Michael Dinowitz
The rules need to be changed.
:-) !
Remember when AOL got sued for displaying some content and they won the lawsuit by
saying that like a phone company
they just transmit the content, not provide it or censor it? So why can't this list be
the same way - we are each
responsible for our own posts and HofF doesn't censor any posts...
- Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
"Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
> Wow, I never intended to offend anyone. I was following the discussion and
> thought it took a turn when Angil discussed how much was actually charged. I
> personally do not believe that this constitutes price fixing, and I'm sure
> the Fed does not care what happens on this list.
>
> However, regardless of whether or not you folks think you are legally within
> bounds to have this discussion (are any of you actually lawyers?), there are
> rules on this list, and discussing pricing definitely violates those rules.
>
> If you think the rules need to be changed, then I would recommend that you
> contact Michael Dinowitz.
>
> Benjamin S. Rogers
> Web Developer, c4.net
> Voice: (508) 240-0051
> Fax: (508) 240-0057
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:39 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
>
> <CF_Rant>
> I have read the link, the HTML writer Guide page on not discussing pricing
> and the USDOJ info on anti-trust...
> ..... and I have to say that I think this "don't ever discuss prices on the
> CF-Communuity List" is a bunch of crap. I
> realize this is Michael Dinowitz's list to do with as he may, but I didn't
> see any attempt to set prices or to ask
> what price to charge so as to avoid competition in these posts....
>
> There was a discussion of how to approach some work and the pitfall to
> avoid. This is different from person A says
> what do you charge for a job so I will know not to bid less. Unless someone
> things there is a huge CF Community
> conspiracy to keep prices up my personal view is chill.
> </CF_Rant>
>
> I just had to get that off my chest. Back to your normal programming now.
> :-)
> - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
>
> "Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
>
> > You really should not discuss pricing in a public list such as this. It
> > opens certain individuals and organizations such as the list moderator and
> > hosting provider to legal repercussions.
> >
> > For these and many other reasons, discussions of pricing between
> competitors
> > in public forums is generally frowned upon. In most scenarios, the persons
> > discussing pricing are removed from the list.
> >
> > For more information:
> >
> > http://www.houseoffusion.com/hof/lists/faq.htm#1
> >
> > Benjamin S. Rogers
> > Web Developer, c4.net
> > Voice: (508) 240-0051
> > Fax: (508) 240-0057
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Angil Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:34 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: Charging for Installation
> >
> > 0_0
> >
> > I just had the meeting.
> > I knew that damned woman was smiling too much..
> > and here I was thinking it was my new spiffy haircut
> >
> > I..umm..oh geez.
> >
> > I went with a flat rate of 1000 to cover the entire installation and
> > bringing the program to the point at which it was functioning on the
> remote
> > staging server(some variables in app_global.cfm would need changing etc.),
> > including setting up CF professional w service packs and this sybase
> stuff.
> >
> > Arrrgh! And there are few to no CF Developers in Trinidad..I could have
> > probably named my own price!
> > I...didn't consider what would happen in terms of time and cost if it all
> > went tragicly wrong..
> >
> > :-\
> > stupid stupid inexperienced me.
> > .....
> > .....
> > *holds himself*
> > I feel so...used.
> > 0_0
> > *shivers*
> >
> > -Gel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2001 01:05
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
> >
> > If you haven't installed SQL-anywhere before are you including installing
> > that and installing a *working* ODBC
> > driver for it? This alone could take anywhere from 2 hours to 20 hours if
> > you have problems!! Plus the default ODBC
> > driver may be buggy requiring purchasing a 3rd party one... who will pay
> for
> > that?
> >
> > Again you need to confirm that if you get the app to do the same as it
> does
> > on the staging server you are done.
> >
> > Also given the level of service from the other company what if they forget
> a
> > file you need - will you be waiting
> > around weeks to get it and to get paid?
> >
> > Good luck - if you do this job I am sure you will gain a lot of
> experience!
> > :-)
> >
> > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> >
> > Angil Stewart wrote:
> >
> > > Hell no..I've never done anything with Sybase SQL Anywhere. I'm hoping
> > that
> > > its a simple task of setting up an ODBC datasource.
> > >
> > > The previous developer seems to have produced a decent application from
> > what
> > > I can see, but it took them 10 months and 30,000 dollars to do it. BUt
> it
> > > uses some very nice layout, for the code..with every query and piece of
> > > logic in a neat, seperate file so the main file is just a series of
> > > CFINcludes...nice use of Session variables, it even builds threads and
> > sets
> > > up users for a message board system when necessary...really neat.
> > >
> > > Buuuut apparently the client was extremely dissatisfied with their level
> > of
> > > service.
> > > They want to pull the application from the former developers servers
> where
> > > it was hosted, and do everything themselves...which is where I come in.
> > >
> > > I suppose charging for a days work at US100.00 * 8 =US800.00 should
> cover
> > it
> > > all.
> > > I'll tell them the cost covers set up and getting the program up and
> > > running, no modifications.
> > > And when we have it up...work a cost on future modifications etc.
> > >
> > > That sounds like the best plan..right? :)
> > >
> > > I hate arranging pricing and cost.
> > > *sigh*
> > > -Gel
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >
> > > Have you installed this set up before - especially the database? How
> long
> > > did it take?
> > > Why is the original firm not doing this - did the client and them have a
> > > disagreement?
> > > The phase "a little modification" is danagerous - what if the client now
> > > expects you to fix all bugs until the app
> > > works!! Can they show you the app working correctly on a staging server
> > > first? :-)
> > >
> > > Bottom line ... You need a clearer scope of work or just bill hourly.
> > >
> > > FYI On straightforward installs we usually figure a day to iron out all
> > > problems. This is where we have written the
> > > code. On someone else's code who knows what will need "adjusting"?
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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