yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p
Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a "playful obnoxiousness" is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a "troll" > because I > > feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to > AGI, > > rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation > > Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle > difference in tones, but his comments often sound that "You AGIers are > so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are > saying ... Now let me tell you ...". > > I don't enjoy this tone. > > Pei > > > > However, I find conversing with him generally frustrating because he > > combines > > > > A) > > extremely strong intuitive opinions about AGI topics > > > > with > > > > B) > > almost utter ignorance of the details of AGI (or standard AI), or the > > background knowledge needed to appreciate these details when compactly > > communicated > > > > > > This means that discussions with Mike never seem to get anywhere... and, > > frankly, I usually regret getting into them > > > > I would find it more rewarding by far to engage in discussion with > someone > > who had Mike's same philosophy and ideas (which I disagree strongly > with), > > but had enough technical background to actually debate the details of AGI > in > > a meaningful way > > > > For example, Selmer Bringjord (an AI expert, not on this list) seems to > > share a fair number of Mike's ideas, but discussions with him are less > > frustrating because rather than wasting time on misunderstandings, basics > > and terminology, one cuts VERY QUICKLY to the deep points of conceptual > > disagreement > > > > ben g > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Pei Wang <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> BillK, > >> > >> Thanks for the reminder. I didn't reply to him, but still got involved. > >> :-( > >> > >> I certainty don't want to encourage bad behaviors in this mailing > >> list. Here "bad behaviors" are not in the conclusions or arguments, > >> but in the way they are presented, as well as in the > >> politeness/rudeness toward other people. > >> > >> Pei > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:38 AM, BillK <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Mike Tintner wrote: > >> >> > >> >> (On the contrary, Pei, you can't get more narrow-minded than rational > >> >> thinking. That's its strength and its weakness). > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Pei > >> > > >> > In case you haven't noticed, you won't gain anything from trying to > >> > engage with the troll. > >> > > >> > Mike does not discuss anything. He states his opinions in many > >> > different ways, pretending to respond to those that waste their time > >> > talking to him. But no matter what points are raised in discussion > >> > with him, they will only be used as an excuse to produce yet another > >> > variation of his unchanged opinions. He doesn't have any technical > >> > programming or AI background, so he can't understand that type of > >> > argument. > >> > > >> > He is against the whole basis of AGI research. He believes that > >> > rationality is a dead end, a dying culture, so deep-down, rational > >> > arguments mean little to him. > >> > > >> > Don't feed the troll! > >> > (Unless you really, really, think he might say something useful to you > >> > instead of just wasting your time). > >> > > >> > > >> > BillK > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------- > >> > agi > >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > >> > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> agi > >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > > > -- > > Ben Goertzel, PhD > > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > > Director of Research, SIAI > > [email protected] > > > > "I intend to live forever, or die trying." > > -- Groucho Marx > > > > ________________________________ > > agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [email protected] "I intend to live forever, or die trying." -- Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
