<< Tom, what are you trying to accomplish here? If you are trying to polarise the Israel/Palestine debate, you are doing an excellent job. Calling anyone who shows even a hint of criticism of Israel "a fucking Nazi" does not exactly contribute to an increase in mutual understanding.>>
Criticism is one thing. I am myself critical of some of Israel's policies. But there is criticism for the sake of trying to make things better and criticism of every single little thing Israel does, no matter the circumstances or provocations without the tiniest effort to be evenhanded or understanding. <<I most certainly do not. I do not believe *anyone* should be persecuted and killed for their religious beliefs.>> The people you support do, certainly a large percentage of them. The terrorists object not to Israel's policies but to its very existence. They want to kill as many Jews as they can. <<Sigh. Not this again. Note that I criticize Israel's politics, not its religion. Anti-Semitism means hating Jews; I do not hate Jews (why should I?), I disagree with Israel's politics. You might consider that "being anti-Israel", but it does not equal anti-Semitism.>> I think it does. You never have a decent word to say about Israel, not one. In your eyes, nothing Israel does is good and nothing its opponents do is bad. You ignore arguments in favor of Israel, not even bothering to answer them. When we try to point out the difference between targeting murderers (as Israel does) and targeting civilians (as the Palestinian extremists do) you pretend we haven't spoken. From where I'm sitting, that makes you a person determined to undermine Israel's right to exist, not just critical of its policies. In my eyes, that makes you anti-Semitic. You say you don't hate Jews, but you sure talk like you do. Maybe you don't want anyone killed, but you're not doing a damn thing to stop it from happening. <<If someone is critical of America's politics, does that make a person anti-American? I can choose any government in this world, and find something about their politics I disagree with. Does that mean I am anti-everyone?>> Let me hear you criticize the Arab governments then, which you never do. Israel is fighting for its very existence. You never acknowledge that. Israel kills terrorists who have committed murders; the Palestinian terrorists intentionally kill as many civilians as they can. You never acknowledge that either. I'm sorry, I don't like flaming anyone (notice, I cut your name out of the tops of my replies). I believe in vigorous, even rancorous debate, and people can believe what they want. But when they deliberately conceal or muddy the truth, and when they attack me (essentially; I'm not a particularly religious Jew, but that wouldn't have stopped Hitler from gassing me, and it wouldn't stop these Islamic fanatics from trying to kill me if they had a chance), I fight back. At the very least, you should have the decency to recognize and admit that Israel is at war with these terrorists; what Israel does is not happening in a vacuum, and if terrorists weren't murdering helpless civilians in the centers of cities, Israelis might not be so fucking scared and shitting their pants that they could be next that they might not be so harsh on the occupied territories. It's funny, everyone always screams at Israel to trade land for peace. Nobody ever screams at the fucking Arab governments to trade peace for land. It's always Israel's fault. There's criticism and there's hatred. I think you're a lot closer to the latter than to the former. You don't have to prove I'm wrong; I'm nothing to you and vice-versa. Ignore me if you want. But every time you say something in public that I think is wrong and unfair and loathesome, I'm going to call you on it. Tom Beck "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I didn't realize I'd also see the last." - Jerry Pournelle
