Actually, several ISPs from around the country were fined $50,000+ and had
their news servers confiscated because child pornography could be downloaded
through their servers (as it can through any "full" news feed):
http://yahoo.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-334825.html
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/feb/feb16c_01.html
The lawyers focused on news because, the way news works, a copy of the
content actually exists on the ISP's server before it is redistributed to
the client. This is not entirely unlike a mailing list. Web pages are
different since they are transmitted directly to the requesting client. This
would be more inline with the ISP as Telco argument.
It went to court and the ISPs lost. That is not to say it can't be appealed
at the Supreme Court, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear as any of the
ISPs in question have enough funding to take it that far. In any case, the
laws that pertain to the Internet are not set in stone. Therefore, it is
better to be safe than sorry.
Benjamin S. Rogers
Web Developer, c4.net
Voice: (508) 240-0051
Fax: (508) 240-0057
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:44 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
Michael Dinowitz
The rules need to be changed.
:-) !
Remember when AOL got sued for displaying some content and they won the
lawsuit by saying that like a phone company
they just transmit the content, not provide it or censor it? So why can't
this list be the same way - we are each
responsible for our own posts and HofF doesn't censor any posts...
- Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
"Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
> Wow, I never intended to offend anyone. I was following the discussion and
> thought it took a turn when Angil discussed how much was actually charged.
I
> personally do not believe that this constitutes price fixing, and I'm sure
> the Fed does not care what happens on this list.
>
> However, regardless of whether or not you folks think you are legally
within
> bounds to have this discussion (are any of you actually lawyers?), there
are
> rules on this list, and discussing pricing definitely violates those
rules.
>
> If you think the rules need to be changed, then I would recommend that you
> contact Michael Dinowitz.
>
> Benjamin S. Rogers
> Web Developer, c4.net
> Voice: (508) 240-0051
> Fax: (508) 240-0057
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:39 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
>
> <CF_Rant>
> I have read the link, the HTML writer Guide page on not discussing pricing
> and the USDOJ info on anti-trust...
> ..... and I have to say that I think this "don't ever discuss prices on
the
> CF-Communuity List" is a bunch of crap. I
> realize this is Michael Dinowitz's list to do with as he may, but I didn't
> see any attempt to set prices or to ask
> what price to charge so as to avoid competition in these posts....
>
> There was a discussion of how to approach some work and the pitfall to
> avoid. This is different from person A says
> what do you charge for a job so I will know not to bid less. Unless
someone
> things there is a huge CF Community
> conspiracy to keep prices up my personal view is chill.
> </CF_Rant>
>
> I just had to get that off my chest. Back to your normal programming now.
> :-)
> - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
>
> "Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
>
> > You really should not discuss pricing in a public list such as this. It
> > opens certain individuals and organizations such as the list moderator
and
> > hosting provider to legal repercussions.
> >
> > For these and many other reasons, discussions of pricing between
> competitors
> > in public forums is generally frowned upon. In most scenarios, the
persons
> > discussing pricing are removed from the list.
> >
> > For more information:
> >
> > http://www.houseoffusion.com/hof/lists/faq.htm#1
> >
> > Benjamin S. Rogers
> > Web Developer, c4.net
> > Voice: (508) 240-0051
> > Fax: (508) 240-0057
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Angil Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:34 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: Charging for Installation
> >
> > 0_0
> >
> > I just had the meeting.
> > I knew that damned woman was smiling too much..
> > and here I was thinking it was my new spiffy haircut
> >
> > I..umm..oh geez.
> >
> > I went with a flat rate of 1000 to cover the entire installation and
> > bringing the program to the point at which it was functioning on the
> remote
> > staging server(some variables in app_global.cfm would need changing
etc.),
> > including setting up CF professional w service packs and this sybase
> stuff.
> >
> > Arrrgh! And there are few to no CF Developers in Trinidad..I could have
> > probably named my own price!
> > I...didn't consider what would happen in terms of time and cost if it
all
> > went tragicly wrong..
> >
> > :-\
> > stupid stupid inexperienced me.
> > .....
> > .....
> > *holds himself*
> > I feel so...used.
> > 0_0
> > *shivers*
> >
> > -Gel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2001 01:05
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: Charging for Installation
> >
> > If you haven't installed SQL-anywhere before are you including
installing
> > that and installing a *working* ODBC
> > driver for it? This alone could take anywhere from 2 hours to 20 hours
if
> > you have problems!! Plus the default ODBC
> > driver may be buggy requiring purchasing a 3rd party one... who will pay
> for
> > that?
> >
> > Again you need to confirm that if you get the app to do the same as it
> does
> > on the staging server you are done.
> >
> > Also given the level of service from the other company what if they
forget
> a
> > file you need - will you be waiting
> > around weeks to get it and to get paid?
> >
> > Good luck - if you do this job I am sure you will gain a lot of
> experience!
> > :-)
> >
> > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> >
> > Angil Stewart wrote:
> >
> > > Hell no..I've never done anything with Sybase SQL Anywhere. I'm hoping
> > that
> > > its a simple task of setting up an ODBC datasource.
> > >
> > > The previous developer seems to have produced a decent application
from
> > what
> > > I can see, but it took them 10 months and 30,000 dollars to do it. BUt
> it
> > > uses some very nice layout, for the code..with every query and piece
of
> > > logic in a neat, seperate file so the main file is just a series of
> > > CFINcludes...nice use of Session variables, it even builds threads and
> > sets
> > > up users for a message board system when necessary...really neat.
> > >
> > > Buuuut apparently the client was extremely dissatisfied with their
level
> > of
> > > service.
> > > They want to pull the application from the former developers servers
> where
> > > it was hosted, and do everything themselves...which is where I come
in.
> > >
> > > I suppose charging for a days work at US100.00 * 8 =US800.00 should
> cover
> > it
> > > all.
> > > I'll tell them the cost covers set up and getting the program up and
> > > running, no modifications.
> > > And when we have it up...work a cost on future modifications etc.
> > >
> > > That sounds like the best plan..right? :)
> > >
> > > I hate arranging pricing and cost.
> > > *sigh*
> > > -Gel
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >
> > > Have you installed this set up before - especially the database? How
> long
> > > did it take?
> > > Why is the original firm not doing this - did the client and them have
a
> > > disagreement?
> > > The phase "a little modification" is danagerous - what if the client
now
> > > expects you to fix all bugs until the app
> > > works!! Can they show you the app working correctly on a staging
server
> > > first? :-)
> > >
> > > Bottom line ... You need a clearer scope of work or just bill hourly.
> > >
> > > FYI On straightforward installs we usually figure a day to iron out
all
> > > problems. This is where we have written the
> > > code. On someone else's code who knows what will need "adjusting"?
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > - Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
