To be blunt, part of the reason these thingp have taken so long is that when 
questions are asked, we either get half answers or "well it's in the spec now 
so deal with it". It took me months to finally get a response from you 
concerning errormessage and details which actually addressed my concerns and 
questions with respect and thoroughness. This is yet another reminder of why I 
cannot justify devoting time to spec groups. Maybe you should just maintain the 
IA2 spec yourself, since apparently none of our concerns are actually valid.

Sent from a mobile device

> On 17 Sep. 2016, at 11:25 am, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richsch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Then give it a role but don't take a week of people's time arguing over it. 
> We have harder problems to work on.
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 8:00 PM, James Teh <ja...@nvaccess.org> wrote:
>> 
>> IMO, xml-roles is a really horrible hack. An object attribute makes sense 
>> for things like landmarks because a landmark is more like an attribute of 
>> the element, rather than how it behaves/what it is. I argued a long time ago 
>> that landmark should have been a specific "landmark" attribute, but 
>> xml-roles is nevertheless what we have now. Relying on this hack even 
>> further seems really ugly to me. If figure is an important semantic 
>> construct, it really should have a role, just like heading, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from a mobile device
>> 
>>> On 17 Sep. 2016, at 9:33 am, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richsch...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have not checked. We have been trying to work with you on this first and 
>>> that has taken well over a week on just figure. We are now working with 
>>> other browser and ATVs now. The current mapping also does not require an 
>>> API change.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rich
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger 
>>>>> <richsch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Alex, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> That is indeed what ARIA has as the HTML AAM points to that mapping in 
>>>>> ARIA Core: 
>>>>> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-figure
>>>>> 
>>>>> and the HTML AAM points to it. So, for the figure role we are all set. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is that currently implemented in Firefox when you an element with 
>>>>> role=“figure”? … ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING and xml-roles:figure object attrib
>>>> 
>>>> It's not yet implemented in Firefox. Btw, do you know if other browsers 
>>>> have supported it?
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you do already, I will work with Windows ATVs to start supporting it 
>>>>> on Windows.
>>>> 
>>>> HTML:figure is accessible in Firefox. ARIA role='figure' should have 
>>>> identical mapping. If screen readers support HTML:figure, then they don't 
>>>> have to make any extra effort to support ARIA role='figure'.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>> Please map that for for SVG elements when it is applied as well. Then we 
>>>>> can discuss their participating in a list of figures in ATVs as part of 
>>>>> the AT UIs. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rich
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Alexander Surkov <asur...@mozilla.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, Marcos.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm getting lost in the discussion as it goes in two separate
>>>>>> threads/groups (IAccessible2 one and SVG groups).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I buy Doug's argument [1] that non browser SVG tools may not implement
>>>>>> HTML, but still they are keen to support ARIA to make their products
>>>>>> accessible. This argument can be a justification for ARIA figure role
>>>>>> I think.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having said that, I'm adherent to the idea of re-using HTML elements
>>>>>> in SVG documents. The author should be able to use standard HTML and
>>>>>> SVG blocks to make the content accessible. <foreingObject> perhaps is
>>>>>> not the most convenient structure to embed HTML into SVG, but it
>>>>>> works, which makes ARIA role='figure' less valuable in the browser's
>>>>>> word.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't think that ARIA role='figure', implemented in the browsers,
>>>>>> may harm anyone, I'd be interesting though to hear from other browsers
>>>>>> on this topic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rich, I think ARIA role='figure' should have same IAccessible2 mapping
>>>>>> as HTML figure element has, which is ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING and
>>>>>> xml-roles:figure object attribute.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>> Alexander.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Sep/0053.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Marcos Caceres <mcace...@mozilla.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On September 15, 2016 at 2:10:09 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>>>> (richsch...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Alex, both Doug and Anna have expressed to you the opinion of the SVG 
>>>>>>>> working group to not
>>>>>>>> have those elements in SVG. At this point the discussion on adding or 
>>>>>>>> using them is not
>>>>>>>> productive.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> With all due respect, if Mozilla is supposed to implement this, we
>>>>>>> need our queries addressed properly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mozilla's position is that developers should be able to use existing
>>>>>>> HTML element/attributes in SVG, where they are
>>>>>>> semantically/structurally useful. It clearly doesn't make sense to
>>>>>>> redefine things that are in HTML in some new SVG version.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would kindly ask that Alex's requests for clarification are addressed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Marcos
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>>>>> Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>>> Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
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