Hey Herman! > On May 1, 2023, at 19:23, Herman Dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sounds like a good deal to me. I have one of the original BII's still running > part time. > > Herman > > > On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:25 PM peter riess <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it comes > with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and at $600, > maybe worth the future trouble? > > >> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything that >> can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor to blame >> for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period of >> reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. >> >> b >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Ben, >>> >>> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding >>> expensive at that rate. >>> >>> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are spending >>> on annual maintenance? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Peter >>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> A bunch of great advice here. >>>> >>>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to have >>>> the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d never go >>>> back. >>>> >>>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also adjust >>>> the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around 1.45 bar if >>>> memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. stock settings. >>>> >>>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional >>>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a >>>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso >>>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll find >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to >>>> temp (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case with >>>> all E61’s). >>>> >>>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group and >>>> the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my machine >>>> every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went with the ECM >>>> instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The ECM likes to eat >>>> vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube that goes from the >>>> vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, keeps the steam >>>> condensation out of the housing). That tubing rots regularly also. I’ve >>>> done one element, very easy replacement method. >>>> >>>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid sealant. >>>> Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a heating >>>> element from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory >>>> sealant—definitely need a friend with an impact hammer and a way to clamp >>>> the boiler in a vise without bending it. With teflon tape, the >>>> remove/replace is worlds easier. >>>> >>>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump was >>>> a regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work other than >>>> setting the pressure when I installed it. >>>> >>>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour under >>>> pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice. >>>> >>>> Best of luck, keep us posted! >>>> b >>>> >>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a part >>>>> time tub repair job! >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point where it >>>>> feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. >>>>> >>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a few >>>>>> months until I was able to plumb it in. No issues there. When I did >>>>>> plumb it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the machine >>>>>> so I had to add a pressure regulator upstream from it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this >>>>>> machine. In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced several >>>>>> parts including a control board, a heating element, a sensor, and for >>>>>> whatever reason I am averaging going through about two pressurestat per >>>>>> year (I buy them in bulk now). If you enjoy learning about these >>>>>> machines and don't mind working on them, then go for it, but if you >>>>>> don't, then steer clear. On the upside, this group is extremely >>>>>> helpful as has been Whole Latte Love tech support. >>>>>> >>>>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler >>>>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just stick >>>>>> a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary pump needs a >>>>>> minimum water pressure to function, but I could be wrong there. >>>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. I’m >>>>>> currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a huge time >>>>>> suck as well.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of good >>>>>> H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and figuring >>>>>> out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal (heating >>>>>>> elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd be right there >>>>>>> with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a leaking machine at >>>>>>> $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. The plumbed rotary IV >>>>>>> version is quite a nice machine. My biggest gripe (which is a common >>>>>>> one) is the lack of steam power, but there are ways to improve that >>>>>>> with different tips/wands. I chose a higher-wattage steam element, and >>>>>>> if the elements are due for replacement anyway, this is an option (but >>>>>>> not a trivial option, as it does involve replacing wiring that's not >>>>>>> intended for higher current). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask is >>>>>>> $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more than >>>>>>> $600-700. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of the >>>>>>> line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts are >>>>>>> harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>>>>>> <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey there Peter, >>>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what >>>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair parts, >>>>>>>> and as Pitcher said how handy are you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer in >>>>>>>> service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very similar). At >>>>>>>> 8 years, you are definitely into the phase where you will be replacing >>>>>>>> things and I feel that’s to be expected. As to the lack of descaling, >>>>>>>> that may or may not be an issue—where I live, I rarely descaled my >>>>>>>> brewtus and didn’t have any buildup to mention. Definitely not the >>>>>>>> case in all areas. As an aside, I’ve been using the BWT system (WLL >>>>>>>> carries it) for maybe 6 years now and it is money well spent. No more >>>>>>>> descaling is their claim, it’s been true for me (I live in a different >>>>>>>> area now than I did with the B2 that didn’t scale, harder water here). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need >>>>>>>> replacing relatively soon: >>>>>>>> —both boiler elements >>>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers >>>>>>>> —pressurestat >>>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger >>>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to the >>>>>>>> hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut >>>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group >>>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a >>>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I have a >>>>>>>> bag of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one or more). >>>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Less likely but possible: >>>>>>>> —PID >>>>>>>> —Giemme control box >>>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler >>>>>>>> —seals for the wands >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re >>>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), I’d >>>>>>>> say go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, and since >>>>>>>> you’ll be doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s good knowledge >>>>>>>> to have. Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and use it, fix the leak, >>>>>>>> and then be pleasantly surprised (and money ahead) for the time that >>>>>>>> you don’t need to do the things I mentioned above. ;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that is >>>>>>>> not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine ever, >>>>>>>> unless a line blew or something like that. You should be able to chase >>>>>>>> that down and fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! Water under the >>>>>>>> machine is one of those things that drains my energy fast—just annoys >>>>>>>> the crap out of me I guess! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It works >>>>>>>> great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to get things >>>>>>>> aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have always used >>>>>>>> yellow teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste over the tape >>>>>>>> if you wish) and have never had a leak that I can recall. Just might >>>>>>>> save you a little headache/heartburn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming >>>>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for the >>>>>>>>> states. My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over the last 8 >>>>>>>>> yrs... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine is 15 >>>>>>>>>> years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have to see >>>>>>>>>> where it is dripping from to give you a better idea. There are some >>>>>>>>>> things to consider if you are going to purchase. How handy are you? >>>>>>>>>> Some things I would recommend doing to your machine to make it more >>>>>>>>>> hardy. Is the machine for the States or Overseas? The machine was >>>>>>>>>> built for 220 v 10 amps. The States where I live are 120 v 20 amps. >>>>>>>>>> The extra amps over time has caused some problems. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <[email protected] <>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur apparently >>>>>>>>>> it drips a small amount of discolored water as it warms up. Collects >>>>>>>>>> on counter under machine. She's never descaled it for the 8+/- yrs >>>>>>>>>> she's owned it. I am not sure about her water quality but she has it >>>>>>>>>> on a filter. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag?? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> "Pitcher" >>>>>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <> >>>>>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <tel:(225)%20408-9041> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/3508BEAD-4CA1-4958-A4B5-BFACB47BFF7C%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/brewtus/AdQF0ugls1E/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/brewtus/AdQF0ugls1E/unsubscribe>. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/EBEAEE7C-6F5D-4F15-A2C3-93AE97345AAA%40me.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/EBEAEE7C-6F5D-4F15-A2C3-93AE97345AAA%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> 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protected]>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/85DA36D5-92D6-4053-9AC8-CDACD7B9C699%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/85DA36D5-92D6-4053-9AC8-CDACD7B9C699%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/6A80D0E1-9474-4704-B23A-2C96C491CF4E%40me.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/6A80D0E1-9474-4704-B23A-2C96C491CF4E%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 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