My comments inline beginning with *** and ending with ***
-----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 1:42 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: We are in big trouble <snip> > And like it or not, looking Arab these days means you can potentially come > under scrutiny. There are apparently thousands, if not millions, of Arabs > who want to do us harm. No amount of politically correct bullshit is going > to change that fact. So, if you're Arab, after 911, and you fit other > aspects of the terrorist profile (again, being Arab, alone, is not enough), > you are going to be stopped and questioned. That is only right and proper to > protect innocent lives. </snip> I objective to the institutionalisation of 'racial profiling'. This alienates groups and promotes racial divides rather than racial understanding. *** How much plainer do I need to be -- what I describe is NOT ... IT IS NOT .. IT IS NOT ... racial profiling. What I describe uses race as one VALID factor in determining suspects. Just as if we were looking for all blond men with scares on their checks. In a case as I describe, race is a descriptive factor, not a prejudicial factor. Get it? *** It validates the link between the words 'Arab' and 'Terrorist' which in turn makes it difficult for your average American to have a deeper understanding of what happened on Sept 11. *** This is just bullshit. You give Americans no credit for being intelligent *** Things are simplified into ignorant racial dichotomies which absolve local authorities from any blame for what happened on Sept 11. *** How are local authorities to blame? *** Where blame is wholly transformed into the basic understanding that dark skinned people look like 'Arab Terrorists'. *** Nobody is saying this at all. You're not paying attention. *** The discussion digresses into a simple and ignorant hatred of those 'Arab Terrorists' rather than 'Why were we attacked and by who specifically and how can we prevent it in the future?'. *** It certainly hasn't digressed that way in this case. Americans clearly understand the issues -- we were blatantly, without provocation attacked by a megalomaniac, using brainwashed puppets, simply because he and people of his ilk hate our way of life. Paint it in any shade of socialist, leftist anti-American propaganda (of which you are so found of), you like, but the basic essence boils down to just that. How can we prevent it in the future? We're already in the process of doing that -- or haven't you been following the news? *** People with non-white skin color and 'funny names' become evidence of potential terrorists. We are not moving forward with this kind of thinking. *** There may be some nut cases in this country who think that way, but it certainly isn't the policy of this country nor is it what the majority of Americans believe. So your concern is really misguided. *** Is it being politically correct to criticize the basic forming (validation) of a relationship between darker skin color and terrorism? *** Again, you are misreading the whole issue. The issue isn't a relationship between darker skin and terrorism, it is a bare essential fact that the majority of terrorists who wish to attack the American way of life, come from Saudi Arabia. You can't escape that fact and no amount of politically correct illogic is going to save you from that fact. *** So simple and powerful a message that it becomes the only understanding of the events. I would even suggest that 'radical profiling' is a form of terrorism as well - *** Yes, racial profiling is. But we're not talking about racial profiling. We're talking about terrorist profiling, were race is only but one factor to consider, and where to ignore race would be morally reprehensible and an ethical abrogation of a law enforcement officers duties *** however subtle and while not necessarily violent (although I don't think that would always be the case) shares some of the effects of terrorism. In your example you said that the Simi sheriff's deputies stopped every black male. They were able to do this because of the 'generally accepted' behavioural models set by their superiors and the media. *** Certainly set by the Sheriff, but where do you drag the media into this? I never mentioned the media. The fact is, if not for the local media, meaning my employer, this bit of racial profiling would never have come to light. It certainly hasn't been accepted by the media as the media in this case has editorialized against it. *** This is a trickle down effect. If you validate racial profiling from the very top of this order, it translates into an obvious (and sometimes violent) loss of human rights. *** who was validating the Simi deputies' conduct? Certainly not me. And if you think I did, you need to reread what I wrote. *** Sure a 'good police work' involves the collection of real evidence. Do you really believe that 'good police practice' is the norm in America? In these times? *** Yes I do. Do I believe that there are bad cops who do bad work? Yes I do. Do I believe bad cops are the norm. No I do not. *** Not even the American government presented a solid case to persecute those who perpetrated 9-11. *** The case as presented thus far is rock solid. How can an intelligent person say otherwise? Haven't you read the indictment against Moussoui (sp?)? There is certainly enough there to convict, and the investigation isn't even finished. *** Do you think your average town sheriff is going to bother themselves with justice when they are taught (by the highest, most influential institutions in the country) that the Arabs are the enemy and it's ok to detain them bases on skin color. *** Nobody, absolutely nobody -- and I defy you to prove otherwise -- in the government is teaching that Arabs are the enemy. *** Calling something politically correct is a means of over-simplifying an important issue. Consider the depth of the issue. *** I wish you would follow your own advice. *** H. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 7:33 AM Subject: RE: We are in big trouble > When you combine various investigative factors and evidence, whether it > includes race or not, it's not and no way can it be racial profiling. It's > good police work. > > If a black man robs a bank and escapes in a blue, late model Cadillac -- are > cops going to stop and question white women driving blue, late model > Cadillacs? Of course not. They are going to stop and question, if they see > them, black men driving blue, late model Cadillacs. And if you take away > the police power to do that, you are effectively inviting criminals to be > criminals. > > In Simi Valley, there were several bank robberies last year -- all > perpetrated by single black men. The Simi sheriff's deputies have been > stopping and questioning every single black man they see in Simi (blacks > make up only about 1 percent of the population in Simi). They adamantly deny > that they are engaging in racial profiling, but to me this is racial > profiling because the deputies have no other evidence to go on. If they > were able to supplement their vague knowledge with specific information and > then stopped only people who fit that profile, then they would be doing good > police work. > > And like it or not, looking Arab these days means you can potentially come > under scrutiny. There are apparently thousands, if not millions, of Arabs > who want to do us harm. No amount of politically correct bullshit is going > to change that fact. So, if you're Arab, after 911, and you fit other > aspects of the terrorist profile (again, being Arab, alone, is not enough), > you are going to be stopped and questioned. That is only right and proper to > protect innocent lives. > > H. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:44 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: We are in big trouble > > > You say racial profiling is wrong... even when their are other factors (such > as one way ticket etc) what you describe is still racial profiling.... the > others are other types of profiling.... buying a one way time for example is > ticket profiling.... flying alone is another form of profiling... > > So you saying its okay to profile racially so long as other forms of > profiling are included in the assessment. I think it's wrong altogether... > it make officials include race in their assessment of potential criminals > (for example... police officer: "... he looks like an Arab... should we > question him...") ... after a while, this becomes standard... then the > general perception that Arabs are criminals develops (although Hollywood > also already done a stirling job of forming that perception in the last 20 > years). > > Put yourself in their shoes... just imagine you are a successful middle > eastern male business man. Pre 9-11 you could mostly go where you pleased > without harassment, now post 9-11 you become everybody's posterboy for > terrorism, being stopped regularly at airports, having fellow passengers eye > you suspiciously, being delayed for 'security checks'... all because of the > color of your skin. Most white folks would say "just deal with it... it's > for everyone's safely ... no big deal..." but just imagine how that feels > for these people...to be a suspect because of the color of your skin. Hey... > maybe nothing has changed... they have been doing that to African Americans > for some time... only now the media has come up with a new (pc) buzz word > 'racial profiling'... sounds like 'collateral damage' or 'friendly fire' or > 'post traumatic stress disorder'. A word that is used to create a positive > response from the public to an activity that involves unjust treatment of > people. > > Once the middle class white American public accept 'racial profiling' as a > concept and condone the police employing it doesn't that take us towards a > more racist society rather than away from racism? It's judging people by the > color of their skin. Most people who say that racial profiling is acceptable > (even if combined with other forms of 'profiling') obviously haven't > experienced any kind of racism directed towards them). This is just another > form of institutional racism however innocent it may be dressed. > > Benjamin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:04 PM > Subject: RE: We are in big trouble > > > > OK, I'll weigh in now ... > > > > First, racial profiling is wrong. Racial profiling is the practice of > > detaining a person merely because of their race. > > > > It is not racial profiling, however, to detain, for example, an > Arab-looking > > guy who has bought a one-way ticket, paid cash, is flying first class, and > > is flying seemingly by himself. This fits a known pattern. > > > > In other words, there needs to be other evidence besides his race. > > > > As for the SS guy -- he was Arab looking, he was flying by himself in > first > > class. > > > > I can see some initial suspicion, but it's ludicrous that it went further > > than that and if I were him, I'd sue as well. > > > > -- > He carried a badge and other identification. > > > > -- > His ticket was clearly marked as paid for by the federal government > > > > -- > He provided a phone number to verify his credentials -- a number that > > the Airline never called. > > > > There is no sound reason for the pilot to behave belligerently and delay > the > > flight for 90 minutes. This matter should have been cleared up in five > > minutes tops. > > > > H. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
