On Wed, 31 Jan 2024 at 13:33, Steve Langasek <steve.langa...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:04:21PM +1300, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote: > > So do we think this reached any kind of consensus? Can I start deleting > > code related to source ISOs? > > After basically a month with no genuine requirements / use cases > identified, > yes. > OK! https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/ubuntu-cdimage/+git/ubuntu-cdimage-1/+merge/459681 https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/debian-cd/+git/ubuntu/+merge/459682 Cheers, mwh > > On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 at 00:27, Lukasz Zemczak < > lukasz.zemc...@canonical.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hey Michael! > > > > > > I basically +1 what Steve said. To add a bit more to this, the current > > > source-iso machinery doesn't take snaps into consideration, so the > > > resulting isos weren't fully compliant anyway - especially after we > > > adopted so many snaps on our images. > > > The source iso codebase was in general unmaintained. I remember Laney > > > once tried refactoring it to key on amd64 but that actually broke > > > things even more, so we decided not to touch it if not needed. > > > > > > I think archive snapshotting is a much better solution in overall, or > > > at least pointing people to the manifest + lists files as a means of > > > source retrieval. Maybe even offer a tool that would consume a > > > manifest + list file to download all the sources if needed. > > > > > > I feel like it's the right way to go. I'm not really knowledgeable > > > about the licensing compliance bits here of course, but I'm sure we > > > can achieve that in a better way than having to provide 6+ isos with > > > source content, which in my opinion nowadays wasn't very useful > > > anyway. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 05:55, Steve Langasek <steve.langa...@ubuntu.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2024 at 04:41:43PM +1300, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote: > > > > > Hello release team, > > > > > > > > > In the course of recent refactorings of ubuntu-cdimage / debian-cd > we > > > > > somehow broke the building of source ISOs. I doubt this is anything > > > very > > > > > deep and can surely be fixed but there is another option: stop > building > > > > > source ISOs. > > > > > > > > > AFAIU the point of a source ISO is GPL-compliance: if you are > hosting > > > an > > > > > ISO made out of GPL-licensed components you should really also > host the > > > > > source of those components. However, we put source ISOs on cdimage > > > (e.g. > > > > > https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/source/20231011.1/source/) not > releases, so > > > > > everyone (?) who mirrors the ubuntu ISOs for us does not mirror the > > > source > > > > > ISOs. > > > > > > > > > As our mirror operators have been working this way for > approximately 20 > > > > > years without issue, perhaps it's time to stop making source ISOs > and > > > > > delete even more code from debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage. > > > > > > > > > WDYAT? > > > > > > > > As you know, I'm a fan of this. > > > > > > > > In principle, source images are useful for ensuring the distributors > of > > > our > > > > install images are complying with the terms of the GPL. But this is > only > > > > true if they are *actually distributed together*, or if the source > image > > > is > > > > somehow useful for a distributor to rely on for the "written offer" > > > option > > > > under the GPL. > > > > > > > > As you point out, the image files are not being distributed together. > > > > Mirrors of releases.ubuntu.com don't get these source ISOs; and > where > > > > community flavors are running their own mirrors, AFAIK they aren't > > > including > > > > the source ISOs. So if they're not being distributed together, the > ISOs > > > are > > > > no better than pointing at the apt archive for source (possibly with > an > > > > appropriate index - which we do as a matter of course archive as > part of > > > > point releases, so that it is possible to correctly reconstruct the > list > > > of > > > > required source packages + versions for point release images as > well, not > > > > just GA images). > > > > > > > > And we ourselves long ago stopped distributing physical CDs, and I'm > not > > > > aware of anyone else doing so - and if someone does, I think it's > > > unlikely > > > > that they are also distributing > > > > https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/mantic/release/source/ on 6 > DVDs! > > > This > > > > just isn't a useful structuring of corresponding-source-for-image > > > anymore, > > > > because we try to include the source for all flavors, and there are > a lot > > > > more flavors than there were when source ISOs started being built; > yet > > > we've > > > > had zero bug reports from anyone asking to make these source ISOs > more > > > > useful. > > > > > > > > And as far as OEM preinstalled systems are concerned, well - those > > > systems > > > > use customized install media, so the "mainline" Ubuntu source ISOs > don't > > > > satisfy the "corresponding source" requirement there either. > > > > > > > > So I think in practice, the source ISOs are not useful in their > current > > > > state, haven't been for a long time, and therefore we should stop > > > producing > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > And as to whether there are costs in maintaining these: we basically > only > > > > build source ISOs once or twice every release cycle, so the > machinery to > > > do > > > > so is very much the opposite of well-oiled. After the 23.10.1 > respin of > > > the > > > > Ubuntu Desktop images, I found that the source ISOs appeared to have > > > become > > > > un-published, and I found it incredibly difficult to even work out > the > > > > correct invocation of the commands that would allow me to re-publish > the > > > > existing ISOs. debian-cd didn't even enter into it, I was just > trying to > > > > drive ubuntu-cdimage to re-publish the previously built images... > > > > > > > > Dropping the source ISO builds from the release process (and not > having > > > to > > > > continue supporting them in the code) would be very nice. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a > Free > > > OS > > > > Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the > > > world. > > > > Ubuntu Developer > > > https://www.debian.org/ > > > > slanga...@ubuntu.com > > > vor...@debian.org > > > > -- > > > > Ubuntu-release mailing list > > > > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com > > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Łukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak > > > Foundations Team > > > Tools Squad Engineering Manager > > > lukasz.zemc...@canonical.com > > > www.canonical.com > > > > > > -- > > > Ubuntu-release mailing list > > > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > > > > -- > Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS > Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. > Ubuntu Developer https://www.debian.org/ > slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org > -- > Ubuntu-release mailing list > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release >
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