It's funny, I never thought you and I would see eye to eye.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dinner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:26 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: France bans smoking in bars, cafes, nightclubs.
On Jan 3, 2008 1:26 PM, Cameron Childress <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dinner wrote:
> > It's not a total free for all, Cameron. I just want to be able to do
> > what I want, without *forcing* anyone do do anything.
> >
> > As much as possible.
> >
> > Others seem to think forcing stuff is the only way to get things done,
> > which I sorta abhor.
> >
>
> I do agree with you actually, I think that the line is in a different
> place for me about what constituted forcing someone to do something. In
> your view the government would be forcing people not to smoke. In my
> view, I am being forced to inhale other people's smoke. I know it's a
> difficult position to defend to say that I (and others, kids, employees,
> etc) am forced to inhale secondhand smoke since I could simply not enter
> the establishment, but that's not really practical if virtually every
> establishment in town allows smoking.
It is a difficult position to defend. Ask yourself why. Seems
analogous to people who want to control what other people can see on
TV. Too busy to watch their own kids, they want Someone Else to be
responsible.
It's not about convenience for you, it's about all of our rights. It
sounds sorta like you stand up for your rights, but other peoples,
well, don't matter as much.
"Not really practical if virtually every establishment in town allows
smoking"
You'd have to be in a pretty "backwards" (heh) town for that to be the
case. But even so; are you "one of those people" who thinks that
because you moved into a community that has values or whatever other
than your own, you have the right to change the community? Hey, lets
get a bunch of people from Cali to move here, so we can have what we
have there, here! It's only right, right? Screw what other people
like or dislike. Lets all be the same, and "correct". Yes, lets all
be the same. By law. That's what Law is for, right? Lets have a law
that requires at least one micky-D's in every town with a population
over 100. Then people will never feel like they're "away from home"
or that they "don't have options"-- wouldn't want them to have to
actually try the local fare.
Bah. I'm getting silly. Yeah, I "generally" care about liberty too.
Look, the government isn't FORCING you to enter a smoking establishment.
They are FORCING smoking establishments out of existence, right? Your
"right" as a non-smoker, to not visit places with smoke, wasn't
enough? Now you want to take my right to choose away from me?
Seems like you don't want people to have options. Your viewpoint is
the Good one, obviously, and the Government needs to get involved,
because it's fun to spend our tax money to limit other's freedoms,
right? Screw the cool stuff, lets get the government involved in our
bars, dance halls, and various venues, even more than they already
are.
OSHA can be a silly, silly deal. From past experience. Every layer we
add....
Why does everyone want the government to be some type of lifestyle
enforcer? It's sickening. But SOP. Too bad the few who knew why
protecting someone else's right is right, even if they don't
personally subscribe to whatever the choice may be.
What do you think about the women's right to choose? How about
letting people kill themselves?
We Got a Jumper!
Suicide is against the law! Quick, shoot the him before he hits the ground!
> I mean really, if we want to toss out the public health aspect
> altogether, I just don't like smoke. I know alot of people who don't
> like smoke, including smokers. To the extent that I have the ability to
> control my environment, I am going to do what I can to make the places I
> like to go smoke free.
Are you telling my you are some sorta obsessive-compulsive? You are
really saying that you want to control other people's environments, to
the full extent of the law, which you would see cover even more.
Swell. Lets all spend our hard earned dough so you don't have to
worry about controlling yourself. You will be able to go anywhere you
want! WOuldn't that be swell? That it makes me have fewer places to
go doesn't seem to even register.
Was there no such thing as non-smoking before the government got
involved? Crazy, alien thoughts... self-control, allowing others to
make "bad" choices...
I don't think you're very liberty oriented, in reality.
We just passed some bans in my country. At first, bars, eateries and
golf courses were "banned". Then the mayor comes out (it was his
idea, or something-- he loves himself-- whatever floats your boat,
but, you're supposed to listen when the majority says something, and
you represent 'em, or however that crazy governing system went) and is
like "I'm going to lift the ban on Golf courses, because they're not
really family oriented" or some bullshit like that --as if, bars are
places where kids & "families" hang out or some shit-- really it's
just sad. You know, /know/ one of his buddies called him up, and was
like "I like my cigars while I'm tee-ing" or whatever. Just so lame.
But it's lame anyways. Why do you think you should be able to control
my ability to have dinner and a smoke? Why do your "rights to clean
air" trump my rights to enjoy myself, few as the chances are? Oh, I
know-- Quit Smoking! That's an answer that would make everyone happy,
right? Solve that problem right up!
It's like a religious nut who wants creationism in the classroom,
claiming it's science. You claim to care about other's rights, but in
reality, you don't want those skin heads to be able to congregate and
spew their hate speech. Can't they see that they're just... wrong?
Let's have the government FORCE them to not do that thing they do that
I don't like. Surely not in a public place!!! What about the
children!?!?!
Sad, man, sad.
I say, let them Nazis do their thing in civic plaza-- this IS fucking
America. Hell Yeah.
Oh, wait-- Cap is dead, guess that's sorta like a play on the US o A.
*sniff* See ya, Rogers. May your shield be ever shiny, and bouncy.
God I loved how it bounced. Alas.
Out of the ashes, hopefully, something grand will come. (I'll still
miss the original, of course.)
--
We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of
others, without fearing it.
Thomas Jefferson
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