Ok. Thank you Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 1:34 PM, James Teh <ja...@nvaccess.org> wrote: > > Getting back to the figure role... > > > In discussing this, I had actually forgotten that Firefox (and Chrome) > already maps the HTML figure tag to role grouping with xml-roles:figure. My > apologies. So, there's no controversy here about the role: role="figure" > should be mapped the same way as HTML figure (role grouping and > xml-roles:figure). > > For reference, there was some controversy about this 5 years ago when this > decision was made. Back then, Alex and I argued it should be a role, but > others disagreed for backwards compat reasons. We ended up agreeing to use > xml-roles. The discussion is on this Mozilla bug: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=658272 > > Jamie > >> On 17/09/2016 11:25 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger wrote: >> Then give it a role but don't take a week of people's time arguing over it. >> We have harder problems to work on. >> >> Rich >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 16, 2016, at 8:00 PM, James Teh <ja...@nvaccess.org> wrote: >> >>> IMO, xml-roles is a really horrible hack. An object attribute makes sense >>> for things like landmarks because a landmark is more like an attribute of >>> the element, rather than how it behaves/what it is. I argued a long time >>> ago that landmark should have been a specific "landmark" attribute, but >>> xml-roles is nevertheless what we have now. Relying on this hack even >>> further seems really ugly to me. If figure is an important semantic >>> construct, it really should have a role, just like heading, etc. >>> >>> >>> Sent from a mobile device >>> >>> On 17 Sep. 2016, at 9:33 am, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richsch...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have not checked. We have been trying to work with you on this first and >>>> that has taken well over a week on just figure. We are now working with >>>> other browser and ATVs now. The current mapping also does not require an >>>> API change. >>>> >>>> >>>> Rich >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger >>>>> <richsch...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> That is indeed what ARIA has as the HTML AAM points to that mapping in >>>>>> ARIA Core: >>>>>> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-figure >>>>>> >>>>>> and the HTML AAM points to it. So, for the figure role we are all set. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is that currently implemented in Firefox when you an element with >>>>>> role=“figure”? … ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING and >>>>>> xml-roles:figure object attrib >>>>> >>>>> It's not yet implemented in Firefox. Btw, do you know if other browsers >>>>> have supported it? >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you do already, I will work with Windows ATVs to start supporting it >>>>>> on Windows. >>>>> >>>>> HTML:figure is accessible in Firefox. ARIA role='figure' should have >>>>> identical mapping. If screen readers support HTML:figure, then they don't >>>>> have to make any extra effort to support ARIA >>>>> role='figure'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Please map that for for SVG elements when it is applied as well. Then we >>>>>> can discuss their participating in a list of figures in ATVs as part of >>>>>> the AT UIs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rich >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rich Schwerdtfeger >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Alexander Surkov <asur...@mozilla.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, Marcos. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm getting lost in the discussion as it goes in two separate >>>>>>> threads/groups (IAccessible2 one and SVG groups). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I buy Doug's argument [1] that >>>>>>> non browser SVG tools may not implement >>>>>>> HTML, but still they are keen to support ARIA to make their products >>>>>>> accessible. This argument can >>>>>>> be a justification for ARIA figure role >>>>>>> I think. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Having said that, I'm adherent to the idea of re-using HTML elements >>>>>>> in SVG documents. The author >>>>>>> should be able to use standard HTML and >>>>>>> SVG blocks to make the content accessible. <foreingObject> perhaps is >>>>>>> not the most convenient structure to embed HTML into SVG, but it >>>>>>> works, which makes ARIA role='figure' less valuable in the browser's >>>>>>> word. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think that ARIA role='figure', implemented in the browsers, >>>>>>> may harm anyone, I'd be interesting though to hear from other browsers >>>>>>> on this topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rich, I think ARIA role='figure' should have same IAccessible2 mapping >>>>>>> as HTML figure element has, which is ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING and >>>>>>> xml-roles:figure object attribute. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> Alexander. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Sep/0053.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Marcos Caceres <mcace...@mozilla.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> On September 15, 2016 at 2:10:09 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger >>>>>>>> (richsch...@gmail.com) wrote: >>>>>>>>> Alex, both Doug and Anna have expressed to you the opinion of the SVG >>>>>>>>> working group to not >>>>>>>>> have those elements in SVG. At this point the discussion on adding or >>>>>>>>> using them is not >>>>>>>>> productive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With all due respect, if Mozilla is supposed to implement this, we >>>>>>>> need our queries addressed properly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mozilla's position is that developers should be able to use existing >>>>>>>> HTML element/attributes in SVG, where they are >>>>>>>> semantically/structurally useful. It clearly doesn't make sense to >>>>>>>> redefine things that are in HTML in some new SVG version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would kindly ask that Alex's requests for clarification are >>>>>>>> addressed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>> Marcos >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list >>>>>> Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list >>>> Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 > > -- > James Teh > Executive Director, NV Access Limited > Ph +61 7 3149 3306 > www.nvaccess.org > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess > Twitter: @NVAccess > SIP: ja...@nvaccess.org
_______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
