On 01/08/2013 07:28 PM, Matt Mahoney wrote:
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 3:58 AM, just camel <[email protected]> wrote:
On 01/08/2013 06:06 PM, Matt Mahoney wrote:
If this happens (and it will), it means lower prices for most of the
stuff you buy because the sellers pay lower shipping costs. When you
spend the money you saved on other stuff, it will create new jobs to
replace those lost. Overall there is a net benefit.
there is not ... many jobs get los and will NOT be replaced. we need less
and less overall people working ... that is just obvious.
If it is so obvious, then why hasn't automation produced mass
unemployment? Would you prefer to go back to sustenance farming when
that was what everyone did?
It is producing mass unemployment right now. Do you read the news? And i
want to go forward to a system in which nobody is actually required to
work. In which we kick out the billions of irrelevant systemic jobs and
share the little remaining work among people who care to contribute
stuff. It is common here in europe for people to do stuff voluntarely.
(voluntary fire brigade, ambulance, red cross, teaching, parenting, etc.
...) And in which we also free people from all the unnecessary fears of
not being able to make a living ... of failing ... of not being good
enough, etc., in which relationships are based on trust and not on
profit, etc., etc., ...
because we have invented hundreds of millions of IRRELEVANT jobs. insurance
brokers, marketing, advertisement, millions of politicians nobody really
needs, bankers, patent clerks, the infamous "inspectors of inspectors" as
buckminster fuller called it ... and we also need to hold on to stupid jobs
because of our socioeconomic paradigm needs them like salespeople.
Do you really think that businesses are so stupid that they hire
people for work that doesn't need to be done?
Well it is obvious that mentioned institutions and jobs do not
contribute anything to society and would be irrelevant and a sane and
cooperative socioeconomic system. Feel free to explain how insurance
agents contribute anything meaningful to our well being and how in a
society not based on fear and competition insurances would make any
sense. The same goes for millions if not billions of other jobs.
The necessary redistribution of wealth is a sign that the whole idea
is flawed by design and it is also not even working at all.
...
The US got millions of homeless people and ten times as much vacant
properties ... tell me all about how well wealth redistribution is working.
So does that mean you are for wealth redistribution or against it?
I am for a system that does not require wealth distribution by design.
If I sell you a broken car and ask you if you are for or against having
it repaired you would probably also want a car that is not broken in the
first place.
People do not enjoy working within this system and that is no surprise.
So are you for machines doing this work instead, or not?
I am all for full automation ... but that will only work out in a
cooperative socioeconomic framework. There is no way we can (and should)
employ every human being. There are not even enough meaningful jobs as
of today. Therefore we need to give people access to everything they
need and many things they want (and which can be produced in abundance)
without requiring them to work at all. It is called "Resource Based
Economy" or "Post Scarcity Economy".
I consider you to be a damn smart person and I don't believe that you
would be unable to see how a humane and effective socioeconomic model
would look like? You should be even more tired of this framework than I am.
-- Matt Mahoney, [email protected]
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