Bravo, Suze. Been right there with you, and I agree 100%. Lucky for me, a top UK breeder trusted me with a wonderful bitch to start, with NO STRINGS, plenty of mentoring, albeit from afar, and no headache coown!!!!
Sad to not have been able to start here at home. I do coown one dog, and will never do it again. I find lots of chastizing, and innuendo that because I am new to the breed, I WILL NOT possibly do what is best for the breed. The proof will be in the pudding on that one. But until my litters come along, I do the testing, learn what I can, and do my own thing. Just read the posts on the list to see that noone agrees with anyone and the way they do things, so why would anyone care to try to please these people? Not me, and thank god I can sleep at night by doing what I believe is best for my dogs and my perception of the needs of the breed. In the meantime, great, caring people like Suze and myself, who may be newcomers to breeding dogs, but had many successful years with horses, continue to grow further apart from the Club orientated religous type mentality. If it's not our way, its no way. Yeah , right. Sorry for implying I am speaking on your behalf there, Suze. You know me, insert foot in mouth as always! Never know how to get my point across without causing some contoversy on this list! All the best, Terri Easterbrooks Terri Taylor-Easterbrooks --- "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, Peggy, > I have great respect for you as a dog > person. However, I have to say > that here I believe you are very wrong. Blaming the > victim of a scam is > NOT going to help it from occuring. Do you think > that it is only stupid > people who get scammed? You REALLY think that > victims of such schemes > should be ashamed? > This is the same rationale that people apply > to women who are raped. > "She deserved it, that flirt". > So, let's examine how this might happen. > Someone comes into Cavaliers > from another breed. In their breed a top producing > bitch/dog might cost > quite a bit. Of course, they want to begin their > foundation with the > best that they can get. This is only the RIGHT way > to go about things. > One looks for the best with which to begin. Herein > lies the problem; > one cannot learn Cavalier pedigrees and top dogs and > breed problems > overnight so must TRUST someone to help decipher > this. Most breeders > don't have the time of DAY for someone who wants a > show prospect. So, > this leaves the door wide open to the "kind, helpful > and highly > informative" breeder who was "not going to sell this > pup from her top > producing champion" BUT.......in "YOUR case as you > have spent so much > time and effort trying to get involved", I'll help > you........................right into a puppy > pyramid scheme. The pups > arrive, the contract doesn't. Mentoring is > discussed in depth but never > happens. > I'm about to hear a lecture on > patience...............I can smell it > coming. OK.....so you think perhaps "patience" is > just an amount of > time? One should spend years on the phone waiting > for someone to take > time for them? I'd rather spend the time learning, > so how can you do > that if no one will talk to you? It isn't necessary > to BUY your dog > fast, but one doesn't want to spend years waiting to > LEARN about the > breed? Yes, go to shows, meet people.........but > how many people will > take time to keep corresponding with someone who > wants their first > Cavalier for six months? I have done this, > incidentally.....people from > other breeds who know it takes time to get a good > pup will ask questions > for months on end. GOOD for them. However, I will > take the time to > discuss this with them and from what they say this > is not common. > AND.........since I am relatively new to the breed > in comparison with > others, *I* am not the ideal one to whom they should > be speaking. > So........now you are blaming the people who > took the time to TRY to > find the best foundation for their breeding AND pay > the most they could > afford??? Excuse me? Did you want them to shop for > bargains in > beginning their program? What, exactly, DO you > think they should have > done to get their first foundation dogs? After > calling twenty or more > breeders to ask for help; WHAT should they have > done? > > I'm eagerly awaiting suggestions for the list of > about six folks who > want to get into Cavaliers with whom I'm > corresponding. Perhaps you'd > like to spend six or seven months mentoring them? > > Suze > > Peggy Mickelson wrote: > > > > Dave's comments about co-owning, not being able > to buy a dog outright, and puppy back arrangements > are all pretty true......however, I don't think we > should all sit here and castigate only the breeders. > Some of the blame has to be applied to the buyers, > too. When I hear some of the "deals" people enter > into I am amazed at the stupidity of anyone who > would enter into such an arrangement. Maybe > stupidity isn't the right word, maybe I should say > lack of interest in searching further, or maybe just > gullibility. > > I marvel at the ability of some breeders who > can bamboozle puppy buyers into such arrangements. > > I marvel even more at how anyone on earth can > be convinced to enter into these contracts. I think > they must buy their cars from used car salesmen in > loud plaid suits with bad haircuts and bad skin, > too, at prices that are higher than the cars were > when they came off the assembly line! > > Co-ownership should be for the convenience of > both parties...not for the greediness of one and > the.......what?.......of the other. > > There are successful co-ownerships now, and > there always have been. However, only in Cavaliers > have I heard of the kind of co-ownership where the > buyer has to give back whole litters, or the > majority of the first three litters, etc. All the > advantages in most Cavalier co-ownerships seem to > lie with the breeder of the co-owned dog. Of > course, the people who have been suckered into these > contracts will be proud to tell you what a generous > person the co-owner is and how they couldn't have > owned little PoopsieAnne in any other way, etc. > > I guess when you've made a fool of yourself > you have to make it look good somehow. > > To me and to many others it will always look as if > those people walked around with one of those signs > on their backs (or maybe foreheads) that says "I'm > an idiot, come and take advantage of me." So > someone did. > > Peggy > > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and > send the email: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for > assistance. > > Search the Archives... > http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 > by its original author. > > -- > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is > not enough for a man > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and > send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for > assistance. > Search the Archives... > http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by > its original author. ===== Please visit our website :http://www.antiquehorsesource.com, featuring Champion bred Cavalier King Charles Spaniels & The Antique Horse Source. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
