VERY well said!!!
Jay Patton
Web Design / Application Design
Web Pro USA
p. 406.549.3337 ext. 203
p. 1.888.5WEBPRO ext. 203
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
url. www.webpro-usa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree
> Yeah, to add fuel to the rant fire, I completely agree, My math skills are
> somewhere below abysmal. Heck that's why Texas Instruments is doing so
well,
> CALCULATORS! :-)
>
> I dropped out of school after a year, due in large part to my failing
> Combinatorics, and Boolean Algebra!! Hello, I've been a developer for 7
> years now and have never sat and thought, "damn I wish I had passed that
> Combinatorics class, this would be so much easier." I left school pretty
> disgusted with the whole thing, I think (in my limited experience) that
> schools put more math into CS than they do business and logic. Both of
which
> I think have value above math.
>
> I still chuckle when I see postings that require a CS degree, I've
> interviewed quite a few people that have come straight out of school and
> have no practical application experience, very very funny. I'm not dissing
> schools or CS degrees, but the false idea that you'll land a bitchin job
> right out of school without any actual experience is realized only by a
> small percentage. Everyone else takes Junior developer jobs or worse yet
> can't even get into the industry. So I think it's a good fit for the
> companies that blindly hire based on having a piece of parchment.
>
> Not too long ago I was turned down for a gig and it appears that the
> decision was largely based on my not having a degree, forget the fact that
I
> had more years of experience than everyone else on that team, and that
I've
> been doing this for so many years, I didn't go to a University so I was
> clearly a substandard developer..
>
> Ok now I'm done too, Ranting always makes me hungry. :-)
>
> J.
>
> John Wilker
> Web Applications Consultant
> Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
>
> www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
>
> The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite
the
> wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect.
> Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent
"kokou
> kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth."
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Patton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:06 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree
>
>
> .....Sorry in advance...
>
> Here Goes, (just a few questions)
>
> <agree>
> I totaly agree with you (Kevin) that "I think a CS degree would be
> inappropriate for most CF development work."
> </agree>
>
> <!!!rant!!!>
>
> One thing I've never understood though, is why do "they" (they being
schools
> or whoever sets up the requirements to obtain a CS degree) have to put so
> much math in with all of it. Yes i can see how it would help, however math
> was my VERY WORST of subjects in school. And i seem to get by perfectly
fine
> with programming. (Oddly enough i was VERY good in physics, don't ask me
> how) I did not go to college (mainly because i couldn't afford it) and yet
i
> still got a good job in web development. so why do so many companies
require
> such degrees? I find upsetting when you get turned down for another
> candidate that has a CS degree, but yet you have more experience. I have
> seen companies turn people away before even speaking with them just
because
> they don't have a degree of any sort. Some of the best programmers that i
> know never even went to college. One day they just picked up a book and
> started reading and applying what they learn from that. what honestly, is
> the difference from; going to school for 4 years wasting a lot of money,
or
> picking up a few books from Barnes and noble or the local university book
> store and learning on your own? a piece of paper that says HERE YOU HAVE
> COMPLETED YOUR CS DEGREE. I have learned more on my own in the last 6
> months than a friend of mine in Spokane, WA. has from Gonzaga University.
> and he is going for his CS Degree. By the time he is done i will have 5 -
6
> years of work experience and he will be stuck looking for one of those
entry
> level jobs because he wasted what time he could have used to learn more
(and
> probably faster), than sitting in class for 4 years to get that special
> piece of paper. Sorry i kind of strayed from my initial questions:
>
> </!!!rant!!!>
>
> Why do the have to put so much math in the course's?
> and
> Why do companies turn people away because they have no degree?
>
> That's it im done,
>
> Jay Patton
> Web Design / Application Design
> Web Pro USA
> p. 406.549.3337 ext. 203
> p. 1.888.5WEBPRO ext. 203
> e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> url. www.webpro-usa.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carlson, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:19 PM
> Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree
>
>
> > Actually, I think a CS degree would be inappropriate for most CF
> development
> > work. I have a business degree in Computer Information Systems, which I
> > believe is more valuable for developing the majority of web-based
> > applications. Here are some general impressions I recall among various
> > curriculums (when I was in college, anyway ...):
> >
> > CS: 3 calculus courses, 3 physics courses, compiler design theory
> >
> > CIS: C, COBOL, Algebra, Discrete Math, Public Speaking, Systems
Analysis,
> > Systems Design, Database design, Organizational behavior
> >
> > EE: Fortran
> >
> > Of course, there are many more differences, and things have certainly
> > changed somewhat since I was in college (although Hey! I'm not that old
> .....)
> > but my overall sense is this:
> >
> > CS is more geared to the embedded-logic crowd - CS folks often work with
> > Electrical Engineers on such projects. No systems analysis or design
> > classes required. In other words, not end-user oriented. I'm sure many
> CS
> > folks have such skills, but they weren't provided by the required
> > coursework.
> >
> > CIS is geared towards business application developers, who will probably
> > never need calculus to do their work. The ability to think in terms of
> > large-scale, interconnected applications is emphasized. Also emphasized
> is
> > the ability to work closely with users, usually across multiple groups,
> each
> > with their own agenda (sound familiar?)
> >
> > Overall, I think that anyone who actually enjoyed doing algebra story
> > problems has a good chance at becoming a good programmer/developer. For
> > many people, it's just overkill to get a CS degree, IMHO.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:53:39 -0700
> > > From: Jeffry Houser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: For those of you without a CS Degree
> > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > For those of you who are doing programming-type stuff without a CS
> > > degree. How did you learn programming logic? (Or did you?) I just
> can't
> > >
> > > imagine doing a good job without knowing what I know. I've seen so
much
> > > bad code.
> > >
> > > To everyone else, please watch your message quoting. It's getting
> hard
> > > to separate the new posts from the old posts in the digest. There is
no
> > > need to quote the last seventeen messages in a thread. Mabye it's
just
> > > me.
> > >
> > > |
> > > | -<erki>-
> > > |
> > >
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
