CF has not soured me, Randy. Living for 83 years and watching history
unfold has made me more of an realist than I was when I was young and
compared to many people commenting on Vortex. Like everyone, I wish
many things were different and I do what I can to make changes.
However, some changes do not occur easily and need to be acknowledged.
Also, some changes do not occur because the methods used to make the
changes are flawed. For example, I do not believe that fighting to
reduce CO2 is useful until a source of power able to take the place of
coal has been found. Yes, using solar and wind can help, but they are
not steady and are in the wrong place. In addition, they are more
expensive without government support. If a problem is to be solved,
the reality of the problem needs to be acknowledged, not cover the
problem with hope and dreams. Thanks to discovery of more natural gas
in the US, our coal is now being shipped to China rather than being
burned here. Is this progress?
Ed
On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Randy wuller wrote:
Ed:
I really respect you and your work in Cold Fusion but I think the
whole process has soured you. I am sure I don't need to remind you
and everyone else on the vortex that 2100 is 87 years away. I also
think it is self evident that we likely have NO idea what the world
will be like in 87 years, what advances will have been achieved,
what world economics will look like or the state of energy
production. I also think I am safe in predicting that even our best
guesses are probably wildly off as is our current notion of what if
anything we will be able to do to combat weather changes..
I would also like to say to Ed personally that if LENR is ever shown
to be commercially viable the investment in the field will more than
likely be like a tsunami and advances will very likely occur at
breakneck speeds. That in my opinion is the way revolutions occur.
They seldom sneak up on anyone. More often they just sweep the
landscape.
----- Original Message -----
From: Edmund Storms
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100
Yes and we can see this being implemented in the movie "Water
World". Meanwhile, people have to be encouraged to move to higher
ground. Rather than insure houses in impacted areas to rebuild, why
not pay only if the person moves?
Ed
On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:48 PM, David Roberson wrote:
This response is a thought toward problem solving and not climate
change which I have agreed to avoid without proper provocation.
One way to handle habitation when water is the only area available
is to actually build floating structures or to build habitats that
are underwater. With the advancements in material sciences that
are taking place, I can readily visualize new building structures
that use carbon fibers or perhaps silicon ones that are super
strong and flexible. It is not impossible for a large structure or
group of structures to be constructed that float with the tides.
If future generations figure out ways to commute around by air
instead of roadways, then this will be a natural progression.
Besides, I suspect that most work will be performed at home in the
not so distance future and travel to large city structures will be
minimized.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100
You don't. You build dikes and pump out the water, aka Holland.
But you start now to put the system in place as is being considered
but not implemented yet.
Ed
On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
How do you move the New York subway system or the Big Dig in
Boston to higher ground?
Cheers: Axil
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:53 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint <zeropo...@charter.net
> wrote:
Ed stated:
“The discussion now must be how do we respond to the loss of land
presently occupied by millions of people and important
infrastructure.”
There is NO emergency… Sell the house or start moving important
infrastructure to higher ground.
*IF* the oceans do rise significantly, it won’t happen overnight…
it will take years and more likely, decades.
For important infrastructure, planning needs to be done to
determine how much time would be needed to relocate to higher
ground.
For homeowners, pack up your stuff and MOVE! It is that simple
for them…
If you’re smart, sell the place now while beachfront property is
valuable… when your house is underwater it won’t be worth much!
And if all this does happen, it wouldn’t surprise me if those
homeowners think they are entitled to govt aid when they were too
stupid to just move.
-Mark
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100
Dave, I hate to get involved in another debate war, but the
climate change issue is too important to ignore. The ice is
melting world-wide and the average temperature is increasing. The
glaciers are melting and the Arctic regon is losing ice. This fact
is acknowledged by all sides in the debate. The question is only
about the cause. Is the cause part of the natural cycle or is it
caused by man? Either way, the ocean is and will continue to rise
and people had better plan to move if they are in the affected
areas.
I believe, like many other people, that if the main caused is CO2
production, we are too late to stop the process or even to slow it
down. Therefore, the discussion about CO2 is irrelevant. The
discussion now must be how do we respond to the loss of land
presently occupied by millions of people and important
infrastructure. If you want to discuss something important, I
suggest you focus on this question.
Ed
On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:03 PM, David Roberson wrote:
I have not claimed to be an expert in climate change and merely
have an interest. I also have an interest in the well being of
the other people on the earth that we share. You can be assured
that I would be very vocal about climate change affecting us if I
felt that it was a serious risk to mankind and the remainder of
the environment and that now was the only time to react. So far I
have only heard strong sounds emitted by the groups seeking
immediate action who conveniently leave out information that runs
counter to their beliefs. This is unbalanced and dangerous for
those that will be left out of progress due to wasted actions.
It is obvious that every time a storm hits, or a dry spell occurs,
etc. that it becomes blamed upon climate change. This is sheer
nonsense and even the climatologists try to distance their
predictions to some degree from immediate weather effects.
Are you convinced that there are not going to be many positive
effects due to future climate variations, whether caused by man or
not? Would you have the same beliefs if you were living toward
the end of the last ice age? The fear of change is an easy one to
acquire, but should not dominate ones thinking. I make an attempt
to not panic in this case and have faith that we will find a way
to solve any major problems which occur and take advantage of the
good things that happen.
Have you given the Danish scientist Henrick Svensmark's theory
about cosmic rays being a major climate driver equal time? There
is remarkable correlation between what he has theorized and the
climate of the earlier Earth. Anyone who would strongly jump at
the suggestion that the ocean levels will rise 9 meters due to a
theory of a couple of guys should be willing to analyze what might
be a better explanation.
My personal opinion is that now is the time to perform the needed
research and figure out what really is happening. The science is
not settled as some would like us to believe and the cost of
immediate action is much too great unless a truly catastrophic
future is looming. I detect a mixed bag of future effects that we
have a significant amount of time to optimize. Furthermore, as
time progresses our sciences and technology will improve and any
mitigation will become that much easier to achieve. All of us
need to have a little more faith in future generations.
Jed, it makes little difference whether or not you believe me. We
each have our opinions that differ. I have given you a name to
follow up upon of a scientist that does have hand's on experience
that I lack and who is well respected. You can choose not to give
consideration to the other side of this discussion, but I know
that you would be ahead to open your mind just a tiny bit.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100
David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote:
So, when will we begin to see these effects to such a degree that
it will become obvious?
Most experts say the changes are obvious now. And irrefutable.
Perhaps you disagree. I tend to believe experts who have done
hands-on research, based on my experience with cold fusion. Let me
put it this way: If you have published a paper on this subject I
will take your views a lot more seriously.
- Jed
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