On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:04:21PM +1300, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote: > So do we think this reached any kind of consensus? Can I start deleting > code related to source ISOs?
After basically a month with no genuine requirements / use cases identified, yes. > On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 at 00:27, Lukasz Zemczak <lukasz.zemc...@canonical.com> > wrote: > > > Hey Michael! > > > > I basically +1 what Steve said. To add a bit more to this, the current > > source-iso machinery doesn't take snaps into consideration, so the > > resulting isos weren't fully compliant anyway - especially after we > > adopted so many snaps on our images. > > The source iso codebase was in general unmaintained. I remember Laney > > once tried refactoring it to key on amd64 but that actually broke > > things even more, so we decided not to touch it if not needed. > > > > I think archive snapshotting is a much better solution in overall, or > > at least pointing people to the manifest + lists files as a means of > > source retrieval. Maybe even offer a tool that would consume a > > manifest + list file to download all the sources if needed. > > > > I feel like it's the right way to go. I'm not really knowledgeable > > about the licensing compliance bits here of course, but I'm sure we > > can achieve that in a better way than having to provide 6+ isos with > > source content, which in my opinion nowadays wasn't very useful > > anyway. > > > > Cheers, > > > > On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 05:55, Steve Langasek <steve.langa...@ubuntu.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2024 at 04:41:43PM +1300, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote: > > > > Hello release team, > > > > > > > In the course of recent refactorings of ubuntu-cdimage / debian-cd we > > > > somehow broke the building of source ISOs. I doubt this is anything > > very > > > > deep and can surely be fixed but there is another option: stop building > > > > source ISOs. > > > > > > > AFAIU the point of a source ISO is GPL-compliance: if you are hosting > > an > > > > ISO made out of GPL-licensed components you should really also host the > > > > source of those components. However, we put source ISOs on cdimage > > (e.g. > > > > https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/source/20231011.1/source/) not releases, so > > > > everyone (?) who mirrors the ubuntu ISOs for us does not mirror the > > source > > > > ISOs. > > > > > > > As our mirror operators have been working this way for approximately 20 > > > > years without issue, perhaps it's time to stop making source ISOs and > > > > delete even more code from debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage. > > > > > > > WDYAT? > > > > > > As you know, I'm a fan of this. > > > > > > In principle, source images are useful for ensuring the distributors of > > our > > > install images are complying with the terms of the GPL. But this is only > > > true if they are *actually distributed together*, or if the source image > > is > > > somehow useful for a distributor to rely on for the "written offer" > > option > > > under the GPL. > > > > > > As you point out, the image files are not being distributed together. > > > Mirrors of releases.ubuntu.com don't get these source ISOs; and where > > > community flavors are running their own mirrors, AFAIK they aren't > > including > > > the source ISOs. So if they're not being distributed together, the ISOs > > are > > > no better than pointing at the apt archive for source (possibly with an > > > appropriate index - which we do as a matter of course archive as part of > > > point releases, so that it is possible to correctly reconstruct the list > > of > > > required source packages + versions for point release images as well, not > > > just GA images). > > > > > > And we ourselves long ago stopped distributing physical CDs, and I'm not > > > aware of anyone else doing so - and if someone does, I think it's > > unlikely > > > that they are also distributing > > > https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/mantic/release/source/ on 6 DVDs! > > This > > > just isn't a useful structuring of corresponding-source-for-image > > anymore, > > > because we try to include the source for all flavors, and there are a lot > > > more flavors than there were when source ISOs started being built; yet > > we've > > > had zero bug reports from anyone asking to make these source ISOs more > > > useful. > > > > > > And as far as OEM preinstalled systems are concerned, well - those > > systems > > > use customized install media, so the "mainline" Ubuntu source ISOs don't > > > satisfy the "corresponding source" requirement there either. > > > > > > So I think in practice, the source ISOs are not useful in their current > > > state, haven't been for a long time, and therefore we should stop > > producing > > > them. > > > > > > > > > And as to whether there are costs in maintaining these: we basically only > > > build source ISOs once or twice every release cycle, so the machinery to > > do > > > so is very much the opposite of well-oiled. After the 23.10.1 respin of > > the > > > Ubuntu Desktop images, I found that the source ISOs appeared to have > > become > > > un-published, and I found it incredibly difficult to even work out the > > > correct invocation of the commands that would allow me to re-publish the > > > existing ISOs. debian-cd didn't even enter into it, I was just trying to > > > drive ubuntu-cdimage to re-publish the previously built images... > > > > > > Dropping the source ISO builds from the release process (and not having > > to > > > continue supporting them in the code) would be very nice. > > > > > > -- > > > Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free > > OS > > > Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the > > world. > > > Ubuntu Developer > > https://www.debian.org/ > > > slanga...@ubuntu.com > > vor...@debian.org > > > -- > > > Ubuntu-release mailing list > > > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > > > > > > > -- > > Łukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak > > Foundations Team > > Tools Squad Engineering Manager > > lukasz.zemc...@canonical.com > > www.canonical.com > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-release mailing list > > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer https://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org
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