Sergio,
Please give an example not an analysis of what you consider a creative or real
world problem - and how you use a set to solve it.
For example,s.o. may ask you : "write a program that will enable me to compose
video essays - an alternative to ibooks Author.." - that's a problem
or by all means, give me the problem that your subject-matter engineer or
whoever gave you, in the form given - the original brief
or give any other real world problem as it is originally expressed/conceived
("Jump on a tree branch", pace your squirrel, "jump over that box", "putt that
golf ball to hole it" are also real/ real world problems)
And then explain what set will solve that problem.
You say you're a scientist (although what you're arguing below is nothing but
philosophy). A scientist looks at evidence to test his theories. You say sets
will solve real world problems - show me one piece of evidence - one actual,
clearly identified real world problem that bears this out..
ONe way or another, looking at actual problems will help your theory - even if
only to demolish it. Not looking at them won't help it at all.
P.S. If you want to outline the set for a squirrel or a human jumping on a
branch - [perhaps the worst example you could have chosen] - be my guest.
From: Sergio Pissanetzky
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:00 PM
To: AGI
Subject: RE: [agi] The 2 Tests of AGI - generalizability & creativity
MIKE> can you identify one creative, real world problem that can be solved by
sets?
SERGIO> Easy. I already have, and I published it. I have used causets to solve
problems of object-oriented analysis. This is a creative task. You talk to a
subject-matter engineer, he explains to you what he wants, and you are supposed
to CREATE objects, classes of objects, hierarchies, software, user interfaces,
etc. Not your taste? Sorry, I have to start somewhere, I can't do everything at
the same time.
MIKE> That is the final solution. And it is a single solution (or single set).
MIKE> sets have nothing to do with creative, real world problems.
Then why are you using sets? Answer: sets have no special powers. You use them
because they help you to express.
MIKE> The light bulb will be ever refined and ever new alternatives found.
SERGIO> Of course. But that's only because we acquire new information, we
learn. Current light bulbs use knowledge that was not available to Edison when
he designed his. Likewise, the squirrel changes strategy on the go, as he
learns. He may start climbing a tree and the LEARN that I came too close and
decide to jump to the next tree. Just to find out that there is another
squirrel in that tree defending its territory. That is creative, is it not?
Lesson: behaviors depend on information, information determines behaviors. But
information constantly changes, and behaviors follow, giving the impression
that the squirrel creatively adjusts its behavior to the circumstances. This is
how creativity works.
Mike, please stop describing complexity to me. I know what it is. Start telling
me what you plan to do about it. Really, what do you plan to do about
complexity? I am doing what I can. Are you?
Sergio
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:41 PM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] The 2 Tests of AGI - generalizability & creativity
We only do - loosely speaking - one thing at a time.
When I add 22 + 22 - I come to one thing, 44. Ditto if I I deduce from if p
then q, p.... I come to one thing, q.
Similarly, when Edison finished solving the problem of electric light, he came
up with one thing - one light bulb, at a certain point.
But the mental procedures of coming to the one solution in rational and
creative problems are opposite.
And the options at the end - when I have produced that one thing are also
different. IN a rational problem, there are no more options. That is the final
solution. And it is a single solution (or single set).
But in a creative problem, the solution is only one of an infinity or world of
possible solutions - and, it is typically, just the start of further actual
solutions. The light bulb will be ever refined and ever new alternatives found.
IN addition, in a creative problem, people often present multiple solutions not
just - multiple designs for a new light bulb.
Ditto, the squirrel's reactions and human reactions are capable of further
alternatives and refinement, and typically receive further refinement - and may
involve multiple rather than single reactions.
And to repeat, logic and sets have nothing to do with creative, real world
problems.
I've answered your question, now answer mine - can you identify one creative,
real world problem that can be solved by sets?
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