This argument has three sides. If companies didn’t have government regulation and the threat of lawsuits over their head, the cost of developing new medicines would go down so far everyone could afford the more common ones. The other side of that is that a lot more people would end up with either bogus drugs, disastrous side affects, or long term, possibly terminal damage. You need some regulation but we need to prevent lawyers from filing these massive class action lawsuits 30 years later. That gets built into the price. Then the third side is that if there wasn’t a profit motive, new drugs might never have been developed, especially for diseases where only a very small number of people might have them.
If you want the best drugs, you need to keep the profit motive. However, get the lawyers out of it to start with and then see where prices go. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:56 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Captilism (was Martin Shkreli) The discovery of penicillin literally changed life for all of humanity. Imagine if Shkreli had invented it. Divorcing ethics from capitalism is a fool’s fairytale. Anyone who justifies it has never read about the history of the legal invention of “corporation.” - Patrick From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 11:40 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Captilism (was Martin Shkreli) You mean to tell me 200 years ago there wasn't any medicine? Sure it's far superior now, but in the 1800s they had basics. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: I have to disagree. 200 years ago there were practically no medicines worth talking about yet here we all are. Medicine, while a fantastic advancement, does not rise to the level of air, water, food, and shelter. On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:17 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: Food, water, shelter, medicine. The things anyone and everyone need to survive. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote: Since when has it been a basic human right? Where does it stop? Why are others forced to pay for peoples bad habits? Other than congenital defects, and some accidents, most health problems are due to peoples choices. If our money is to be confiscated to pay for everyone's "human right", don't we get a say in how they live? How many other human rights are being trampled on then? On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: Should medicine really be part of a system of supply and demand? I'd agree on the whole hotel thing - you don't have to stay there - but when you have some medical condition (and while yes AIDS is something you can certainly avoid) I think as a society and a culture we shouldn't deny a basic human right. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: I can't defend his brashness, but the fact remains that pure capitalism is the best way demonstrated to date to innovate and health care or pharma is not exempt. Big rewards encourage big effort yielding big results. These pharma companies have something like 7 years until the exclusivity period expires. That can be a pretty short time to recover investments. This particular case may be a bit extreme but to say that capitalism is broken in America is simply ludicrous. I recently attended my sons graduation from Texas Tech on a Friday. Thursday night at the hotel was $159 and Friday was $269. I don't think that is price gouging. I think it is a reflection of the simple fact that there are fewer rooms available on that particular night than are demanded at $159. The equilibrium was found at $259 where supply and demand come closer to being equal. At that price I still witnessed people turned away wanting a room due to their poor planning. I don't think that is price gouging. Their hotel was full at $269 a night. The next day was $159 again. Since the hotel was full they probably could have been even higher. I really don't understand what people have such a huge issue with the fundamental theory of supply and demand. Yes I understand that it is a potentially life saving drug. There are other cheaper treatments. Maybe they aren't as good, which is why they are cheaper. When did we stop rewarding people for the value they provide? I know this jerk didn't invent it but he obviously was willing to reward those who did with a price they thought fair. Sales over the next few years will prove if he made a mistake. Why not force Chuck to sell a unique mount he made for 5% over cost? Heck, why not only cover his cost? Why not less than cost and force him to provide his great product for the good of the people? There is a reason it is named Animal Farm. How many have read this book? While not about capitalism it does speak to the kind of central control that skulks below the overt argument for "controlling" this type of behavior. I know people might die. I'll put on my really jerky hat and say "so what?". People die every day for less meaning and in greater numbers. There is practically a mass suicide movement going on now with texting and driving. I don't see where people value there lives or others that much anyway when reading a text or email is more important than life itself. I guess I am just a big libertarian at heart. Give me the loose framework of a "fair market", whatever that is, and let the system fight it out. The word isn't fair, not ever going to be fair, stop trying to warp it to be that way. Have fun with that on a Friday and have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, or whatever else gets your boat floating. On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:02 AM Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com<mailto:patrick.le...@telrad.com>> wrote: The irony? Your local poor schlub a-hole can be arrested and charged if he doubles the price of gas, water, or other life-critical goods after a natural disaster – that’s a crime in America. Meanwhile, it’s completely legal for a company to raise a life-critical drug by over 5000% -- that’s capitalism in America. Shkreli is only the most written about example. This “business trend’ is all the rage and has been widely employed in the U.S. for a number of years now. http://news.health.com/2015/09/25/6-insane-examples-of-prescription-drug-price-increases/ Patrick From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:28 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] OT - Martin Shkreli Apparently this guy AND HIS LAWYER were arrested today. Everybody knows him as the guy who raises drug prices 5000%, but I did not know he live streams almost daily to his fans. Watch the first video, isn't he just like every annoying, entitled, slacker kid living in his parents basement that we have to deal with bitching about his Internet? Except he is CEO of a drug company. I didn't think it was possible to hate him more, but watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8gjB1PSXv_oAUSAQ16S0fA ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************
