Mike,
But when the squirrel reacts, does it or does it not have only one behavior? Or are you implying that it may climb two trees at the same time? Whatever that behavior is, I don't care, he may dither, oscillate, anything you want, but it does only one thing. He may have considered all options, places to hide, whatever you want. But then, it starts doing only one thing. Which he may change almost immediately if something else comes to attention, but it is only one thing. Sergio From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:36 PM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] The 2 Tests of AGI - generalizability & creativity This is nonsense, Sergio. You're making it up - i.e. "there is only one behavior" - to suit your argument, not from any observation of the real world. Animals don't do just one thing or have just one response. (They wouldn't dither, and oscillate as they do, if that were true). And what is at stake is: (after you've defined their problem, [which you don't do], what are their options - what options do and can they like humans consider? How many places, for example, can a squirrel choose to deal with the problem of hiding his nuts (a problem wh. may have been at the back of your mind) ? There is not a logical set [or "space"] of places. There is a world of places within a limited area (bounded by squirrels' travel capacity). If the squirrel or you wish to find new hiding places within that area, there are, first of all, not an identifiable set of locations. There are endless places and always new places that you or he won't have thought about. And I think it's a fairly safe bet that squirrels keep finding new ones. Similarly if I give you the problem of finding places in an unfamiliar house to hide nuts or jewels, you won't be able to approach it by consulting a logical set/space of "hiding places" or "hiding places for nuts". And you won't be able to google it, or find answers from any scientific or technological body of knowledge. You have to get stuck in and start looking around. Real world problems don't have identifiable sets of options. Scientific, artistic, historical, technological, business, political, economic problems - even physics problems - there aren't any neat sets of options for any of them. That is the acknowledged challenge for modern logic and AI - they are incapable of "real world intelligence" or "real world reasoning". Ben has just written a book on it, and completely avoided the subject much as he did creativity, by sticking to entirely toy logical problems. Take any real world problem - "what were the causes of the French revolution?", "how should Obama handle the election?", why did Obama lie:"yes we can"?, "what shall we have for lunch?", "how can Sergio get a grant?".. and there are no sets. From: Sergio Pissanetzky <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:27 PM To: AGI <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [agi] The 2 Tests of AGI - generalizability & creativity Mike, Civilized behavior, please Mike. When a squirrel sees me coming, he climbs a tree. There is only one behavior in response to that particular situation: how I was coming, how big I was, what direction I was walking, where was the tree, how many branches it had, what position he was in. You name it. There is a very complex, unique set of circumstances surrounding the "see me coming" situation. But the response to all that is only one behavior. Next time, the circumstances may be almost identical, but the devil is in the details: I said "almost." There may be the slightest of differences, yet the squirrel reacts in a completely different way. Maybe the tree is a little bit farther away, or was too thin, or the wind was blowing differently, who knows. Yet, there is only one behavior that follows as a consequence of that set of cirumstances. The same may happen many times, and yes, it is a world of possibilites and a world of behaviors. But for each combination of circumstances, the squirrel executes only one behavior. And that behavior lasts for a short time only, because the squirrel will adjust it again as soon as it encounters other situations or risks. Let's see if we agree up to this point. If we do, then I'll go one step further. 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