Depends how you define "success". Commercial success, perhaps so (Hulu
has definitely show it can be done very successfully).

But In IETF, we do "running codes". A solution that requires using a
proprietary technology that does not allow it to be widely adopted,
regardless of its commercial success, is not successful by IETF
standard.

ps: I am not against "protecting copyrighted content" but that can
deal with in other venue, not embedded into internet protocols.

-James Seng

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:25 PM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wouldn't a standard meeting the legitimate needs of all parties stand a much 
> greater chance of success?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fabio Hecht
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:14 AM
> To: Richard Bennett
> Cc: alto
> Subject: Re: [alto] Paper on "Pushing BitTorrent Locality to the Limit"
>
>
> I understand, but I believe that will lead to most users not using ALTO.
>
> Regards Fabio
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 01:39 -0800, Richard Bennett wrote:
>> That's not an unusual situation for globally-deployed network systems.
>> Wi-Fi uses unlicensed radio channels in several regulatory domains that
>> don't exactly line up with each other in terms of the frequencies and
>> power levels that are permitted. The relevant standards body, IEEE
>> 802.11, didn't define channels and power levels as "out of scope", they
>> embraced the problem and permitted the appropriate regulations to be
>> plugged-in to standards-conformant systems at run time.
>>
>> It's not impossible, or even especially difficult, to create standards
>> that include the application of local variations. There are all sorts of
>> legal restrictions on content and privacy around the world, and I'd
>> rather take the adult approach and make the ALTO protocol capable of
>> conforming to law and regulation by design rather than through some
>> external workaround.
>>
>> Take that for what it's worth, I'm still coming up to speed on this effort.
>>
>> RB
>>
>> Fabio Hecht wrote:
>> > Don't forget to take into account that what is illegal where you live
>> > may be perfectly legal somewhere else, and vice versa. I think it is
>> > clearly declared out of scope of the charter for a very good reason.
>> >
>> > Regards Fabio
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 08:15 +0800, James Seng wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good point.
>> >>
>> >> My view is that one can be reasonably solved technically without human
>> >> intervention and one is not.
>> >>
>> >> I love to see a working scalable technical solution that can identify
>> >> copyright content in an encrypted stream.
>> >>
>> >> -James Seng
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:02 AM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal)
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> That seems like a constructive suggestion.  Thank you.
>> >>>
>> >>> I do have one question regarding policies.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is protecting privacy a requirement and protecting copyrighted
>> >>> content a policy?
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Richard Bennett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:43 PM
>> >>> To: Nicholas Weaver
>> >>> Cc: DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal); [email protected]; Arnaud Legout; Paul
>> >>> Jessop; Craig Seidel; Le Blond, Stevens
>> >>> Subject: Re: [alto] Paper on "Pushing BitTorrent Locality to the Limit"
>> >>>
>> >>> It strikes me that the discovery of illegal content is a local policy
>> >>> decision. There are jurisdictions that require it and those that forbid
>> >>> it. Perhaps ALTO needs to support a policy option that allows content
>> >>> descriptors to be queried, blocked, or redirected in the interest of
>> >>> local laws and regulations.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't want to spoil anybody's fun, of course.
>> >>>
>> >>> RB
>> >>>
>> >>> Nicholas Weaver wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:15 PM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> You note that "A localization service doesn't have to discriminate
>> >>>>> [between legit and illegit P2P]..."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't understand why it wouldn't.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What's the point of facilitating the illegal distribution of
>> >>>>>
>> >>> copyrighted
>> >>>
>> >>>>> content?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And how would one justify that?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Under the same justification that you allow BitTorrent at all: You
>> >>>> DON'T know that it is copyrighted, it could be Linux ISOs, with enough
>> >>>>
>> >>>> probability that you can't just block the protocol and you can't sue
>> >>>> BitTorrent Inc into submission under the Napster and related methods.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Or that you allow HTTP traffic, after all, that could be copyrighted
>> >>>> material, kiddie porn, or other bad content.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is not the responsibility of the network to police content, and a
>> >>>> localization service doesn't actually have to know what it is
>> >>>> localizing, so it is not in a position to police content one way or
>> >>>> the other.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> EG, ask localization service "Who else is accessing 512b-random-ID
>> >>>> SHA-512 file descriptor", and the localization service has no notion
>> >>>> what the resource is, just a list of who's accessing it.  Its in many
>> >>>> ways easier to make a localization service which is agnostic.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> alto mailing list
>> >>>> [email protected]
>> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>> >>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Richard Bennett
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> alto mailing list
>> >>> [email protected]
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> alto mailing list
>> >> [email protected]
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> --
> Fabio Hecht
>
> University of Zurich - Department of Informatics (IfI)
> Binzmühlestrasse 14 CH-8050 Zürich, Switzerland
> Ph.: +41 44 6357129 / 6350892  Fax: +41 44 6356809
> VoIP sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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