Debbie, Just like today, there are things that families will speak about and there are things they will not speak about.
If the married man came forward and acknowledged the children, then yes, the children would state on their marriage (or on the baptism of their own kids) who the father was. If the married man never came forward, then it wasn't spoken of. And yes, at least half the freguesia probably knew who the father was. At least with 3 kids (hopefully by the same man), DNA can reveal who that man is, as long as there are testers from the married man's family. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:21 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca < [email protected]> wrote: > Can you move into the marriage records of those illegitimate children and > see who they listed as their parents? Possibly even passports? It seems > like they would have knowledge of the married man. > > Debbie > > > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:12 AM Margaret Vicente < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello Sandra, >> >> >> >> In order to visualize what happened I had to do a time line so I could >> see what and when. >> >> First two children: legitimate of Manuel Silveira de Brum and Genoveva >> Inacia >> >> >> >> 08-02-1869 Manuel f.o legitimo Mel Silveira de Brum e Genoveva Inacia >> >> 05-11-1871 Maria fa legitima Mel Silveira de Brum, Agricultor e Genoveva >> Inacia >> >> >> >> In between 1871 and 1874 – Manuel Silveira passed away – >> >> >> >> Genoveva continued to have children, “naturally” and of “unknown” father: >> >> 26-09-1874 Joao fo natural de Genovea inacia, viuva de >> >> 08-11-1877 Maria fa natural Genoveva inacia, viuva de >> >> 10-06-1880 Francisca fa natural Genoveva inacia, viuva de >> >> >> >> Marriage of Maria do Rosario, says “Illegitimate” daughter of Genoveva, >> viuva. With this “qualification” the illegitimate indicates the unknown >> father was a married man, that’s where the “illegitimate” versus natural, >> were the father single, or widower. >> >> >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Margaret >> >> >> >> *From: *Sandra Valine Dauer <[email protected]> >> *Sent: *August 3, 2019 1:15 PM >> *To: *[email protected] >> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Genoveva Inacia five children livng >> Almagreira(Lajes do Pico) >> >> >> >> Sorry here is the link for the 1898 marriage of Maria do Rosario daughter >> of Genoveva >> >> bottom right top left >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-C-1888-1899/PIC-LJ-LAJES-C-1888-1899_item1/P112.html >> >> >> Thanks Sandra Valine Dauer >> >> >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:56 AM Sandra Valine Dauer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Gayle thanks for the idea. Here is Maria Rosario marriage record. I >> think it says illegitimate? daughter of Genoveva da Conceicao with no >> mention of a Father. Is this correct? Need help with the lines after >> describing the witness Jose Maria Bettencourt. >> >> For Genoveva's daughter Francisca I have not found her marriage record >> in California. She first married Manuel Vieira Pinheiro, lived in Fresno >> County, California had ten children, Manuel died 1922. Next she married >> Manuel Rodrigues aka Rodgers or Rogers. Francisca died 1947 and is buried >> with her first husband in Selma, Calfornia. >> >> Thanks Sandra Valine Dauer >> >> >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 12:39 AM 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Sandra, >> >> >> >> This situation does seem unusual (at least to me. ) I checked with CITCEM >> and that database lists the last three children with “pai incognito” so I >> went back to the actual records and noticed that the last three were listed >> as “natural” not legitimate children of Genoveva. I’m wondering whether it >> was known or merely assumed Manuel Silveira Brum was deceased. If merely >> assumed, maybe she couldn’t remarry. Have you looked for the marriages of >> the last three children to see if a “father” was suddenly known or remained >> incognito ? If known, who was he ? Sounds like fun figuring this out. 🙃 >> >> >> >> Gayle >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2019, at 9:11 PM, Sandra Valine Dauer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Genoveva is listing as birth Mother and Manuel Silviera Brum as Father on >> the first two children. On the last three children she is listed a widow. >> On the 4th child widow of Manuel Silveira. Is the correct on the five >> records? Anyone have similar ancestors where the Father is absent and or >> she is considered a widow? The links are listed below. Thank you Sandra >> Valine Dauer >> >> 1. Manuel bottom right top left No 18 >> >> >> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P37.html >> >> >> 2. Maria bottom left top right No 81 >> >> >> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P113.html >> >> >> 3. Joao bottom right top left No 84 >> >> >> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P215.html >> >> >> 4. Maria Bottom right top left No 87 >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1875-1877/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1875-1877_item1/P74.html >> >> >> 5. Francisca Bottom left top right No 47 >> >> >> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1875-1881/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1875-1881_item1/P159.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CABrGor__Vd%3D3DAXkNrga2uu4-PjD0ZBfoUwAF8ku1_PJeJo-3Q%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CABrGor__Vd%3D3DAXkNrga2uu4-PjD0ZBfoUwAF8ku1_PJeJo-3Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/D5E60845-3AB3-4FA9-890E-80D3B9D01187%40aol.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/D5E60845-3AB3-4FA9-890E-80D3B9D01187%40aol.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CABrGor8ciZOCtng%2BBz0OExO5RPwC1vWP_J071ubWe_%3D_YNnvcQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CABrGor8ciZOCtng%2BBz0OExO5RPwC1vWP_J071ubWe_%3D_YNnvcQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5d45ce76.1c69fb81.d3747.c9a2%40mx.google.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5d45ce76.1c69fb81.d3747.c9a2%40mx.google.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050tf2wfLP%2BUUxBt5h0_FhPV9aqHVzTJ%3DjnoLSnBjxbCJcg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050tf2wfLP%2BUUxBt5h0_FhPV9aqHVzTJ%3DjnoLSnBjxbCJcg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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