Agree 100% Forrest. Well put. On Feb 19, 2016 7:23 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < [email protected]> wrote:
> I think the underlying issue here is this: > > It used to be that all of this data was kept locked up (or at least behind > closed doors) in a house, or a place of business, or wherever. If one > wanted the data, the government had to go get a search warrant, enter one's > house, then take the data from you. > > Now it's all electronic - in the cloud, on your phone, etc. etc. etc.. > With the correct tools the government can get that data without jumping > through those hoops. Are those the tools we want the government to have? > > Just because it's electronic and on your phone or in the cloud should it > have any less protections than the paper equivalent you used to keep in a > file or a lockbox? > > The issue here isn't about the case at hand - I think we all agree that > the law enforcement agencies in this case have jumped through all the > correct hoops. It's more about what capability this creates for the next > case where the issue isn't as clear cut. > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yeah, happens, but with Target too. It’s the world we live in. >> Do you trust Walmart or Amazon? This is not just a government type of >> thing. >> >> Was this malicious, or directed? >> It was probably an accident. >> >> And did this harm you? >> >> You can have my DNA if you visit anywhere I am. It literally leaps off >> your body in the form of skin cells etc. Sneeze, lick a stamp, take a dump >> or a piss. The local water and sewer department also have a DNA sample >> from you. Probably get blood type from that too. >> >> With a credit card and a few minutes I will have your SSN and all of >> these addresses. Have done it several times when searching for people. >> >> Fingerprints are all over my car and many other places. >> >> Why is it such an issue if it is digital data, but the raw data is not >> protected? >> >> *From:* Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2016 6:05 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple >> >> >> The last time I trusted the federal government with something very >> important, they let my blood type, fingerprint, DNA, social security >> number, names numbers and addresses of relatives and friends, my wife's >> SSN, and all three of my kid's SSNs data get collected by a third party. >> >> Just an example. >> On Feb 19, 2016 7:01 PM, "Chuck McCown" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> If I have a business in Tooele, Utah, I have to have “Knox Box” on the >>> building with a key in it for the building. The fire department has a key >>> for all the knox boxes. Is that much more invasive than unlocking your >>> phone? Nobody is screaming about that. Happens in many cities. >>> >>> If you have windows in your house, anyone can punch one out and get >>> into your house. But you all have windows. >>> >>> Cops can pull you over with probable cause now. >>> >>> Are you suggesting that if the code gets released in the wild cops are >>> going to engage in an illegal search using this tool? If they are going to >>> mess with you they will simply plant something on you. >>> >>> If this code gets into the wild and is abused in this nature, abut 50 >>> milliseconds later there will be a new version of iOS that will not work >>> with it. >>> >>> So, firemen can be trusted, right? More than the NSA? Drunken fireman >>> buddy with a cop that wants to use the knox box key can be trusted? >>> >>> The IRS can put all my banking and financial in the cloud now as can my >>> bank. A disgruntled employee is all it would take. The bank and the IRS >>> are more trustworthy than the NSA? >>> >>> I don’t have any family pictures that I would be worried if they got >>> published. I am just not catching this paranoid cynicism that seems to be >>> attached to this issue. >>> >>> *From:* Travis Johnson <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2016 5:36 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple >>> >>> What if this path continues, and in the future the police officer that >>> just pulled you over for speeding, suspects you might be up to something >>> else... so he then takes your phone, unlocks it from his car, downloads >>> everything to his laptop, and then sends it off to be inspected? Do you >>> want all your private information (banking, financial, family pictures, >>> etc.) now "in the cloud" for anyone with access to see? >>> >>> Travis >>> >>> On 2/19/2016 5:23 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> What is wrong with the FBI having this ability?� How does that have a >>> negative impact on me? >>> I could argue that it has a positive benefit to the nation.� >>> � >>> *From:* Travis Johnson <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2016 5:15 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple >>> � >>> I don't think that's the case.... do you really see the FBI turning the >>> phone over to Apple? What happens if Apple comes back a week later and says >>> "oops, sorry... we nuked it". The FBI wants Apple to write a new IOS >>> version that will not erase the phone after 10 attempts at the login code. >>> Then the FBI would load that onto the phone, and attempt to brute force the >>> phone combo. >>> >>> At that point, the FBI could do that to any phone in the future as well. >>> >>> Apple is doing the right thing here. >>> >>> Travis >>> >>> >>> On 2/19/2016 4:05 PM, George Skorup wrote: >>> >>> As I understand it, that is exactly what the gov is asking them for. FBI >>> wants Apple to decrypt and send over the data. Nothing more. No "software >>> on every phone" to do this. Just that ONE phone. Get the data, then >>> incinerate the device. >>> >>> On 2/19/2016 4:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote: >>> >>> But they're not actually asking for a back door, are they?� They're >>> just saying 'hey, we have this physical device, can we give it to you, and >>> you get us the data off of it'?� I've got to think that the Engineers at >>> apple have a way to do this thought up.� >>> >>> Although at the same time, If they're trying to unlock the phone, >>> couldn't the Gov't with it's vast resources, just simply make a bit by bit >>> copy of the flash chip in the phone and just go through and try every >>> unlock code? >>> >>> On 2/19/2016 4:54 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>> >>> Yup. Google agrees as well. >>> On Feb 19, 2016 4:52 PM, "Sam Lambie" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Screw the govt. Apple is doing entirely doing the right thing. >>>> � >>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Nate Burke < <[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My Boss and I just had a discussion about this, he think that Cook >>>>> should be in Jail for failing to comply with the order.� >>>>> � >>>>> On 2/19/2016 4:46 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ... What? >>>>> >>>>> Seriously? >>>>> On Feb 19, 2016 4:44 PM, < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Treason? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> *Sam Lambie* >>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech. >>>> 575-758-7598 Office >>>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > -- > *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* > Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 > [email protected] | http://www.packetflux.com > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> <http://facebook.com/packetflux> > <http://twitter.com/@packetflux> > >
