exactly ------------------------------------ Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer [email protected] tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com ------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Judah McAuley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:11 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something? There are very few friendly fire situations in the military, agreed. Probably many more accidental deaths of civilians but that tends to get seriously hushed up. However, even if we are just talking friendly fire, there are still more incidents in Afghanistan than you point to as situations where people were saved by concealed carry. I'm not saying that regular citizens don't sometimes save lives by having guns. They do. I'm saying that it is probably much more likely that they will cause further damage, however. I will readily admit that I don't have any firm numbers on that. I don't believe that anyone has figured out how to properly study the situation. So I am going based on logic and reason and logic tells me that more guns == more shooting == more people shot. As for your argument that police only qualify once a year and gun enthusiasts go shooting often, I think that misses the point. I think that people with concealed carry permits can probably hit a target. What they do not practice, however, is judgment, responding to crisis situations, target identification, etc. And, biggest of all, they do not have rules of engagement. We establish rules of engagement and train police and military so that they know when the shit hits the fan what they are supposed to do and how to try and deal with a situation while minimizing collateral damage. Concealed carry permits do not come with anything like that. There are no psych screens, there are no incident training sessions, there are no less than lethal options for escalation of force. I like guns. I don't trust people and their judgement. Shit, I don't trust cops and their judgement. More guns in the hands of more people in more places is not going to improve judgement and that's what we have to figure out. Judah On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:29 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > I disagree and say there is evidence showing otherwise. See my coming > response to Eric. > > Also, there are VERY few FF and AD situations in the military. It is > a Courts Marshall offense. > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> You think that the average person with a concealed permit has the >> ability to quickly, in an emergency situation, identify the >> legitimate threat, not confuse that target with any of the other >> concealed permit holders who are now trying to aim their weapons and >> take down the correct shooter in a panicked crowd? >> >> Shit, Tim, how many incidents do we have each year of accidental >> civilian shootings and friendly fire incidents in the military each >> year? And that is with dedicated training and working through those >> precise situations in urban warfare scenarios under defined rules of >> engagement. >> >> More guns in a panicked situation results in more people shooting. >> Explain the scenario where that is likely to make things better >> rather than worse. >> >> Judah >> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:35 AM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > I disagree, a couple of concealed carry individuals and this could >> > have ended much sooner. >> > >> > NYC is already one of the worst places in the U.S. for gun owners. >> > Their laws are as bad as Illinois and even worse than California. >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:354095 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
