I have never been able to understand what breeding and owning horses has got to do with Cavaliers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Taylor Easterbrooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] co-owning and other strings.....
> Bravo, Suze. Been right there with you, and I agree > 100%. Lucky for me, a top UK breeder trusted me with > a wonderful bitch to start, with NO STRINGS, plenty of > mentoring, albeit from afar, and no headache coown!!!! > > Sad to not have been able to start here at home. I do > coown one dog, and will never do it again. > > I find lots of chastizing, and innuendo that because I > am new to the breed, I WILL NOT possibly do what is > best for the breed. The proof will be in the pudding > on that one. But until my litters come along, I do the > testing, learn what I can, and do my own thing. Just > read the posts on the list to see that noone agrees > with anyone and the way they do things, so why would > anyone care to try to please these people? Not me, and > thank god I can sleep at night by doing what I believe > is best for my dogs and my perception of the needs of > the breed. In the meantime, great, caring people like > Suze and myself, who may be newcomers to breeding > dogs, but had many successful years with horses, > continue to grow further apart from the Club > orientated religous type mentality. If it's not our > way, its no way. Yeah , right. > > Sorry for implying I am speaking on your behalf > there, Suze. You know me, insert foot in mouth as > always! Never know how to get my point across without > causing some contoversy on this list! > > All the best, > > Terri Easterbrooks > > > > Terri Taylor-Easterbrooks > --- "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, Peggy, > > I have great respect for you as a dog > > person. However, I have to say > > that here I believe you are very wrong. Blaming the > > victim of a scam is > > NOT going to help it from occuring. Do you think > > that it is only stupid > > people who get scammed? You REALLY think that > > victims of such schemes > > should be ashamed? > > This is the same rationale that people apply > > to women who are raped. > > "She deserved it, that flirt". > > So, let's examine how this might happen. > > Someone comes into Cavaliers > > from another breed. In their breed a top producing > > bitch/dog might cost > > quite a bit. Of course, they want to begin their > > foundation with the > > best that they can get. This is only the RIGHT way > > to go about things. > > One looks for the best with which to begin. Herein > > lies the problem; > > one cannot learn Cavalier pedigrees and top dogs and > > breed problems > > overnight so must TRUST someone to help decipher > > this. Most breeders > > don't have the time of DAY for someone who wants a > > show prospect. So, > > this leaves the door wide open to the "kind, helpful > > and highly > > informative" breeder who was "not going to sell this > > pup from her top > > producing champion" BUT.......in "YOUR case as you > > have spent so much > > time and effort trying to get involved", I'll help > > you........................right into a puppy > > pyramid scheme. The pups > > arrive, the contract doesn't. Mentoring is > > discussed in depth but never > > happens. > > I'm about to hear a lecture on > > patience...............I can smell it > > coming. OK.....so you think perhaps "patience" is > > just an amount of > > time? One should spend years on the phone waiting > > for someone to take > > time for them? I'd rather spend the time learning, > > so how can you do > > that if no one will talk to you? It isn't necessary > > to BUY your dog > > fast, but one doesn't want to spend years waiting to > > LEARN about the > > breed? Yes, go to shows, meet people.........but > > how many people will > > take time to keep corresponding with someone who > > wants their first > > Cavalier for six months? I have done this, > > incidentally.....people from > > other breeds who know it takes time to get a good > > pup will ask questions > > for months on end. GOOD for them. However, I will > > take the time to > > discuss this with them and from what they say this > > is not common. > > AND.........since I am relatively new to the breed > > in comparison with > > others, *I* am not the ideal one to whom they should > > be speaking. > > So........now you are blaming the people who > > took the time to TRY to > > find the best foundation for their breeding AND pay > > the most they could > > afford??? Excuse me? Did you want them to shop for > > bargains in > > beginning their program? What, exactly, DO you > > think they should have > > done to get their first foundation dogs? After > > calling twenty or more > > breeders to ask for help; WHAT should they have > > done? > > > > I'm eagerly awaiting suggestions for the list of > > about six folks who > > want to get into Cavaliers with whom I'm > > corresponding. Perhaps you'd > > like to spend six or seven months mentoring them? > > > > Suze > > > > Peggy Mickelson wrote: > > > > > > Dave's comments about co-owning, not being able > > to buy a dog outright, and puppy back arrangements > > are all pretty true......however, I don't think we > > should all sit here and castigate only the breeders. > > Some of the blame has to be applied to the buyers, > > too. When I hear some of the "deals" people enter > > into I am amazed at the stupidity of anyone who > > would enter into such an arrangement. Maybe > > stupidity isn't the right word, maybe I should say > > lack of interest in searching further, or maybe just > > gullibility. > > > I marvel at the ability of some breeders who > > can bamboozle puppy buyers into such arrangements. > > > I marvel even more at how anyone on earth can > > be convinced to enter into these contracts. I think > > they must buy their cars from used car salesmen in > > loud plaid suits with bad haircuts and bad skin, > > too, at prices that are higher than the cars were > > when they came off the assembly line! > > > Co-ownership should be for the convenience of > > both parties...not for the greediness of one and > > the.......what?.......of the other. > > > There are successful co-ownerships now, and > > there always have been. However, only in Cavaliers > > have I heard of the kind of co-ownership where the > > buyer has to give back whole litters, or the > > majority of the first three litters, etc. All the > > advantages in most Cavalier co-ownerships seem to > > lie with the breeder of the co-owned dog. Of > > course, the people who have been suckered into these > > contracts will be proud to tell you what a generous > > person the co-owner is and how they couldn't have > > owned little PoopsieAnne in any other way, etc. > > > I guess when you've made a fool of yourself > > you have to make it look good somehow. > > > To me and to many others it will always look as if > > those people walked around with one of those signs > > on their backs (or maybe foreheads) that says "I'm > > an idiot, come and take advantage of me." So > > someone did. > > > Peggy > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > "Magic Commands": > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and > > send the email: > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for > > assistance. > > > Search the Archives... > > http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 > > by its original author. > > > > -- > > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers > > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is > > not enough for a man > > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica > > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear > > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and > > send the email: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for > > assistance. > > Search the Archives... > > http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by > > its original author. > > > ===== > Please visit our website :http://www.antiquehorsesource.com, featuring Champion bred Cavalier King Charles Spaniels & The Antique Horse Source. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > http://phone.yahoo.com > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
