Hi Cisco Kidd,
Once the market turns around again, my guess is that you will have no
problem finding a job with one of the major networking firms. With a
computer science degree and a CCNP, you'll be hot. And that's the best way
to get into network software engineering. On the job training! At some
companies, college grads start out in software testing rather than
development, but it would only take a year or so for you to move into
software engineering. And at some companies you could go right into
software engineering I would think.
I was going to suggest W. Richard Steven's books, but I see you already
mentioned that. Douglas Comer's more advanced books are good too. I'm sure
others will give you advice too. We're good at that on this list! ;-)
Priscilla
At 10:53 AM 7/20/01, Cisco KIdd78 wrote:
>I agree with what you said about music and math being correlated, because
>I play an instrument and math has always come easy to me ( I know that
>this is not evidence enough for a theory like that, but, it works for me ).
>
>My question is what is the best way to get into network software
>engineering? What books should I read? What courses are most
>relevant in the undergraduate curriculum? I am trying to complete my
>computer science degree now and I am one test away from a CCNP. I like
>networking but I also like programming. I find it hard to commit to one,
>so I figured I might as well combine the two. So I need some advice on
>how to enter the market for network software engineering? My guess is I
>will I have to read all of Richard Steven's books.....
>
>Thanks
>Paul
>
>
>>From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer"
>>Reply-To: "Priscilla Oppenheimer"
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: RE: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
>>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:37:52 -0400
>>
>>I'm sure there are people who are good at both types of tasks: CCIE tasks
>>and software development tasks. For both jobs, you have to be smart, that's
>>for sure.
>>
>>Well, thinking about the work of Howard Gardner, who wrote some terrific
>>books on multiple intelligences, I would change that. To be a CCIE or
>>software developer you need logical/mathematical intelligence. Linguistic
>>intelligence helps but is not required for either. There seems to be a high
>>correlation between logical/mathematical and musical intelligence. I
>>suspect that for many support jobs, you need body/kinesthetic intelligence
>>and spatial intelligence, which many software developers do not have.
>>
>>At my local high school I help with both hardware and Cisco classes. The
>>school requires the hardware class before the Cisco classes. A certain set
>>of students do really well in the hardware class because they have
>>excellent body and spatial intelligence. They can take apart and rebuild a
>>computer in seconds. Then they get to the Cisco Academy class and are
>>expected to read volumes of material on the theory of networking, deal with
>>obscure subnetting scenarios, learn file-naming conventions for Cisco IOS,
>>pass a written multiple-choice test every other week (requiring linguistic
>>intelligence), etc. They spend almost no time building networks. Most of
>>the students who were stars in the hardware class do terribly in the Cisco
>>classes. It's sad to see them decide that maybe they aren't good with
>>computers afterall. I try to build up their egos again, because I think the
>>Cisco Academy materials are completely wrong for a high school and don't
>>take into account that the networking field needs people of different types
>>of intelligence.
>>
>>That's my $00000001. I'd love to hear those blues, Ole! ;-) I love the
blues.
>>
>>Priscilla
>>
>>At 09:07 AM 7/19/01, Ole Drews Jensen wrote:
>> >I hear what you're saying Phil, and agree that these two areas are very
>> >different. My problem was always the forgetting the time when I was
diving
>> >in thousands lines of codes, and I would suddently look at the clock and
>> >discover that it was 4 o'clock in the morning.
>> >
>> >It doesn't mean however that you can't do both. It's like when I'm
playing
>> >my guitar. Sometimes, I grap my Jackson and play Satriani or Nuno, and at
>> >other times, I grap my handmade Spanish guitar and play classical
>> music, but
>> >most often I use my SRV signature stratocaster and play blues.
>> >
>> >The fun begins when you're mixing them all together - that's when you
start
>> >playing like Blackmore or Yngwie...
>> >
>> >After that being said, I realize that keeping up with new technologies in
>> >both areas can be tough and very time dependant, but it can be done.
>> >
>> >Another 00000010 cents.
>> >
>> >Take care,
>> >
>> >Ole
>> >
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > Ole Drews Jensen
>> > Systems Network Manager
>> > CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
>> > RWR Enterprises, Inc.
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > http://www.RouterChief.com
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > NEED A JOB ???
>> > http://www.oledrews.com/job
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Phil Barker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:56 AM
>> >To: Ole Drews Jensen; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >Subject: RE: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
>> >
>> >
>> > Ole,
>> > I think I know where Priscilla is coming from.
>> >I developed software for 10 years (mainly C/C++)
>> >before turning to Network Engineering. The difference
>> >in the roles in my experience has been dramatic.
>> > Software Engineering requires an intensity of
>> >concentration that I can only compare to playing
>> >chess. I was rarely required to interact with
>> >customers and as a result my interpersonal skills
>> >didn't develop.
>> > I took my first job in Networking for a major
>> >bank. This was very open plan and one day the team
>> >leader called the regular meeting. Everyone shuffled
>> >towards the meeting room EXCEPT me. 45 mins later my
>> >team leader came looking for me. I was still at my
>> >desk, deep in concentration. She couldn't stop
>> >laughing as everyone else was taking bets as to when I
>> >would realise that no-one else was there. I hadn't
>> >noticed a thing.
>> > Customer interaction has also been a learning
>> >curve but fortunately I appear to have picked this
>> >skill up quite naturally.
>> > I am much happier in my work now and don't intend
>> >to return to Software Development. Both Software
>> >development and Network Engineering are such wide and
>> >diverse fields you cannot possibly keep up with both.
>> > I havn't written Software for 5 years now and
>> >while the logical skill required to do so will never
>> >leave me the Microsoft Foundation Clases certainly
>> >have.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >Phil.
>> >--- Ole Drews Jensen wrote: >
>> >I don't agree with your Priscilla.
>> > >
>> > > Again, I am not a CCIE yet, but I'm on my way. I
>> > > like doing both things (and
>> > > system administration), but then again - maybe I
>> > > have a split personality
>> > > 8^O
>> > >
>> > > I agree with you about not finding many with this
>> > > skill, but hopefully I
>> > > will become one soon.
>> > >
>> > > Take care,
>> > >
>> > > Ole
>> > >
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > Ole Drews Jensen
>> > > Systems Network Manager
>> > > CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
>> > > RWR Enterprises, Inc.
>> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > http://www.OleDrews.com/CCNP
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > NEED A JOB ???
>> > > http://www.oledrews.com/job
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Priscilla Oppenheimer
>> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:52 PM
>> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Subject: Re: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > That's a scary thought: CCIEs who develop protocols.
>> > > ;-]
>> > >
>> > > They are looking for software engineers. They aren't
>> > > going to find many
>> > > that have a CCIE? It's a different skill set and
>> > > requires a different type
>> > > of personality.
>> > >
>> > > Priscilla
>> > >
>> > > At 09:41 AM 7/18/01, Ole Drews Jensen wrote:
>> > > >Forgive me for sending this here, I know there's a
>> > > place for job
>> > > >discussions, but I noticed that there have been
>> > > several e-mails about how
>> > > >CCIE's now have a harder time getting jobs.
>> > > >
>> > > >I received this e-mail (look at the message
>> > > included after my signature) on
>> > > >another Cisco list I'm a member of:
>> > > >
>> > > >Hth,
>> > > >
>> > > >Ole
>> > > >
>> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > > Ole Drews Jensen
>> > > > Systems Network Manager
>> > > > CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
>> > > > RWR Enterprises, Inc.
>> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > > http://www.OleDrews.com/CCNP
>> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > > NEED A JOB ???
>> > > > http://www.oledrews.com/job
>> > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > > >
>> > > >Message: 1
>> > > >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:11:26 -0000
>> > > >From: "JDO" >
>> > > >Subject: Looking for a Special Kind of CCIE
>> > > >
>> > > >Hello,
>> > > >
>> > > >My name is Johnna Smith and I work for a placement
>> > > firm in Dallas,
>> > > >Texas. I am in desperate need of a CCIE that
>> > > DEVELOPS routing
>> > > >protocols. I need them to have BGP, DSPF, IS-IS,
>> > > and MPLS. The must
>> > > >be a software engineer and they must be degreed.
>> > > >
>> > > >If any of you could help me, please give me a call
>> > > or shoot me an
>> > > >email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at
>> > > >972-991-7569.
>> > > >
>> > > >Just to take a look at someof our other positions
>> > > please go to
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >We also work with another agency that focuese more
>> > > on IT, you can
>> > > >find their site at
>> > > >
>> > > >Thanks
>> > > >
>> > > >Johnna
>> > > ________________________
>> > >
>> > > Priscilla Oppenheimer
>> > > http://www.priscilla.com
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >____________________________________________________________
>> >Do You Yahoo!?
>> >Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> >or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
>>________________________
>>
>>Priscilla Oppenheimer
>>http://www.priscilla.com
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
________________________
Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com
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