The BMW UUC Digest 
Volume 1 : Issue 42 : "text" Format

Messages in this Issue:
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
  Re: [uuc] oil in intake manifold, M30 engine
  Re: [uuc] oil in intake manifold, M30 engine
  Re: '95 slam
  Re: '95 slam
  Re: M vs E46 non-M
  Re: Reference Only E36 95' Avus Blue M3 w/66K for $7250.00
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs
  E28 Heater Core ??
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions
  Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:25:31 -0500
From: "Robert Jackowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Gary,
having owned both and currently driving an E46M3, I think that you will be quite
happy in an E36M3. It is truly a great car. The E46 is not 80% better than the 
E36. Actually, I would argue that the E36's capabilites are 80% of the E46's and, 
using your pricing, at 60% of the cost.
E46M3 does not like snow as the DSC system is too invasive.
I would suggest a '96 or '97 E36 which came with LSD and traction control, a perfect
combination of electronic aids that was not overly invasive.
I drove my '97 through snow-storms and ice-storms on stock hi-po tires with no 
problems. I could 
not do the same with my E46.
You're an ///M man already so I'm sure that you appreciate the differences over the
stock models...I'd also take an E36M3 over a stock E46 anyday.
Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Vetick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [UUC] [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3
and non-M3)


Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]


digest members:

i'm comtemplating the purchase of another pre-owned vehicle and am seeking
informed opinions about the relative merits/desirability of an E36 M3 vs an
E46 either M3 or non-M3.

first the background information:

* the car will be a daily driver and will not be stored in winters (there's
already an E30 M3 in storage)
* the car will be driven approximately 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year with
40% being local and 60% being long-distance trips to client locations.
* i assume i could purchase a very nice, late model, low mileage E36 M3 for
$20,000 to $25,000.  it would include all the available safety equipment
available in 1998 and 1999 (i.e. front and side impact airbags).
* i assume i could purchase a very nice 2001 or 2002 E46 M3 for $38,000 to
$45,000.  it would include the same safety equipment as above, plus the head
protection system.
* i would feel much better about driving a $25,000 vehicle in the snow and
salt than i would about a $45,000 vehicle.
* 333 hp is more than i need.

so my questions come down to:

* is the E46 M3 80% better than the E36 M3 and does it therefore justify the
additional cost?
* is it better to stay away from the earlier generation of electronics in
the E36 and go with the E46?
* if the E46 M3 is more car than i need, could i find happiness with the E46
325 or 330?

any input is greatly appreciated.

gary vetick
omaha, nebraska


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:23:43 -0600
From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Gary Vetick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I currently own a heavily modified 95 M3 and a somewhat modified 2002
330i, both 5 speeds.  I drive them both frequently (330i 36K miles, M3
20K miles + 3 D/Es this year).

My 95 M3 has: TC Kline trackline suspension with Ground Control Solid
RTABs, Front Control arm bushings and shock mounts.  X-brace.  Euro
floating rotors in front.  UUC lightweight flywheel stock M3 clutch with
Rogue Octane shifter with WSR.  96 M3 SS headers with track pipe cat
replacement with X crossover into a stock M3 rear muffler.  TMS carbon
fiber intake/ITG filter/Euro HFM/24lb fuel injectors/Conforti Sotware.
Recently installed but not yet tuned SMT-6 piggyback computer. 18" BBS
RX-II rims with Kumho Ecsta MX tires. Plus lot's of other stuff that I
am sure I have forgotten.

330i:  ECIS cold air intake with cone filter. UUC Evo II shifter.  H&R
coilover suspension, UUC sway barbarian F&R sway bars.  I ordered it
with basically all of the options except the phone, so it is a bloated
pig of a car and it has the 18" "M" V-spoke wheels in the staggered
sizes currently with Bridgestone Potenza S-03 tires.

My Opinions:

Acceleration.
The 330i is quite quick, accelerates smoothly off the line.  The
powerband seems to be firly linear from 2000 rpm with a noticeable bump
at around 4000 RPM although it seems to run out of breath at around 6200
rpmish.  Torque seems strong throughout the rev range. The M3 is
noticably quicker.  It is fast from around 2000 rpm and up but when it
hits 4000 rpm - it takes off and hits redline very rapidly pulling
strong the entire way.  Torque doesn't seem as strong with this car, it
doesn't seem to have the same "grunt" below 4000rpm.

Braking seems the same for both cars, which is very good.

Handling.
The 330i is noticably heavier although it corners very flat and seems
stuck like glue to the ground with the S-03's.  The steering feels
lighter but not overboosted -- feedback is very good.  The car tramlines
like crazy on the heavily rutted sections of Chicago area roads. The M3
handles very crisply, turn in, feedback and steering are all excellent.
The car doesn't feel as heavy but of course, it isn't.  The Kumhos don't
feel as glue-like as the S-03s although they also start/stop/corner and
tramline very well.  The cars are very comparable handling wise.

Comfort.
The 330i has a slight edge.  It is a more modern car with more modern
amenities, feels more polished.  I highly recommend the sport seats,
they compare very well to the "Vaders" in my M3.  I love the Myrtle
wood, the Nav system, the Harmon Kardon stereo in the 330i.  The M3
feels more spartan, less refined but is still a very comfortable car to
drive.  

I don't know if I could choose one over the other.  I love both of my
cars, and I would say that they are both "the best car that I have
owned".  I sold a 97 Audi A4 1.8tq to buy my 330i, and sold a 1987
Porsche 928 S4 5Spd to get the M3, I consider both to be a step-up.

If I were you I would at least drive both and then decide for yourself.

Regards

Jamie Howton



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:52:38 -0500 (EST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list)
Subject: Re: [uuc] oil in intake manifold, M30 engine
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>From JSN
>
>Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>- several suggestions to check the PCV valve on the car; the M30 doesn't
>have one.
>
>Any other thoughts?
>

What about the oil baffle in the valve cover. It is supposed to keep the oil
from making it up the breather hose. Perhaps it is um, broken (not that I
have any idea how you could break this)?

Head over heating leading to more vaporized oil that condenses in the
intakes?

Martians?

-- Joe, reaching

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski                       Network Operations
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                        Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:16:48 -0800
From: "JSN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [uuc] oil in intake manifold, M30 engine
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

That's a good thought Joe.  If that was the case, I would expect to find oil
on the throttle plate and in the plenum.  The vent connects to the intake
prior to the throttle body.  No oil on the plate or in the plenum - dry.
The oil is in the intake port and in the runners close to the port.

Car runs at the correct temperature.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "bmw list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [uuc] oil in intake manifold, M30 engine


> Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> From JSN
> >
> >Search the
ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >- several suggestions to check the PCV valve on the car; the M30 doesn't
> >have one.
> >
> >Any other thoughts?
> >
>
> What about the oil baffle in the valve cover. It is supposed to keep the
oil
> from making it up the breather hose. Perhaps it is um, broken (not that I
> have any idea how you could break this)?
>
> Head over heating leading to more vaporized oil that condenses in the
> intakes?
>
> Martians?
>
> -- Joe, reaching
>
> --
> Joseph M. Krzeszewski             Network Operations
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
>
> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:36:25 -0500
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Eurowerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: '95 slam
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Well gee guys, first I've heard of what a POS my '95 M3 is. Interesting. 
That grin I get every time I drive it, must be gas.

Sure, it has the usual problems ALL the early e36's had, but no more than the others, 
in fact, much less than my '93 325i did.

I have driven most models, and for the money, the E36 M3 is a great deal. I drove the 
new M5's and new E46M3's at the BMW performance driving school a couple of months ago, 
and while they are great cars, and have much more horsepower, it comes at what cost? 
Three times the price per horse? They are not THAT much more fun to drive. See me in 
about 6 years, I'll be ready for a E46M3 value.
And talk about repairs...how about those exploding E46M3 motors that BMWNA finally 
fessed up to?

But that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Go ahead and keep bad- mouthing 
them, that just means there will more of them available for me to buy cheap. :-)

Keep up the good work!

Rick
'95  Avus Blue M3 w/77k
'93 325i
1998 Z3 2.8


> From: "Eurowerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/12/03 Wed AM 10:23:46 EST
> To: "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Reference Only E36 95' Avus Blue M3 w/66K for $7250.00
> 
> Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> I've never wanted one either.  Never really saw the fascination.  Smoother
> than the 69' 1602 that I have, but not anywhere nearly as fast or handle as
> well.  The 95' was not the year to have anyway, first year glitches and
> problems.  I have had the head off of at least 20 95' models for faulty
> valve spring retainers.
> I would not sell a 95' model to ANY of my clients with a good conscience, no
> matter how good a deal.
> 
> Kirk A. Gilchrist
> EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair
> 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 888-522-0271 toll free
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eurowerks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: '95 slam
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Rick:

It is possible you're being over-sensitive.  All I
said was _I_ never wanted one and I even mentioned
that there would be many people on the list that would
thankfully take one at $7250+small profit for Kirk. 
How much more sensitive do I have to be before I bug
someone?  BTW, I think the M3 problems are minor.  My
not wanting one has nothing to do with such practical
issues.  It is not like we're talking about a Honda. 
There cars are supposed to appeal to our hearts first.

Reminds me of a George Bernard Shaw incident.  When
Pygmalion (My Fair Lady) was being staged in London, a
lady in the back got up and objected to the male
chauvinism in the play and ranted about how it should
not be staged at all.  Shaw was in the audience as
well.  He said, "Madam, I agree with you, but what can
we do, we're in the minority!"

I drive an old M5 (92), which is another oft-maligned
car.  Maintenance is too much, too heavy, not really
that powerful, crappy steering, crappy off-idle
in-traffic driving, you name it.  

It _increases_ my enjoyment of the car to know there
is yet another person who does not want it or finds it
hard to drive smoothly.  In fact, I was once told at a
dinner party that I drove a fake M5, having been
tricked by the PO and badge, as there were none before
the E39 M5.  I agreed with the fellow even as my then
fiancee tried to defend the car!  Left the person
who'd made the comment with a mild feeling of having
been the Fool.  Sooo amusing!  <grin>.

Neil Deshpande

P.S. It _could_ be the gas.  Have a Honda-driving
M3-immune friend sniff around for you.  :-).

***

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well gee guys, first I've heard of what a POS my '95
M3 is. Interesting.  That grin I get every time I
drive it, must be gas.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:37:11 -0500 (EST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: M vs E46 non-M
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I'm speaking as the owner of a modified E36 325i (H&R OE, Koni, B&B, BLSS) whose wife 
drives a
pretty stock  1997 E36 M3/4 (ECIS).  She traded into that car from a 330i steptronic 
(not sport
package).

I remember a lot of nebraska being relatively flat with relatively straight roads.  If 
you're going
to be cruising on highways at 80-90 (I'd suppose that 80-90 is pretty common in NE), 
an E46 330 will
be more quiet and comfortable. I don't know that you'd want to go back to a 2.5, 
though I'm happy
with mine.  If you're not an acceleration hound, it may do the trick, though I think 
that the 330s
aren't selling for THAT much more vs the power, which is nice to have.    

If you live in an area where you're going to do a fair amount of spirited driving with 
a lot of
cornering, the M3 will feel tighter (though I haven't driven an E46 sport package), 
but particularly
with the different diff in the later model cars, my wife's E36 feels a bit louder and 
busy at the
highway speeds you're probably going to see.  She's already lobbying for an X5 
replacement, as I
think that the M3 is a little harsher than she likes for longer trips (I kind of 
agree, given a
choice).

4 doors are nice to have on a daily basis. That puts you into an older E36 97,98 that 
may have aging
rubber and plastic issues.

HTH,

Marc Plante
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:33:08 -0500
From: "Robert Jackowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reference Only E36 95' Avus Blue M3 w/66K for $7250.00
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Actually, many agree that the late 1995 model year production were the best.
BMW fixed the valve-spring retainer issue in August 1995, I think.
The OBD1 3.0 liter engines were the most tunable with their larger intake
rails. I believe 300+hp can be achieved with cams, intake and chip without the need 
for any forced induction.
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Eurowerks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:24 AM
To: Neil Deshpande; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [UUC] Reference Only E36 95' Avus Blue M3 w/66K for
$7250.00


Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]


I've never wanted one either.  Never really saw the fascination.  Smoother
than the 69' 1602 that I have, but not anywhere nearly as fast or handle as
well.  The 95' was not the year to have anyway, first year glitches and
problems.  I have had the head off of at least 20 95' models for faulty
valve spring retainers.
I would not sell a 95' model to ANY of my clients with a good conscience, no
matter how good a deal.

Kirk A. Gilchrist
EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair
8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 888-522-0271 toll free


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:47:30 -0500
From: "Michael Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Gary Vetick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   "UUC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3 and non-M3)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hi Gary,

I would look at a 2001 or 2002 330i or 330xi (all wheel drive).  I own a
330xi and it is fantastic.  In winter with snows on it is fun fun fun and
in the summer it is a great handling car with all of the safety features
you're looking for.  It has 225 horses - almost the same as the E36 M3 -
and plenty of torque.  Check one out!!

-Mike

97 M3 IP #121
01 330xi

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Vetick
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [UUC] [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs E46 (M3
and non-M3)


Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]


digest members:

i'm comtemplating the purchase of another pre-owned vehicle and am seeking
informed opinions about the relative merits/desirability of an E36 M3 vs an
E46 either M3 or non-M3.

first the background information:

* the car will be a daily driver and will not be stored in winters (there's
already an E30 M3 in storage)
* the car will be driven approximately 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year with
40% being local and 60% being long-distance trips to client locations.
* i assume i could purchase a very nice, late model, low mileage E36 M3 for
$20,000 to $25,000.  it would include all the available safety equipment
available in 1998 and 1999 (i.e. front and side impact airbags).
* i assume i could purchase a very nice 2001 or 2002 E46 M3 for $38,000 to
$45,000.  it would include the same safety equipment as above, plus the
head
protection system.
* i would feel much better about driving a $25,000 vehicle in the snow and
salt than i would about a $45,000 vehicle.
* 333 hp is more than i need.

so my questions come down to:

* is the E46 M3 80% better than the E36 M3 and does it therefore justify
the
additional cost?
* is it better to stay away from the earlier generation of electronics in
the E36 and go with the E46?
* if the E46 M3 is more car than i need, could i find happiness with the
E46
325 or 330?

any input is greatly appreciated.

gary vetick
omaha, nebraska

__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.

UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:22:28 -0600
From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Gary Vetick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions E36 M3 vs
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Unless you just want the status of an M car, sounds like the E46 non-M
would be the right car for you.

I just sold my 2201 330i a few weeks ago, it would have been perfect for
you :-)  Low miles, loaded, and I even included 4 Guardex snows on spare
alloy rims. I got $28.5k for the car (xenon, manual, sports, premium, cd).

I faced sort of the same situation back when I got the 330i. I was looking
at used M3/4 VS a new 330i. As was mentioned, the 225hp of the 330i is close
to M3 numbers (less torque though). In the end, I decided the nicer looks
(my option) of the new E46 plus the extra room, head airbags, DSC (VS plain
traction control), free maintenance and warranty. I am not sorry I made
the choice I did.

I don't know about the DSC in an E46 being too sensitive to drive the car
in the snow - that makes no sense to me. Mine did super - and with the
Guardex snows I was the kind of the snow :-)  The DSC (skid control) saved
my bacon once on black ice on the summer tread OEM tires too. MUCH, MUCH
better than plain old traction control.

I loved my 330i - I think (still do) it is the best looking sedan on the
road.  I would have kept it except financial conditions enabled me to get
a E39 M5 - a dream I have had for many years.

A 225hp 330i with sports/premium/xenon would make you a nice car. You could
easily find a car with warranty left or get a CPO car to take it to 100k
miles. Nothing wrong with an M3 - I would love to have one (too), but I liked
having the larger car with updated features - and you are right the E36 M3s
are lot more money.

Dennis
M5 silver/black

At 11:58 AM 12/03/2003 -0600, Gary Vetick wrote:
>Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>digest members:
>
>i'm comtemplating the purchase of another pre-owned vehicle and am seeking
>informed opinions about the relative merits/desirability of an E36 M3 vs an
>E46 either M3 or non-M3.
>
>first the background information:
>
>* the car will be a daily driver and will not be stored in winters (there's
>already an E30 M3 in storage)
>* the car will be driven approximately 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year with
>40% being local and 60% being long-distance trips to client locations.
>* i assume i could purchase a very nice, late model, low mileage E36 M3 for
>$20,000 to $25,000.  it would include all the available safety equipment
>available in 1998 and 1999 (i.e. front and side impact airbags).
>* i assume i could purchase a very nice 2001 or 2002 E46 M3 for $38,000 to
>$45,000.  it would include the same safety equipment as above, plus the head
>protection system.
>* i would feel much better about driving a $25,000 vehicle in the snow and
>salt than i would about a $45,000 vehicle.
>* 333 hp is more than i need.
>
>so my questions come down to:
>
>* is the E46 M3 80% better than the E36 M3 and does it therefore justify the
>additional cost?
>* is it better to stay away from the earlier generation of electronics in
>the E36 and go with the E46?
>* if the E46 M3 is more car than i need, could i find happiness with the E46
>325 or 330?
>
>any input is greatly appreciated.
>
>gary vetick
>omaha, nebraska
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
>In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
>
>UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
>Short Shifter - accept no substitutes!
>908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:41:45 -0500
From: "Donald McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: E28 Heater Core ??
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Well I've been dealing with a foggy windshield for the last several 
years in my '85 535i. This morning the situation got a little worse  
when steam began emerging from the defogging (humph) vents.

Checking through several FAQs I have not found any information 
on digging through an E28 console to get at the heater core. Does 
anybody have a description of this process?

Most of the steam seems to be coming up on the passenger side.
Does anyone know what I'm going to find when this is opened up?
Is it most likely that the heater core needs to be replaced or could
it just be an interior hose?

Don McMahon, Okemos, MI
'85 535i, '86 535i, '75 3.0Si
(I need a new car)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:04:47 +0200
From: "Andrew Thonas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (added by [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

"i'm comtemplating the purchase of another pre-owned vehicle and am seeking informed 
opinions about the relative merits/desirability of an E36 M3 vs an E46 either M3 or 
non-M3."

The youngest E36 M3 will be getting on for five years old now.  Notwithstanding the 
problems the E46 M3 engine had in its early days, that's probably not the best 
ingredient for a trouble-free motoring experience.  That said, the problems typically 
experienced with the relatively straightforward electronics of the E36 will probably 
pale in comparison to those likely to plague a multiple-bus E46 in a few years' time.  
So I'd recommend, unless you're up for a labour of love, that you buy the youngest car 
you can afford.

You made a point about not storing the car for winter.  I think the risks in using 
modern passenger cars all year round are exaggerated.  Factory-spec BMWs are built to 
last summers and winters, and the only meaningful longevity likely to be gained in 
garaging a car for the winter will be that relating to one's overdraft.  By all means 
store it if weather conditions mean it is practically unusable, but any benefit impact 
in doing so for the sake of longer life will probably only be noticed when the car is 
in its teens or twenties.

Andy T




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:03:56 -0500
From: "Chris Pawlowicz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Andrew Thonas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [E36 and E46] Seeking informed opinions
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Andrew says
> You made a point about not storing the car for winter.  I think the risks
in using modern passenger cars all year round
>are exaggerated.  Factory-spec BMWs are built to last summers and winters,
and the only meaningful longevity likely
>to be gained in garaging a car for the winter will be that relating to
one's overdraft.  By all means store it if weather
>conditions mean it is practically unusable, but any benefit impact in doing
so for the sake of longer life will probably
>only be noticed when the car is in its teens or twenties.

except for the fact that lots of places dump tons and tons of salt on the
roads.. and as good as modern cars are, 5 year old ones used all winter
often need new fenders.. new rockers.. 10 year old ones need new floorpans..
plus other body repair (inside wheel wells, trunk lid and rear license plate
area, gas filler area)

also, when you lower a car or buy one already pretty low, you do have to
worry about front air dam damage and getting high-centred on snowdrifts

BMWs are pretty poor quality-wise when it comes to electronics.. winter salt
and slush work it's way into lots of connectors wreaking havoc on many
systems - and the newer the car, the more electronic gizmos.

Around here (eastern Canada), E36 models are all starting to show their age
big time with failed electronics and rust.. storing the car in the winter
makes a huge difference in longevity!

On the other hand, BMWs handle so well, the heated mirrors/seats/washers
make winter life so much nicer, and *every* corner can reward you with tail
out fun ;)

Chris Pawlowicz
'89 325i - daily driver all year long
'99 Z3 2.8 stored for the winter


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