TJ. Our society is already morphing in that direction, e.g. with Social Security, Basic Food, subsidized Obamacare, etc., so that ~half of all people in America now receive some sort of public assistance. We seem to be on a clear path toward low-end socialization. There seems to be no way to "flip a switch" to a better system, but things are moving in that direction anyway.
The Netherlands has gone much further in that direction. Maybe we should just adopt another system, like we now encourage other countries (like Iraq) to adopt our system?!!! Kinda sounds like religion, doesn't it? *Steve* ============== On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:47 PM, TJ Katal <[email protected]> wrote: > barriers to entry are bad in my opinion > > On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Steve Richfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Simon, >> >> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:25 PM, simon <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> What we actually need is to reach the point where we create more >>> resources than we collectively spend, in a renewable fashion. >>> >> >> Can you describe how such a system might work, e.g. why would anyone >> bother participating in such a system if they already get all they need or >> want without participating? >> >> The rest is futilities. >>> >> >> ... I think you mean workaround until we find a good path forward. >> >> *Steve* >> ============ >> >>> >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 13:09:41 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [agi] Humans for Transparency in Artificial Intelligence >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> >>> >>> OK, so what we seem to need is a clear statement of how an alternative >>> FUNCTIONAL economy might work, and a blueprint of how to morph from here to >>> there without the population starving halfway through the process. >>> >>> I envision a sort of split economy, where everyone is guaranteed a low >>> level of support, e.g. a place to pitch their tent, nutritious food, >>> Internet access, etc. However, if they want more, like a nice home and a >>> new car, they can supplement their VERY basic income by working, >>> innovating, etc. In short, socialism at the bottom, and capitalism at the >>> top. >>> >>> The 1% effect could easily be fixed with a small wealth tax on all >>> assets not otherwise taxed - stocks, bonds, savings, etc., akin to zakat, >>> so that non-productive wealth would eventually be redistributed. >>> >>> What do YOU see as a desirable achievable future. >>> >>> *Steve* >>> ============== >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 8:23 AM, justcamel <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> All the people you mentioned stand for the same broken monetary system, >>> cancerous "growth" and 2-3 billion #bullshitjobs which are destroying us >>> and our planet. >>> >>> It's quite interesting how people talk about differences between Clinton >>> and Trump when there basically are none on a fundamental level ... >>> >>> Also, implementing a #basicincome within the current broken monetary >>> system is stupid. The system will collapse anyway and you'll just hear a >>> lot of "Our economy collapses because of communist ideas such as the >>> #basicincome!!!" propaganda ... which is not helping the idea at all. As >>> long as people don't question the way we create money as interest-bearing >>> debt and as long as people don't understand that "growth" and "more jobs" >>> are the last things we need, there will be no politician to talk about >>> those things ... >>> >>> >>> On 12.03.2016 05:38, Logan Streondj wrote: >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> I'm just happy I don't live in US of A. >>> >>> I like my cold low density Canada, >>> w00t w00t Trudeau w00t w00t >>> Leader of the future. >>> >>> Basic income, legal MJ nation wide, >>> actually talking to advisors and people, >>> gender and ethnically diverse cabinet. >>> >>> It's like Canadian banks and Credit Unions, >>> just everyone loves them, they are so helpful and kind. >>> >>> Everyone is polite and friendly, (in small cities anyways), >>> smiles, hellos and how are you's everywhere you go, >>> and not just "have a good day" but "have a great day"! >>> >>> If you're different, that's just cause for bigger smiles, >>> cause it's always wonderful to see something new and different, >>> with diversity is strength in our collage of culture. >>> >>> Like it's just so marvelous and great, >>> profound joy swimming in plethora of goodness. >>> >>> Though I dono maybe it's all the meditation. >>> *shrugs* >>> >>> I guess Trump is like the antithesis of Trudeau, >>> with whoever wins, Bernie, Clinton or Trump, >>> I don't see it making much difference. >>> All of them will wage wars overseas, >>> all of them will support Israel, >>> even Trump as it's a "strategic ally", >>> so to me I don't really care. >>> >>> Not that I have anything against Israel, >>> though some governments aren't supporting them, >>> due to Palestine conflicts and such. >>> >>> Only difference might be internal, >>> Trump will give tax breaks to the rich, >>> tell the poor they are lazy, >>> and the working class will have fewer jobs, >>> because even if he deports all the human tomato pickers, >>> they will simply be replaced by robots. >>> And he wouldn't stand in the way of corporate profit. >>> >>> Bernie might make it marginally more live able for the poor, >>> Clinton is a wild card, but as a women she is more likely to integrate >>> opinions of others into her decisions, so America might have some >>> genuine growth and renewal, though of what kind depends on her advisors. >>> >>> On 03/11/2016 10:33 PM, Alan Grimes wrote: >>> >>> EdFromNH . wrote: >>> >>> Humanity currently IS quite stupid and self destructive. >>> (Witness Trump's current popularity as a candidate for the most >>> important job in the world, based on little more than a barrage >>> of empty, impossible to fulfill promises). And it is not clear >>> humanity is capable of dealing with the powers that >>> superintelligence can create. But the superintelligence genie is >>> not going to be put back in the bottle. There is too much money >>> and power to be had by developing and using it. So let us at >>> least try to increase the number of intelligent humans and >>> institutions that understand the danger better, so humanity an at >>> least have a chance of surviving it for several more generations >>> to come. >>> >>> Look, u are not going to get Bernie Sanders because the political >>> establishment has rigged all the voting machines to switch the >>> votes to Hillary, whom most people want gone. =\ >>> >>> I require one and only one task from Trump, to break the >>> stranglehold of the political establishment on our electoral >>> process. Everything else is gravy. I voted for him in the primaries >>> and I hope to vote for him again in November. >>> >>> - -- Logan Streondj, >>> A dream of Gaia's future. >>> http://joyfullifestyle.ca >>> >>> You can use encrypted email with me, >>> how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ >>> key fingerprint: >>> BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJW451ZAAoJEIbY/Hz61ycpoqQP/jtr4I269RIvvTFdgliPRi94 >>> mAxPDWovgOt+u+CvmQ8/GexaBBh9p7+Q/e9FttPmoISzjcnZix1gqvcw4heHRSxD >>> 8KwBiVSi6WMUOT601yBPVuzuZ40kFYPrDa+XGH82iPQ8ffj6233yx+3OviB0S3se >>> vkbKw0Ph/67W/rfydL87CPJWNzuJ27wTM3iYMp+9fqPAnr+RTozxhS7UbdY55C9Q >>> HrX0at7mDMYMZSWxrNivI+9snHPK4hzSCdgWUNKy07qb4iQBsdH9feesGVMCYiha >>> SZTwj2JYMwt1lTU3pDRhBma2gkznxXtLeDYUEDaiD6m+hd1mM46BBKjkv3ix0XCm >>> UMjtw6lzOVRnZ3Pcn5mHt5bGP+8ct5i107eC3DBwqTESFiI4c9viy6wlPIK4a2uB >>> s5wqQgMCe6Lp+6tfMWdFu1vkwOlZJzimomSFLVMjuMIezSJKqzNv72a67CigFbS/ >>> YaXy6ZZ6P0iB2FycknkMeCEP8fYqcefEK2Ma00INFo4tDxgnMW2S8VAJtT9BX21p >>> f5V5GwqKU7hmwdq8gmyh3ajeIiZj+iku+6FeHOXxD0sRRoNnv6QLCmmZ6A6ddS8I >>> Tc6VAAEvRQvu6jLy7uYemzvpOeyF8mfkS/HKvoBZNybaDTdrD0sGLznM0HeFFwLF >>> lQwqF9U7568LFSaSZ0RY >>> =harH >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23508161-fa52c03c >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a >>> six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back >>> full employment. >>> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/27714077-224a20ec> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a >> six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back >> full employment. >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26971539-9c060d2f> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full employment. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
