I appreciate your reasonableness and need to note two things: I lack the skills to define where a solution goes and I'm not suggesting the use of a proprietary technology.
I am suggesting that unless we recognize (and address) the root of the congestion problem ALTO seeks to solve, ALTO's effectiveness is likely to be compromised from the start. Does that make sense? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Seng Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:39 AM To: DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) Cc: Fabio Hecht; Richard Bennett; alto Subject: Re: [alto] Paper on "Pushing BitTorrent Locality to the Limit" Depends how you define "success". Commercial success, perhaps so (Hulu has definitely show it can be done very successfully). But In IETF, we do "running codes". A solution that requires using a proprietary technology that does not allow it to be widely adopted, regardless of its commercial success, is not successful by IETF standard. ps: I am not against "protecting copyrighted content" but that can deal with in other venue, not embedded into internet protocols. -James Seng On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:25 PM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wouldn't a standard meeting the legitimate needs of all parties stand a much > greater chance of success? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fabio Hecht > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:14 AM > To: Richard Bennett > Cc: alto > Subject: Re: [alto] Paper on "Pushing BitTorrent Locality to the Limit" > > > I understand, but I believe that will lead to most users not using ALTO. > > Regards Fabio > > > On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 01:39 -0800, Richard Bennett wrote: >> That's not an unusual situation for globally-deployed network systems. >> Wi-Fi uses unlicensed radio channels in several regulatory domains that >> don't exactly line up with each other in terms of the frequencies and >> power levels that are permitted. The relevant standards body, IEEE >> 802.11, didn't define channels and power levels as "out of scope", they >> embraced the problem and permitted the appropriate regulations to be >> plugged-in to standards-conformant systems at run time. >> >> It's not impossible, or even especially difficult, to create standards >> that include the application of local variations. There are all sorts of >> legal restrictions on content and privacy around the world, and I'd >> rather take the adult approach and make the ALTO protocol capable of >> conforming to law and regulation by design rather than through some >> external workaround. >> >> Take that for what it's worth, I'm still coming up to speed on this effort. >> >> RB >> >> Fabio Hecht wrote: >> > Don't forget to take into account that what is illegal where you live >> > may be perfectly legal somewhere else, and vice versa. I think it is >> > clearly declared out of scope of the charter for a very good reason. >> > >> > Regards Fabio >> > >> > >> > On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 08:15 +0800, James Seng wrote: >> > >> >> Good point. >> >> >> >> My view is that one can be reasonably solved technically without human >> >> intervention and one is not. >> >> >> >> I love to see a working scalable technical solution that can identify >> >> copyright content in an encrypted stream. >> >> >> >> -James Seng >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:02 AM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> That seems like a constructive suggestion. Thank you. >> >>> >> >>> I do have one question regarding policies. >> >>> >> >>> Why is protecting privacy a requirement and protecting copyrighted >> >>> content a policy? >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Richard Bennett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:43 PM >> >>> To: Nicholas Weaver >> >>> Cc: DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal); [email protected]; Arnaud Legout; Paul >> >>> Jessop; Craig Seidel; Le Blond, Stevens >> >>> Subject: Re: [alto] Paper on "Pushing BitTorrent Locality to the Limit" >> >>> >> >>> It strikes me that the discovery of illegal content is a local policy >> >>> decision. There are jurisdictions that require it and those that forbid >> >>> it. Perhaps ALTO needs to support a policy option that allows content >> >>> descriptors to be queried, blocked, or redirected in the interest of >> >>> local laws and regulations. >> >>> >> >>> I don't want to spoil anybody's fun, of course. >> >>> >> >>> RB >> >>> >> >>> Nicholas Weaver wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:15 PM, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> You note that "A localization service doesn't have to discriminate >> >>>>> [between legit and illegit P2P]..." >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't understand why it wouldn't. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> What's the point of facilitating the illegal distribution of >> >>>>> >> >>> copyrighted >> >>> >> >>>>> content? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And how would one justify that? >> >>>>> >> >>>> Under the same justification that you allow BitTorrent at all: You >> >>>> DON'T know that it is copyrighted, it could be Linux ISOs, with enough >> >>>> >> >>>> probability that you can't just block the protocol and you can't sue >> >>>> BitTorrent Inc into submission under the Napster and related methods. >> >>>> >> >>>> Or that you allow HTTP traffic, after all, that could be copyrighted >> >>>> material, kiddie porn, or other bad content. >> >>>> >> >>>> It is not the responsibility of the network to police content, and a >> >>>> localization service doesn't actually have to know what it is >> >>>> localizing, so it is not in a position to police content one way or >> >>>> the other. >> >>>> >> >>>> EG, ask localization service "Who else is accessing 512b-random-ID >> >>>> SHA-512 file descriptor", and the localization service has no notion >> >>>> what the resource is, just a list of who's accessing it. Its in many >> >>>> ways easier to make a localization service which is agnostic. >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> alto mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto >> >>>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Richard Bennett >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> alto mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> alto mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto >> >> >> >> >> > -- > Fabio Hecht > > University of Zurich - Department of Informatics (IfI) > Binzmühlestrasse 14 CH-8050 Zürich, Switzerland > Ph.: +41 44 6357129 / 6350892 Fax: +41 44 6356809 > VoIP sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _______________________________________________ > alto mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto > _______________________________________________ > alto mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto > _______________________________________________ alto mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
