IMHO software doesn't need to be engineered. Electronics, combustion
engines, rockets, etc need to be engineered. Software Engineer = Coder.
I'm not trying to bash on programmers.... I've been there and done that and
I have respect for people who can write good code that works. I don't
agreed with your statement "coders just write code based on the reqs and
doesn't require a degree." I gained my best programming skills before I
ever even went to college to get my degree. I'm wondering what magic you
believe a degree has to turns someone from a coder to an "engineer".
Traditional engineering programs (degree) requires a high level of
understanding of math (Calc/Differential Eqns), physics, etc and none of
this is needed to be a good programmer or Software Engineer. By the same
token, you could say the same applies to Network Engineers, although at
least with network engineering having a good understanding of electricity
(for cabling/voltages) and some physics (optical networks) helps out. I
dunno...... I guess an engineer is someone who uses their skill to design
or implement a complex system to accomplish a single goal...... degree or no
degree.
Mike W.
"Liang Mark J Civ AFRL/PROI" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> My definition of Software Engineer is someone with an engineering degree
and
> also does software engineering. A Developer/Coder just write code base on
> the engineering requirements and doesn't require a degree.
>
> my two cents,
>
> mark,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard C. Berkowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:17 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
>
>
> >That's a scary thought: CCIEs who develop protocols. ;-]
>
> I know very few respected protocol or platform designers that ever
> mentioned having a CCIE. On the other hand, it only occasionally
> comes up that one has a PhD, which isn't always in a relevant
> discipline. I'm amused by the degree requirement--I could see an
> argument for a master's or doctorate, but the undergraduate computer
> science program gets into relatively little you need to know to
> design and implement protocols, other than as a coder.
>
> Personally, I'm a much better developer than I am a support person.
> There's overlap between the skills of product/protocol design and
> large network design, but much less with troubleshooting.
>
> Even quality testing is a somewhat different skill set than
> troubleshooting. For example, has anyone seen a Cisco exam that
> explored the differences among conformance, interoperability, and
> performance testing? The difference between a correct but boundary
> condition event, a syntactically incorrect event, and an inopportune
> event?
>
> >
> >They are looking for software engineers. They aren't going to find many
> >that have a CCIE? It's a different skill set and requires a different
type
> >of personality.
> >
> >Priscilla
> >
> >At 09:41 AM 7/18/01, Ole Drews Jensen wrote:
> >>Forgive me for sending this here, I know there's a place for job
> >>discussions, but I noticed that there have been several e-mails about
how
> >>CCIE's now have a harder time getting jobs.
> >>
> >>I received this e-mail (look at the message included after my signature)
> on
> >>another Cisco list I'm a member of:
> >>
> >>Hth,
> >>
> >>Ole
> >>
> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Ole Drews Jensen
> >> Systems Network Manager
> >> CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
> >> RWR Enterprises, Inc.
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> http://www.OleDrews.com/CCNP
> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> NEED A JOB ???
> >> http://www.oledrews.com/job
> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >>Message: 1
> >>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:11:26 -0000
> >>From: "JDO" >
> >>Subject: Looking for a Special Kind of CCIE
> >>
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>My name is Johnna Smith and I work for a placement firm in Dallas,
> >>Texas. I am in desperate need of a CCIE that DEVELOPS routing
> >>protocols. I need them to have BGP, DSPF, IS-IS, and MPLS. The must
> >>be a software engineer and they must be degreed.
> >>
> >>If any of you could help me, please give me a call or shoot me an
> >>email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at
> >>972-991-7569.
> >>
> >>Just to take a look at someof our other positions please go to
> >>
> >>
> >>We also work with another agency that focuese more on IT, you can
> >>find their site at
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> > >Johnna
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=13042&t=12805
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