should not unify behind Rossi, if that is what you are
thinking. If researchers endorse flimflam artists such as Rossi and
Defkalion it will be the end of cold fusion.

- Jed