Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:26 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: How many ebola virus can you fit into a droplet in a sneeze or cough??? Does it matter? It takes only one. WHO contradicted CDCP by saying that you can get ebola from a sneeze: http://www.naturalnews.com/047177_Ebola_transmission_direct_contact_aerosolized_particles.html Regarding immunity, 15.3% of people in Gabone villages where there has been no ebola show antibodies. Ebola survivors are generally assumed to be immune to re-infection. http://en.ird.fr/the-media-centre/scientific-newssheets/337-possible-natural-immunity-to-ebola
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On 10/09/2014 10:40 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: WHO contradicted CDCP by saying that you can get ebola from a sneeze: http://www.naturalnews.com If it's in saliva, then why wouldn't it be in a sneeze? Craig
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Hi Terry! I was being sarcastic... I have a colleague who earned his PhD at UCLA in Biology back in the 80s... he used to have lunch with some of the virologists, at the time when HIV was in the news a lot... viruses are good at mutating, but the virologists said that what made HIV difficult to combat/treat is that it is *exceptionally* good at mutating... I hope ebola isn't. Why they don't just send CDC doctors and scientists over to Africa, with all the equipment they need, to keep the virus isolated, is a mystery... -Mark -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:40 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:26 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: How many ebola virus can you fit into a droplet in a sneeze or cough??? Does it matter? It takes only one. WHO contradicted CDCP by saying that you can get ebola from a sneeze: http://www.naturalnews.com/047177_Ebola_transmission_direct_contact_aerosolized_particles.html Regarding immunity, 15.3% of people in Gabone villages where there has been no ebola show antibodies. Ebola survivors are generally assumed to be immune to re-infection. http://en.ird.fr/the-media-centre/scientific-newssheets/337-possible-natural-immunity-to-ebola
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
There is lots of evidence that this can get past biohazard containment procedures: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/07/after-nurse-contracts-ebola-spanish-health-workers-raise-concerns-about-protective-equipment/ If this strain is so infectious that this is so, then would it not be spread by a wet cough or sneeze? Or when someone had just very mild or beginning symptoms? It might be very much not a case of being realistically able to avoid contact if this gets out of hand (and with current attitudes that seems kinda likely) but fighting it off once you have it. John On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. More pessimistically: The Ebola Epidemiology They Won't Talk About http://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ebola-epidemiology-they-wont-talk.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
The big problem is the virus can live on surfaces that have been in contact with bodily fluids. A would-be suicide bomber could do enormous damage during one day on the NYC subways. Someone has to be offering life insurance policies against death by Ebola but I can't imagine how they could set the rates. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 9:26 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: There is lots of evidence that this can get past biohazard containment procedures: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/07/after-nurse-contracts-ebola-spanish-health-workers-raise-concerns-about-protective-equipment/ If this strain is so infectious that this is so, then would it not be spread by a wet cough or sneeze? Or when someone had just very mild or beginning symptoms? It might be very much not a case of being realistically able to avoid contact if this gets out of hand (and with current attitudes that seems kinda likely) but fighting it off once you have it. John On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. More pessimistically: The Ebola Epidemiology They Won't Talk About http://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ebola-epidemiology-they-wont-talk.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave -Original Message- From: John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 8, 2014 10:26 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season There is lots of evidence that this can get past biohazard containment procedures: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/07/after-nurse-contracts-ebola-spanish-health-workers-raise-concerns-about-protective-equipment/ If this strain is so infectious that this is so, then would it not be spread by a wet cough or sneeze? Or when someone had just very mild or beginning symptoms? It might be very much not a case of being realistically able to avoid contact if this gets out of hand (and with current attitudes that seems kinda likely) but fighting it off once you have it. John On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. More pessimistically: The Ebola Epidemiology They Won't Talk About
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
We can hope. The problem is Obama's slogan, applied in the current situation, is all too likely to be fulfilled. Now is not the time for hope but for pessimistic action to prevent change. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:40 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave -Original Message- From: John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 8, 2014 10:26 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season There is lots of evidence that this can get past biohazard containment procedures: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/07/after-nurse-contracts-ebola-spanish-health-workers-raise-concerns-about-protective-equipment/ If this strain is so infectious that this is so, then would it not be spread by a wet cough or sneeze? Or when someone had just very mild or beginning symptoms? It might be very much not a case of being realistically able to avoid contact if this gets out of hand (and with current attitudes that seems kinda likely) but fighting it off once you have it. John On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. More pessimistically: The Ebola Epidemiology They Won't Talk About http://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ebola-epidemiology-they-wont-talk.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 8 Oct 2014 23:40:42 -0400: Hi, Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave If the mortality rate is about 40-60%, doesn't that means that the remainder have sufficient natural immunity? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Additionally some people get it but are apparently symptom-less beyond a light touch of the flu. This could very well be a nutrition issue, such that those with insufficient nutrition fail. On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 5:16 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 8 Oct 2014 23:40:42 -0400: Hi, Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave If the mortality rate is about 40-60%, doesn't that means that the remainder have sufficient natural immunity? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Hopefully. Or maybe not. If they are ambulatory and have a light touch of the flu they are spreading the virus to people who are not so immune for a lot longer duration than if they started exhibiting unmistakable symptoms of Ebola. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:45 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: Additionally some people get it but are apparently symptom-less beyond a light touch of the flu. This could very well be a nutrition issue, such that those with insufficient nutrition fail. On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 5:16 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 8 Oct 2014 23:40:42 -0400: Hi, Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave If the mortality rate is about 40-60%, doesn't that means that the remainder have sufficient natural immunity? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Latest is that a Sheriff’s officer has been admitted and quarantined until they can determine if his symptoms are from ebola… word so far is that he did not have any physical contact with the (now deceased) patient, but was in the patient’s apartment after he had been admitted to the hospital. How many ebola virus can you fit into a droplet in a sneeze or cough??? -mi From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 9:53 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Hopefully. Or maybe not. If they are ambulatory and have a light touch of the flu they are spreading the virus to people who are not so immune for a lot longer duration than if they started exhibiting unmistakable symptoms of Ebola. On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:45 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: Additionally some people get it but are apparently symptom-less beyond a light touch of the flu. This could very well be a nutrition issue, such that those with insufficient nutrition fail. On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 5:16 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 8 Oct 2014 23:40:42 -0400: Hi, Is it possible that most people have a natural immunity to the virus that prevents them from getting the disease? Those few that are not immune then would be the ones that have a low survival rate. If this were the case, the virus might be capable of spreading by way of the air. The Spanish lady apparently received a dose of the disease even when covered well with the best protection and little apparent body fluid contact if any at all. Has it been established that no one has natural immunity or is that just an assumption? Dave If the mortality rate is about 40-60%, doesn't that means that the remainder have sufficient natural immunity? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. More pessimistically: The Ebola Epidemiology They Won't Talk About http://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ebola-epidemiology-they-wont-talk.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I wrote: There was this relevant detail in an NYT story about the man with Ebola who flew into Dallas: ... To update the number of people who may have come into contact with the fellow from West Africa with Ebola who flew into Dallas, it appears we're talking about ~ 100 people rather than 12-18: The Texas health commissioner, Dr. David Lakey, told reporters during an afternoon news conference that officials had encountered “a little bit of hesitancy” in seeking a firm to clean the apartment. ... The delay came amid reports that as many as 100 people could have had contact with the victim, Thomas E. Duncan. And it came a day after the hospital acknowledged it had misdiagnosed him when he first visited. Apparently the apartment has not yet been disinfected, because Texas is having trouble finding a contractor to do the work. In light of the easy spread of the flu in the US and with this story in mind, I find ready assurances that Ebola will not spread in the US to be more aspirational than descriptive. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I wrote: Apparently the apartment has not yet been disinfected, because Texas is having trouble finding a contractor to do the work. ... Some more interesting details from the article I forgot to link to [1]: - The number of ~ 100 people who may have come into contact with the fellow with Ebola does not include secondary contacts. - Hospitals may not necessarily dispose of waste material for Ebola patients due to conflicting guidance from different federal agencies, so it may just be allowed to pile up. - Family members of the fellow were directed to stay at home but violated the order. - A family member of the man who went with him to the hospital the first time claims that he emphatically told workers that he had been in Liberia. This piece of information was not passed to the doctors who diagnosed him and sent him home; apparently they were confident enough in the entrance examination that they saw no need to follow up with the question on their own (this sounds a lot like the doctors passing the hot potato on to the nurses to avoid blame). Eric [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Finally! http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-symptoms-prompt-hospitals-to-brace-for-patients-amid-flu-season/ Hospitals brace for patients with Ebola worries People hear about flu symptoms, they're not paying attention, they haven't been near anybody with Ebola or in an Ebola country, they haven't had fluid contact, they're just nervous, so they show up, said Dr. Arthur Caplan, a medical ethics expert at New York University Langone Medical Center. It means more stressed-out workers, he said. It means more contagiousness of the flu -- sitting together in a hospital. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:07 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola Of course they are concerned about the similarity! They have discussed this in the news. They recommended everyone get a vaccination, as I just said. Good. URL? I've been searching on Google news for weeks to no avail. 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. Do you think the public would understand the model? Do you expect them to work a miracle by coming up with a magic method of instantly determining it is ebola? I expect them to modify their containment economics model not for the public but for funding agencies and other mobilizations.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Now it turns out this patient #1 knew he was infected.. and just wanted world-class, spare-no-expense treatment in the US. I can't blame him. Time to cancel travel visas and ban non-humanitarian travel from infected countries. Some interesting tips and info at this site.. http://ebolaready.com/ On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: Apparently the apartment has not yet been disinfected, because Texas is having trouble finding a contractor to do the work. ... Some more interesting details from the article I forgot to link to [1]: The number of ~ 100 people who may have come into contact with the fellow with Ebola does not include secondary contacts. Hospitals may not necessarily dispose of waste material for Ebola patients due to conflicting guidance from different federal agencies, so it may just be allowed to pile up. Family members of the fellow were directed to stay at home but violated the order. A family member of the man who went with him to the hospital the first time claims that he emphatically told workers that he had been in Liberia. This piece of information was not passed to the doctors who diagnosed him and sent him home; apparently they were confident enough in the entrance examination that they saw no need to follow up with the question on their own (this sounds a lot like the doctors passing the hot potato on to the nurses to avoid blame). Eric [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
The US is susceptible to a Ebola outbreak because a large percentage of the population is health care adverse. This grope of poor people has no health insurance or cannot afford the expense of a long term hospital stay because of sickness. This substantial segment of the population will ignore a high fever hoping that the fever will abate eventually. Furthermore, the US hospital system has a low carrying capacity for Ebola victims because each hospital as just one or two isolation rooms available to confine new Ebola patents. There is a limit to the number of patients that the health system can support. Once the epidemic grows beyond that limit, total isolation of the sick is no longer possible with most victims roaming the streets as happens in Africa. A possible Ebola epidemic is one possible cost for society not providing a single payer government supported health care system. On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Brad Lowe ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Now it turns out this patient #1 knew he was infected.. and just wanted world-class, spare-no-expense treatment in the US. I can't blame him. Time to cancel travel visas and ban non-humanitarian travel from infected countries. Some interesting tips and info at this site.. http://ebolaready.com/ On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: Apparently the apartment has not yet been disinfected, because Texas is having trouble finding a contractor to do the work. ... Some more interesting details from the article I forgot to link to [1]: The number of ~ 100 people who may have come into contact with the fellow with Ebola does not include secondary contacts. Hospitals may not necessarily dispose of waste material for Ebola patients due to conflicting guidance from different federal agencies, so it may just be allowed to pile up. Family members of the fellow were directed to stay at home but violated the order. A family member of the man who went with him to the hospital the first time claims that he emphatically told workers that he had been in Liberia. This piece of information was not passed to the doctors who diagnosed him and sent him home; apparently they were confident enough in the entrance examination that they saw no need to follow up with the question on their own (this sounds a lot like the doctors passing the hot potato on to the nurses to avoid blame). Eric [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
In the movie Contagion, large public arenas are converted into triage and containment facilities. - Reply message - From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Date: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:44 PM
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
This was written in august before the current case of Ebola in the United Sates but it compares Ebola to other diseases which spread more easily. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/05/ebola-worrying-disease quote Far more worrying are diseases that spread exponentially: if one infected person spreads the disease to two or more on average, the illness spreads far quicker and is a much more worrying prospect, even if mortality is considerably lower. The 800-plus deaths from Ebola in Africa so far this year are indisputably tragic, but it is important to keep a sense of proportion – other infectious diseases are far, far deadlier. Since the Ebola outbreak began in February, around 300,000 people have died from malaria http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs094/en/, while tuberculosis http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs104/en/ has likely claimed over 600,000 lives. Ebola might have our attention, but it’s not even close to being the biggest problem in Africa right now. Even Lassa fever http://www.who.int/csr/disease/lassafever/en/, which shares many of the terrifying symptoms of Ebola (including bleeding from the eyelids), kills many more than Ebola – and frequently finds its way to the US http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0404-lassa-fever.html. The most real effect for millions of people reading about Ebola will be fear and stigma. During the Sars outbreak of 2003, Asian-Americans became the targets of just that, with public health hotlines inundated with calls from Americans worried about “buying Asian merchandise”, “living near Asians”, “going to school with Asians”, and more. In the coming months, almost none of us will catch the Ebola virus. Many of us, though, will get fevers, headaches, shivers and more. As planes get grounded, communities are stigmatised, and mildly sick people fear for their lives, it’s worth reflecting what the biggest threat to our collective wellbeing is: rare tropical diseases, or our terrible coverage of them. Harry On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 5:25 PM, hohlr...@gmail.com hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: In the movie Contagion, large public arenas are converted into triage and containment facilities. - Reply message - From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Date: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:44 PM
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
It seems that Mega doses of Vitamin C are very promising: http://exopolitics.blogs.com/ebolagate/2014/09/combating-ebola-how-to-fight-ebola-with-vitamin-c-ascorbic-acid.html Vitamin C is needed to make collagen that keeps your blood on the inside. Ebola causes Vitamin C to drop to Zero until the person dies of extreme scurvy. On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:36 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: They could instill confidence quite simply by issuing the following statement: As President Obama has declared this to be a national security emergency, by executive order $10 billion of the DoD budget has been reallocated to contain the contagion. $5 billion will go to Eiken Chemical Co. for emergency mass production of its 30-minute Ebola test device http://www.ibtimes.com/ebola-outbreak-japan-develops-30-minute-simpler-test-quickly-diagnose-deadly-virus-1675502 for distribution to all US clinics and airports and $5 billion will go to procure biohazard suits for all emergency room personnel, including R95 respirators. All persons exhibiting flu symptoms will be asked to remain in their homes until samples can be drawn and tested for Ebola. In the interim all passing through customs from afflicted countries will be required to provide a blood sample which will be kept in storage until it can be tested. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html There was this relevant detail in an NYT story about the man with Ebola who flew into Dallas: Officials said Wednesday that they believed Mr. Duncan came into contact with 12 to 18 people when he was experiencing active symptoms and when the disease was contagious, and that the daily monitoring of those people had not yet shown them to be infected. I get that public health experts don't want to cause a panic by leaving room for doubt on the handling of the situation. But I think they've gone a little too far in the opposite direction and have given assurances in the face of something that brings some unknowns with it. Expressions of confidence when people can sense this is something that is kind of new can have the effect of undermining rather than bolstering trust in the handling of the situation. Such overconfidence seems to be common before financial crises, for example, and people are attuned to this dynamic. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Seems the human-infectious form of Ebola was patented back in 2010 by a US government lab (CDC): http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1?cl=en Claims: 1. An isolated hEbola virus comprising a nucleic acid molecule... 2. An isolated hEbola virus having Centers for Disease Control Deposit Accession No. 200706291. And likewise any vaccine that might be forthcoming: 3. The hEbola virus of any one of claims 1 or 2 which is killed. 4. The hEbola virus of claim 1 which is an attenuated hEbola virus. 5. The virus of claim 4 wherein at least one property of the attenuated hEbola virus is reduced from among infectivity, replication ability, protein synthesis ability, assembling ability or cytopathic effect. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 01:08 To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.html exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I imagine that the hEbola virus is build, and not a natural variant... Just make a similar one and you get around the patent I suspect that some of the claims are not defendable since it is not clear enough for replication ... especially (5) which is not self evident but is a process in itself. anyway someone can patent a way to make a hEbola attenuated in a better, more easy, innovative way. 2014-10-02 14:30 GMT+02:00 Charles Francis fran...@datacomm.ch: Seems the human-infectious form of Ebola was patented back in 2010 by a US government lab (CDC): http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1?cl=en Claims: 1. An isolated hEbola virus comprising a nucleic acid molecule... 2. An isolated hEbola virus having Centers for Disease Control Deposit Accession No. 200706291. And likewise any vaccine that might be forthcoming: 3. The hEbola virus of any one of claims 1 or 2 which is killed. 4. The hEbola virus of claim 1 which is an attenuated hEbola virus. 5. The virus of claim 4 wherein at least one property of the attenuated hEbola virus is reduced from among infectivity, replication ability, protein synthesis ability, assembling ability or cytopathic effect. *From:* James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 01:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Couldn’t resist this, on a balmy day … Looks like Gilead, the big Pharma located not far from here - which conspiracy-theory pundits say is poised to become the IG Farben of the New World Order, seems to have its foot in the ebola door, as expected. http://www.bidnessetc.com/24103-ebola-drug-zmapps-success-paves-way-for-other-antibody-treatments/ The ‘good book’ repeatedly mentions a “balm of Gilead” as more than symbolism, and it has become deeply ingrained in modern culture, thanks to TV evangelists… possibly as some kind of a miracle cure direct from Yahweh… (or maybe it comes from Yahoo) but anyway, it is a cure only for benefit of the “chosen” (and presumably denied to heathens). That would be in the sense of “population control”. The balm of Gilead was an actual remedy some 3000 years ago - for what would now be called the flu. A big surprise is that Gilead’s diminutive former CEO was not involved in the current ebola panic … or was he? Someone from Gilead seems to be pulling strings every flu season to overhype their latest snake oil cure. CDC was on the verge of naming a virus after them, at least before the generous the very Gilead PAC started handing out large $tipends at stockholders expense. Now they want to run under the radar, but Gilead cannot rewrite history – how it profited mightily on the vastly overhyped Tamiflu, bird flu, swine flu, AIDS and so on in rapid succession, and can afford to pay the current CEO well over $40 million per year by charging exorbitant prices for needed medicine. Most of their med were invented at taxpayer expense in one way or another. As a PR gesture, Gilead sent Tamiflu over to Roche, to clean up the PR mess, but they still get massive royalties, despite having washed their hands of some of the stink. What is the Gilead angle on ebola? Probably a new version of Tamiflu… Tamiflu is the balm of Gilead … meaning that it makes your bank account “run” faster than your nose, after you get the bill… :-) From: Charles Francis Seems the human-infectious form of Ebola was patented back in 2010 by a US government lab (CDC): http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1?cl=en Claims: 1. An isolated hEbola virus comprising a nucleic acid molecule... 2. An isolated hEbola virus having Centers for Disease Control Deposit Accession No. 200706291. And likewise any vaccine that might be forthcoming: 3. The hEbola virus of any one of claims 1 or 2 which is killed. 4. The hEbola virus of claim 1 which is an attenuated hEbola virus. 5. The virus of claim 4 wherein at least one property of the attenuated hEbola virus is reduced from among infectivity, replication ability, protein synthesis ability, assembling ability or cytopathic effect. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 01:08 To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.html CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I don't take conspiracy, except the one of stupidity seriously, because the only horrors that are being planned are public and popular. however if you imagine that some conspiracy is using a disease to establish a control of our freedoms and destinies, you should not use the software of WW2, V like Vendetta vision of dictatorship (even if the mothod is currently used by 2 groups IMHO), but you should open your eyes and see who is promoting the end of democracy , the end of demography, of course only in semi-internal discussion, but not so hidden. in fact it is not far from WW2 process, provided you consider the story from the 20-30s, and not the end of the story which involve dead influence group (except in Ukraine, but CNN is there to correct that fact about heroic UPA)... Sorry I'm a bit dark today because I've seen V like vendetta, Hong Kong, Ebola, Lenin put down by Neo-Nazi under the applause of CNN camera and I've been discussing (?) with people who want to behead scientists... not in the name of a god (sure?), but of rationality and reality... beware of the popular guys, the sacred cows... 2014-10-02 20:10 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: Couldn’t resist this, on a balmy day … Looks like Gilead, the big Pharma located not far from here - which conspiracy-theory pundits say is poised to become the IG Farben of the New World Order, seems to have its foot in the ebola door, as expected. http://www.bidnessetc.com/24103-ebola-drug-zmapps-success-paves-way-for-other-antibody-treatments/ The ‘good book’ repeatedly mentions a “balm of Gilead” as more than symbolism, and it has become deeply ingrained in modern culture, thanks to TV evangelists… possibly as some kind of a miracle cure direct from Yahweh… (or maybe it comes from Yahoo) but anyway, it is a cure only for benefit of the “chosen” (and presumably denied to heathens). That would be in the sense of “population control”. The balm of Gilead was an actual remedy some 3000 years ago - for what would now be called the flu. A big surprise is that Gilead’s diminutive former CEO was not involved in the current ebola panic … or was he? Someone from Gilead seems to be pulling strings every flu season to overhype their latest snake oil cure. CDC was on the verge of naming a virus after them, at least before the generous the very Gilead PAC started handing out large $tipends at stockholders expense. Now they want to run under the radar, but Gilead cannot rewrite history – how it profited mightily on the vastly overhyped Tamiflu, bird flu, swine flu, AIDS and so on in rapid succession, and can afford to pay the current CEO well over $40 million per year by charging exorbitant prices for needed medicine. Most of their med were invented at taxpayer expense in one way or another. As a PR gesture, Gilead sent Tamiflu over to Roche, to clean up the PR mess, but they still get massive royalties, despite having washed their hands of some of the stink. What is the Gilead angle on ebola? Probably a new version of Tamiflu… Tamiflu is the balm of Gilead … meaning that it makes your bank account “run” faster than your nose, after you get the bill… J *From:* Charles Francis Seems the human-infectious form of Ebola was patented back in 2010 by a US government lab (CDC): http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1?cl=en Claims: 1. An isolated hEbola virus comprising a nucleic acid molecule... 2. An isolated hEbola virus having Centers for Disease Control Deposit Accession No. 200706291. And likewise any vaccine that might be forthcoming: 3. The hEbola virus of any one of claims 1 or 2 which is killed. 4. The hEbola virus of claim 1 which is an attenuated hEbola virus. 5. The virus of claim 4 wherein at least one property of the attenuated hEbola virus is reduced from among infectivity, replication ability, protein synthesis ability, assembling ability or cytopathic effect. *From:* James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 01:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
You want conspiracy??? http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2014/08/for-ebola-they-built-drive-through-gas-chambers.html Basically the PCR test is 100% effective at registering positive when tested on someone who has Ebola. It has never been tested on someone without Ebola. So does it test negative if someone doesn't have Ebola Combine this with creepy boxcars with shackles and camps with guillotines. And why not some drive through gas chambers... Surely these things are just for a worst case scenario of civil unrest... Um, I mean worst case that could never happen, right? Nazi Germany couldn't happen again? Well optimistically and skeptically not. But pessimistically and potentially yes. On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: I don't take conspiracy, except the one of stupidity seriously, because the only horrors that are being planned are public and popular. however if you imagine that some conspiracy is using a disease to establish a control of our freedoms and destinies, you should not use the software of WW2, V like Vendetta vision of dictatorship (even if the mothod is currently used by 2 groups IMHO), but you should open your eyes and see who is promoting the end of democracy , the end of demography, of course only in semi-internal discussion, but not so hidden. in fact it is not far from WW2 process, provided you consider the story from the 20-30s, and not the end of the story which involve dead influence group (except in Ukraine, but CNN is there to correct that fact about heroic UPA)... Sorry I'm a bit dark today because I've seen V like vendetta, Hong Kong, Ebola, Lenin put down by Neo-Nazi under the applause of CNN camera and I've been discussing (?) with people who want to behead scientists... not in the name of a god (sure?), but of rationality and reality... beware of the popular guys, the sacred cows... 2014-10-02 20:10 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: Couldn’t resist this, on a balmy day … Looks like Gilead, the big Pharma located not far from here - which conspiracy-theory pundits say is poised to become the IG Farben of the New World Order, seems to have its foot in the ebola door, as expected. http://www.bidnessetc.com/24103-ebola-drug-zmapps-success-paves-way-for-other-antibody-treatments/ The ‘good book’ repeatedly mentions a “balm of Gilead” as more than symbolism, and it has become deeply ingrained in modern culture, thanks to TV evangelists… possibly as some kind of a miracle cure direct from Yahweh… (or maybe it comes from Yahoo) but anyway, it is a cure only for benefit of the “chosen” (and presumably denied to heathens). That would be in the sense of “population control”. The balm of Gilead was an actual remedy some 3000 years ago - for what would now be called the flu. A big surprise is that Gilead’s diminutive former CEO was not involved in the current ebola panic … or was he? Someone from Gilead seems to be pulling strings every flu season to overhype their latest snake oil cure. CDC was on the verge of naming a virus after them, at least before the generous the very Gilead PAC started handing out large $tipends at stockholders expense. Now they want to run under the radar, but Gilead cannot rewrite history – how it profited mightily on the vastly overhyped Tamiflu, bird flu, swine flu, AIDS and so on in rapid succession, and can afford to pay the current CEO well over $40 million per year by charging exorbitant prices for needed medicine. Most of their med were invented at taxpayer expense in one way or another. As a PR gesture, Gilead sent Tamiflu over to Roche, to clean up the PR mess, but they still get massive royalties, despite having washed their hands of some of the stink. What is the Gilead angle on ebola? Probably a new version of Tamiflu… Tamiflu is the balm of Gilead … meaning that it makes your bank account “run” faster than your nose, after you get the bill… J *From:* Charles Francis Seems the human-infectious form of Ebola was patented back in 2010 by a US government lab (CDC): http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1?cl=en Claims: 1. An isolated hEbola virus comprising a nucleic acid molecule... 2. An isolated hEbola virus having Centers for Disease Control Deposit Accession No. 200706291. And likewise any vaccine that might be forthcoming: 3. The hEbola virus of any one of claims 1 or 2 which is killed. 4. The hEbola virus of claim 1 which is an attenuated hEbola virus. 5. The virus of claim 4 wherein at least one property of the attenuated hEbola virus is reduced from among infectivity, replication ability, protein synthesis ability, assembling ability or cytopathic effect. *From:* James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 01:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
The patient in Texas was put in one of the available hospital isolation units and the 3 paramedics have been put into a 21 day isolation at home. But the CDC admits that this patient may have infected others. How long would it take to fill all the isolation units, doctors are infected, and all the EMT's are in isolation or are walking away from their jobs? It was just two weeks ago Obama said it would be unlikely that Ebola would reach the US. Google Ebola unlikely and you'll see everything Ebola is unlikely to do-- go airborne, spread by airplane, become a pandemic... There is no way the US will consider limiting flights and quarantining people from countries with the Ebola epidemic. It never hurts to have a small stock of bleach, gloves, masks, plastic sheeting, food and water... and get yourself a copy of the Richard Preston's Hot Zone if you haven't read it. Its a really horrifying virus. - Brad On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:51 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: And so it begins exactly as I predicted: He went to the emergency room with flu like symptoms and they ... wait for it SENT HIM HOME. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 6:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
There are two rays of hope here: 1) That the high rate of infection in Africa will allow evolution toward greater ambulatory transmission of the virus. This sounds nonsensical at first but you need to understand evolutionary medicine and optimal virulence. There is a good chance the virus will have, among its _many_ mutations, a less virulent strain that allows its victim to remain ambulatory longer and thereby spread it faster than a strain that incapacitates its victim. This creates an evolutionary direction toward a longer period of contagion but lowers its virulence. There is, of course, a huge human cost to this evolution. 2) The Japanese have had, since September 2, a 30 minute Ebola test that they have been ready to mass produce -- unfortunately while the US twiddles its thumbs waiting for an event such as the one that just occurred in Dallas to wake up the slumbering fools. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Brad Lowe ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: The patient in Texas was put in one of the available hospital isolation units and the 3 paramedics have been put into a 21 day isolation at home. But the CDC admits that this patient may have infected others. How long would it take to fill all the isolation units, doctors are infected, and all the EMT's are in isolation or are walking away from their jobs? It was just two weeks ago Obama said it would be unlikely that Ebola would reach the US. Google Ebola unlikely and you'll see everything Ebola is unlikely to do-- go airborne, spread by airplane, become a pandemic... There is no way the US will consider limiting flights and quarantining people from countries with the Ebola epidemic. It never hurts to have a small stock of bleach, gloves, masks, plastic sheeting, food and water... and get yourself a copy of the Richard Preston's Hot Zone if you haven't read it. Its a really horrifying virus. - Brad On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:51 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: And so it begins exactly as I predicted: He went to the emergency room with flu like symptoms and they ... wait for it SENT HIM HOME. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 6:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Brad Lowe ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: It was just two weeks ago Obama said it would be unlikely that Ebola would reach the US. Well, cases were already brought here, deliberately, to Atlanta. As they should have been. If you took that to mean, not a single case of Ebola will reach the US under any circumstances, you do not understand the nature of disease. In the largest, most mobile country on earth, with extreme air transport mobility, it is not possible to exclude the disease entirely. What Obama meant, and what the CDC means, is that an epidemic or pandemic in the U.S. is extremely unlikely. I think that is a reasonable evaluation. If the disease goes pandemic in Africa with millions of people infected, then I think the danger of spreading to epidemic levels in the US Europe and Japan will be much higher. This should have been controlled months ago when it was still below epidemic levels in Africa. People at the CDC and other professionals were pleading for the resources to control it. It is not their fault that this happened. It is the fault of the kleptocracy governments in Africa that have stripped their nations of resources, and it is the fault of people in the U.S. and elsewhere who oppose reasonable levels of funding for healthcare and scientific research because they are opposed to science. They despise rational, objective thinking. I'm looking at you, anti-vaccers, and you, creationists. Here is the world you want put us back in, where children die in agony, writhing in filth on the floor: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html The people at the CDC and Doctors without Borders are dedicated professionals who see this kind of disease in person. Believe me, they know what they are doing and they are trying to stop this. They are not to blame for any of this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html There was this relevant detail in an NYT story about the man with Ebola who flew into Dallas: Officials said Wednesday that they believed Mr. Duncan came into contact with 12 to 18 people when he was experiencing active symptoms and when the disease was contagious, and that the daily monitoring of those people had not yet shown them to be infected. I get that public health experts don't want to cause a panic by leaving room for doubt on the handling of the situation. But I think they've gone a little too far in the opposite direction and have given assurances in the face of something that brings some unknowns with it. Expressions of confidence when people can sense this is something that is kind of new can have the effect of undermining rather than bolstering trust in the handling of the situation. Such overconfidence seems to be common before financial crises, for example, and people are attuned to this dynamic. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
They could instill confidence quite simply by issuing the following statement: As President Obama has declared this to be a national security emergency, by executive order $10 billion of the DoD budget has been reallocated to contain the contagion. $5 billion will go to Eiken Chemical Co. for emergency mass production of its 30-minute Ebola test device http://www.ibtimes.com/ebola-outbreak-japan-develops-30-minute-simpler-test-quickly-diagnose-deadly-virus-1675502 for distribution to all US clinics and airports and $5 billion will go to procure biohazard suits for all emergency room personnel, including R95 respirators. All persons exhibiting flu symptoms will be asked to remain in their homes until samples can be drawn and tested for Ebola. In the interim all passing through customs from afflicted countries will be required to provide a blood sample which will be kept in storage until it can be tested. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-spreading-in-west-africa.html There was this relevant detail in an NYT story about the man with Ebola who flew into Dallas: Officials said Wednesday that they believed Mr. Duncan came into contact with 12 to 18 people when he was experiencing active symptoms and when the disease was contagious, and that the daily monitoring of those people had not yet shown them to be infected. I get that public health experts don't want to cause a panic by leaving room for doubt on the handling of the situation. But I think they've gone a little too far in the opposite direction and have given assurances in the face of something that brings some unknowns with it. Expressions of confidence when people can sense this is something that is kind of new can have the effect of undermining rather than bolstering trust in the handling of the situation. Such overconfidence seems to be common before financial crises, for example, and people are attuned to this dynamic. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. The '70s heralded Ebola with the advent of microwave point to point communications in Africa communities. I think they are cooking the monkeys and/or bats RNA. 3G/4G is making it worse. In the US kids can't breathe, 7 million pigs have died, 70 percent of Florida's citrus trees are dying and millions of starfish are dissolving. Let's Party! On Tuesday, September 30, 2014, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Well, they are flu-like but far more severe. Once the person comes down with a full blown case, no one would confuse it with ordinary flu. It is more like the 1918 avian flu pandemic. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. That's is completely wrong! The CDC is within sight of my office and I know people who work there. News from the CDC is in the Metro section of Atlanta newspapers often. I assure you they are working night and day assessing the impact and taking steps to deal with it. Those people know what they are doing. They are skilled, brave and effective. Until recently they were working on shoestring budgets, in WWII era facilities that were falling down around their ears. (No kidding: the buildings were rotting away so badly they had heavy equipment falling through the floors.) After 9/11 Uncle Sam came up with money to build more modern facilities, but they are still working on tight budgets and accomplishing a great deal. What is frightening about this situation are members of Congress who despise science and want to cut back the CDC and the NIH. They have no idea what is at stake. The administration is paying attention. Obama was here at the CDC recently. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. That is not likely to be causing the epidemic in Africa. It did not cause the 1918 pandemic. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Africa was not in the midst of a flu epidemic so they were able to screen for flu like symptoms as a trigger for quarantine. Moreover your assertion that there are discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. Here is their criteria http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/clinician-information-us-healthcare-settings.html : Illness in a person who has both consistent symptoms and risk factors as follows: 1) Clinical criteria, which includes fever of greater than 38.6 degrees Celsius or 101.5 degrees Fahrenheit, and additional symptoms such as severe headache, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, or unexplained hemorrhage; On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. That is not likely to be causing the epidemic in Africa. It did not cause the 1918 pandemic. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: That's is completely wrong! The CDC is within sight of my office and I know people who work there. News from the CDC is in the Metro section of Atlanta newspapers often. I assure you they are working night and day assessing the impact and taking steps to deal with it. Those people know what they are doing. They are skilled, brave and effective. You just tangled with the wrong guy, Jed. I was the one who contacted the authors of Nature's cover story on AIDS epidemiology (May et al) in 1987 to correct their model -- and guess how I knew about the error? Some grad students at the U of IL had been at the summer seminars held at the CDC and the CDC was relying on the erroneous model -- propagating it uncritically to the students who were then coming back to tell the campus at the U of IL that the AIDS epidemic was over. Indeed, it was according to the model. The correction by May referred to this as some confusion I believe.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Moreover your assertion that there are discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. I did not say that. I said once you get a full-blown case you can tell. It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing, and by the time you finish the tests, the patient may be in dire condition, or dead. That is scary, but it is a fact. That is what the CDC people have been saying. Anything that looks like the flu should be taken seriously, especially if there is the slightest chance the patient may have come in contact with ebola. One thing that would help a lot would be if everyone gets a flu vaccination. That way, any flu-like symptoms will probably not be the flu, so the doctors can look for something else. I say probably not because some people come down with the flu even after getting the vaccination. I did, a few years ago. It was a mild case. Many diseases start off looking like the flu, or like some other common disease. Disease symptoms are often the same in the early stages of an infection. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: You just tangled with the wrong guy, Jed. I was the one who contacted the authors of Nature's cover story on AIDS epidemiology (May et al) in 1987 to correct their model -- and guess how I knew about the error? Some grad students at the U of IL had been at the summer seminars held at the CDC and the CDC was relying on the erroneous model . . . Gee. Did I say that everyone at the CDC is a perfect genius and they have never made a mistake? I do not remember saying that. In my experience, all scientists makes mistakes, because science is hard. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ...discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. If you know those guys and respect them, give one of them a call and do it ASAP.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Here is a good article about how ebola would be treated in the U.S.: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/what-would-happen-if-someone-got-ebola-in-america/375928/ This is how it was, in fact, treated recently in Atlanta, when two infected doctors were airlifted in. One of them was later interviewed in the Atlanta Journal. He described it like this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola Of course they are concerned about the similarity! They have discussed this in the news. They recommended everyone get a vaccination, as I just said. 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. Do you think the public would understand the model? Do you expect them to work a miracle by coming up with a magic method of instantly determining it is ebola? If you are a qualified expert I expect the CDC people working on models will share their data and findings. You should not expect them to drop what they are doing to put a technical analysis on a web site for your benefit. For that matter, it might be out there somewhere already, even if you have not found it. I am sure that doctors and medical researcher who call them are given web page links as needed. If you know those guys and respect them, give one of them a call and do it ASAP. They are doing the best that anyone can. You seem to be demanding the impossible. Anyway, the news reports that someone in the U.S. just came down with ebola in Texas. The patient has been isolated. It has probably not spread. The two patients brought back from Africa and treated in Atlanta did not infect anyone, and they have both been discharged. They are still recovering but they are in no danger and there is no danger they will spread the disease. What more can you demand? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola Of course they are concerned about the similarity! They have discussed this in the news. They recommended everyone get a vaccination, as I just said. Good. URL? I've been searching on Google news for weeks to no avail. 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. Do you think the public would understand the model? Do you expect them to work a miracle by coming up with a magic method of instantly determining it is ebola? I expect them to modify their containment economics model not for the public but for funding agencies and other mobilizations.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Kevin sez: Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? You have eloquently expressed a cross we must all bare: Life is unfair. Get over it. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Kevin, if you find this objectionable, all you have to do is say so and I'll not post another response on this topic. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:52:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] Here is a good article about how ebola would be treated in the U.S.: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/what-would-happen-if-someone-got-ebola-in-america/375928/ This is how it was, in fact, treated recently in Atlanta, when two infected doctors were airlifted in. One of them was later interviewed in the Atlanta Journal. He described it like this. - Jed The problem is not what happens to an infected person once they go to hospital. The problem is how many people have they inadvertently been in contact with during the early stages when the symptoms are still mild and they went to the chemist to buy the Tylenol? (and how many people have those people been in contact with etc. etc.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:46 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The problem is not what happens to an infected person once they go to hospital. ... I see two additional potential problems: - A strain eventually develops that becomes airborne. Perhaps not with this outbreak, but in the next 10-20 years, say. - If it does not become airborne during that time, perhaps there will be a research team from the Netherlands who will try to help it along in the name of science. Eric
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Because it has the OT header. Limited OT postings with that header are allowed because they are easy to filter. Without the header and embedded in on topic threads they annoy. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Date: Tue, Sep 30, 2014 9:53 PM Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
And so it begins exactly as I predicted: He went to the emergency room with flu like symptoms and they ... wait for it SENT HIM HOME http://www.nbcdfw.com/video/#!/news/local/Dallas-Hospital-Patient-Fighting-Ebola-Virus/277694491 . On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 6:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
