Mike, 

 

Who says sets are going to solve a problem? It's inference. You need
inference to solve problems. Inference works on knowledge, that you collect
in sets. Is this philosophy? I don't think so. And it is you who brings me
to philosophy all the time. I want to build my machine. 

 

There is an infinite variety of problem statements written by SM engineers
who want developers to write software to support their respective companies.
I have myself worked in two different companies, big important companies,
Southwestern Bell and Delta Airlines, and that was precisely the work I did,
talking to SM engineers and the developers (SM engineers are precious to the
company, so they are shielded from developers). I've seen my share of
problem statements, but they are all confidential, company property. And I
have seen the entire process where software is created and released, and the
mountains of documentation  that are generated. Each time you call a number
in the SW Bell area you are using my work, because I worked with the
switches. If you fly Delta or use a kiosk or ask a question from an agent
you are using my work. Go tell me about creative. 

 

Ask someone who is in software, perhaps Ben can give you the documentation
for OpenCog. I selected an example used in European universities to teach
refactoring. It is a token ring, sort of an intra-net that supports many
computers that communicate with each other, for example in a University
campus. I published the whole thing, just go and read it, I don't have time
to present my work to you, go and find it yourself. 

 

But that's not all. Just in case you were planning to tell me something
nasty. It doesn't work. None of that works. It's a ridiculous make up that
managers use to appear as if they were in control and draw money from big
companies. Do you know how software is really created? A man creates
software! Only a man can create software. A human, man or woman. All those
program statements change all the time, all the software changes, people are
driven crazy, the workplace is in chaos. There are books and more books,
methods and more methods to supposedly put all that under control. They
don't work. Everything changes, there is an infinite variety of
combinations, it all becomes fluid, squishy, it evades any attempt at
organization. 

 

Until a human takes charge. Only a human has creativity enough to create the
code. And the code is delivered and deployed, and the following day . guess
what . there are changes. Only now it is called maintenance. Again, only
humans can do it. 

 

Demolish? Looking at actual problems? You think I don't know about real
world problems? Ridiculous! Real world problems are what motivate my theory.
Outline the set for a squirrell? Animals don't HAVE a set, they LEARN their
set as they go and they are creative as they go, and their creativity comes
from what they learn. Outlining a set is narrow AI, and that is precisely
what I oppose. And what you oppose, it seems to me.

 

Sergio

 

Sorry, I have other things to do. Good night. 

 

 

From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:28 AM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] The 2 Tests of AGI - generalizability & creativity

 

Sergio,

 

Please give an example not an analysis of what you consider a creative or
real world problem - and how you use a set to solve it.

 

For example,s.o. may ask you : "write a program that will enable me to
compose video essays - an alternative to ibooks Author.." - that's a problem

 

or by all means, give me the problem that your subject-matter engineer or
whoever gave you, in the form given - the original brief

 

or give any other real world problem as it is originally expressed/conceived

 

("Jump on a tree branch", pace your squirrel, "jump over that box", "putt
that golf ball to hole it" are also real/ real world problems)

 

And then explain what set will solve that problem.

 

You say you're a scientist (although what you're arguing below is nothing
but philosophy). A scientist looks at evidence to test his theories. You say
sets will solve real world problems - show me one piece of evidence - one
actual, clearly identified real world problem that bears this out.. 

 

ONe way or another, looking at actual problems will help your theory - even
if only to demolish it. Not looking at them won't help it at all.

 

P.S. If you want to outline the set for a squirrel or a human jumping on a
branch - [perhaps the worst example you could have chosen] - be my guest.

 




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AGI
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