There are dozens, maybe hundreds or thousands of advancements in
medicine that have moved the average life expectancy from ~~ 40 years
200 years ago to ~~76 years today.
The difference is many different advances in medicine, which all cost money.
So. If you have money, you can expect to live ~~ 76 years.
If you don't have money, maybe it's closer to 40 years.
Is that fair?
Your answer to that question probably depends on how much money you have.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/18/2015 8:55 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:
The discovery of penicillin literally changed life for all of
humanity. Imagine if Shkreli had invented it. Divorcing ethics from
capitalism is a fool’s fairytale. Anyone who justifies it has never
read about the history of the legal invention of “corporation.”
-Patrick
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2015 11:40 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Captilism (was Martin Shkreli)
You mean to tell me 200 years ago there wasn't any medicine? Sure
it's far superior now, but in the 1800s they had basics.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Lewis Bergman
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I have to disagree. 200 years ago there were practically no
medicines worth talking about yet here we all are. Medicine, while
a fantastic advancement, does not rise to the level of air, water,
food, and shelter.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:17 AM Josh Luthman
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Food, water, shelter, medicine. The things anyone and
everyone need to survive.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Cameron Crum
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Since when has it been a basic human right? Where does it
stop? Why are others forced to pay for peoples bad habits?
Other than congenital defects, and some accidents, most
health problems are due to peoples choices. If our money
is to be confiscated to pay for everyone's "human right",
don't we get a say in how they live? How many other human
rights are being trampled on then?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Josh Luthman
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Should medicine really be part of a system of supply
and demand? I'd agree on the whole hotel thing - you
don't have to stay there - but when you have some
medical condition (and while yes AIDS is something you
can certainly avoid) I think as a society and a
culture we shouldn't deny a basic human right.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Lewis Bergman
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I can't defend his brashness, but the fact remains
that pure capitalism is the best way demonstrated
to date to innovate and health care or pharma is
not exempt. Big rewards encourage big effort
yielding big results. These pharma companies have
something like 7 years until the exclusivity
period expires. That can be a pretty short time to
recover investments. This particular case may be a
bit extreme but to say that capitalism is broken
in America is simply ludicrous.
I recently attended my sons graduation from Texas
Tech on a Friday. Thursday night at the hotel was
$159 and Friday was $269. I don't think that is
price gouging. I think it is a reflection of the
simple fact that there are fewer rooms available
on that particular night than are demanded at
$159. The equilibrium was found at $259 where
supply and demand come closer to being equal. At
that price I still witnessed people turned away
wanting a room due to their poor planning. I don't
think that is price gouging. Their hotel was full
at $269 a night. The next day was $159 again.
Since the hotel was full they probably could have
been even higher.
I really don't understand what people have such a
huge issue with the fundamental theory of supply
and demand. Yes I understand that it is a
potentially life saving drug. There are other
cheaper treatments. Maybe they aren't as good,
which is why they are cheaper. When did we stop
rewarding people for the value they provide? I
know this jerk didn't invent it but he obviously
was willing to reward those who did with a price
they thought fair. Sales over the next few years
will prove if he made a mistake.
Why not force Chuck to sell a unique mount he made
for 5% over cost? Heck, why not only cover his
cost? Why not less than cost and force him to
provide his great product for the good of the
people? There is a reason it is named Animal Farm.
How many have read this book? While not about
capitalism it does speak to the kind of central
control that skulks below the overt argument for
"controlling" this type of behavior.
I know people might die. I'll put on my really
jerky hat and say "so what?". People die every day
for less meaning and in greater numbers. There is
practically a mass suicide movement going on now
with texting and driving. I don't see where people
value there lives or others that much anyway when
reading a text or email is more important than
life itself.
I guess I am just a big libertarian at heart. Give
me the loose framework of a "fair market",
whatever that is, and let the system fight it out.
The word isn't fair, not ever going to be fair,
stop trying to warp it to be that way.
Have fun with that on a Friday and have a Merry
Christmas, Happy Hanuka, or whatever else gets
your boat floating.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:02 AM Patrick Leary
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The irony? Your local poor schlub a-hole can
be arrested and charged if he doubles the
price of gas, water, or other life-critical
goods after a natural disaster – that’s a
crime in America. Meanwhile, it’s completely
legal for a company to raise a life-critical
drug by over 5000% -- that’s capitalism in
America.
Shkreli is only the most written about
example. This “business trend’ is all the rage
and has been widely employed in the U.S. for a
number of years now.
http://news.health.com/2015/09/25/6-insane-examples-of-prescription-drug-price-increases/
Patrick
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:28 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - Martin Shkreli
Apparently this guy AND HIS LAWYER were
arrested today. Everybody knows him as the guy
who raises drug prices 5000%, but I did not
know he live streams almost daily to his fans.
Watch the first video, isn't he just like
every annoying, entitled, slacker kid living
in his parents basement that we have to deal
with bitching about his Internet? Except he is
CEO of a drug company.
I didn't think it was possible to hate him
more, but watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8gjB1PSXv_oAUSAQ16S0fA
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