It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, maybe you do. Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're outside of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the problem is with this. Either you subscribe to the religion, or you don't. Those that do subscribe are forgiven and go to Heaven. Those that don't subscribe to the religion are not forgiven and go to Hell. There is no two ways about it, there's no "forgiveness because he's a good person at heart", no in-betweens, no exceptions. Obviously, there are people within the religion who commit bad sins, heinous crimes, hold grudges, hate others. Everybody points the finger at others for their crimes and sins and ask for retribution. Fortunately, Christians know to also look at themselves and ask for the forgiveness for their sins (including judgement of others) that Jesus Christ gave to us when He died on the cross, and we do try to live the right life.
It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with the church is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, but don't forget the fact that the ultimate judgement comes from God, and either you're with Him or against Him. Matthew Small ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the same. Most very nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been an integral part of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it is always the church elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, however, it is seldom the priests (at least not in my hearing). > > I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if they point their finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the LAW, then they should be willing to look at themselves at the same time, and see how their actions fall within their own rules. > > Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" barrier. They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not allow the same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. The same action from one within their group is treated as a forgivable sin, but if done by someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately the barrier and reasons for it move from group to group, so most people can find a group just like them (as you say "personality is more like"). But the very existence of that kind of thinking is at odds with the basic teachings of all these churches, IMHO. > > You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. It is about hate. Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are great. Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is more than one church. People who think this guy is the worst thing to come along since the Inquisition have every right to their opinion. Heck, even those people who are calling in the death threats have the right to their opinion. Just not to act on it. > > The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown that many of those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning variety. Many of them hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I find sad and a little bit funny. They don't see that their very actions are diametrically opposite of what they say they are fighting for. And they guy they are fighting against seems to be better at what they say they are fighting for than they are. Funny. > > I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" category) are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only hating, but actual being proud of hating. > > I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think its great. And I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > > Jerry Johnson > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > I would say that your church is in the minority, and that you don't go to > church enough, and that you need to find a church where you feel that your > personality is more like those of the congregation. > > I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't find most people to > be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect all of your > church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't so. If you > subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others do, just live the > right life yourself. > > Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers have to say in it's > entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about hate at all, it's about > different opinions than yours regarding some issues. Not to say that there > is not hate, but it's mostly not. > > It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you think that most > Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their religion is > invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're blaming an entire religion for > the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that you don't know > the people that I go to church with. They are the nicest group of people > that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > > Matthew Small > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > > > > But I don't often go to Church. > > > > I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the Christian > religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an insult.) > > They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice it. And don't really > try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. They tend to be really > good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they define it (and > there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different places) you are a bad, > bad person, and deserve all you get. > > > > As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. Intellectually. It > doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. But I do get > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
