I'll also point out that permanent *sometimes* works better for teams and companies than independents - less because the individual's needs, more because of a new dynamic introduce by team members working together.
When you're working *together*, there are things that are useful to always have handy and already set up. A team shouldn't have to unroll a bunch of posters, find an unused whiteboard, lay out a bunch of papers...etc every time they need to get together to work. This is usually solved with private offices or dedicated workspace areas. We've discussed the pros and cons of those on this list in the past, so I won't dive into it again here, but I think the key here is looking at the specific need or set of needs, and addressing that with a new tool if it makes sense, instead of defaulting back to the tools that offices have used to date. You may end up back at private offices if they're all that you can make work, and that's cool. But it's a lot of fun and very valuable to put in the intellectual effort to see what alternatives you can dream up and execute to solve these problems. In the opportunities we've had to try and experiment, we've consistently found solutions that work better for our members than the ones that are typically presented. That's half the fun of running a coworking space, anyway :) -Alex /ah indyhall.org coworking in philadelphia On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Tom Brandt <[email protected]> wrote: > People did want someplace where they could leave stuff so we now have > lockers that almost all members use. > > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I stand corrected then: flex desks might be all that works. Nonetheless, >> let your members and prospectives guide you. And that for those of you who >> plan to hinge your biz model on flex desks, that is before you open doors, >> be prepared to "pivot". >> >> @Alex, yes, perhaps habit is the better word. I guess I've only seen >> "hard habits to break", no matter how compelling the price and amenities >> (and I'll just safely say that the amenities in and around my office are >> pretty compelling). Yes yes, the community is super important, but I don't >> see a prospect that will buy into the community that immediately - it takes >> time to embrace that intangible. >> >> And yes, like Alex, I'd encourage people to utilize flex desks, and like >> Indy Hall, BLANKSPACES has full-time dedicated spaces along w/ flex desks. >> >> >> Jerome >> ______________ >> BLANKSPACES >> "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself" >> >> www.blankspaces.com >> ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los >> Angeles, CA 90036 >> >> On Jan 14, 2012, at 11:32 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: >> >> The point here goes back to my (and Rachel's) original point: pay >> attention to what people say, need, and do...and adjust. >> >> What Jerome describes as an inherent psychology, I really just think is >> habit. It is 100% true that it exists, and it is 100% true that it has the >> potential to stand in the way between you and success. >> >> But it's a habit, which means it is learned and can be unlearned - or not >> learned in the first place. >> >> People are psychologically compelled to "nest" - but doing it at the >> workplace isn't a psychological requirement for happiness or productivity. >> The compulsion to have "my own place" is also strongest when it's difficult >> to feel ownership of the larger context. If your members find it possible >> to feel ownership and comfort in the entire office, they feel less >> compelled to have a specific space of their own. >> >> I'd discourage the assumption that people need a permanent place because >> *you* do - there's a whole spectrum of needs, and coworking covers a >> number of them, and not always all at the same time. Setting up price >> points today that don't work doesn't stop you from setting up new price >> points tomorrow that do. Be prepared to iterate and learn, as Workantile >> (and many others) have. The point of these adjustments is that they're >> based on what members ACTUALLY do and need, vs what they say they want. >> >> As a personal note, I spent the first few years as a full time member of >> Indy Hall myself, and for the last 2 years have spent more time as a flex >> member without a permanent desk and personally love it. >> >> -Alex >> >> /ah >> indyhall.org >> coworking in philadelphia >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Tom Brandt <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> That's an interesting comment. All the desks at Workantile are shared. >>> We tried permanent desks for a while, but there was so little demand that >>> we discontinued them. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> I would like to remind everyone that Alex is totally right: the >>>> flex/hot desk is the ideal, as that one desk can serve several people. >>>> HOWEVER, especially to the newbies out there, flex desks can be very >>>> difficult to "sell". After 4 years of operating a coworking space, and now >>>> two, there is just a persistent need for people to "own" their space. >>>> There is no amount of cloud storage, and mobile computing that replaces >>>> the psychology that when someone comes in to an office, they can return to >>>> the same, familiar desk or office. That they can leave behind a stack of >>>> paperwork and belongings they don't want to carry around. >>>> >>>> Please everyone, be mindful of the coworking/biz model ideals and the >>>> realities to actually convince someone to pay to join your community. >>>> Because at the end of the day, cash flow is the only thing that prevents >>>> you from closing shop. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome >>>> ______________ >>>> BLANKSPACES >>>> "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself" >>>> >>>> www.blankspaces.com >>>> ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los >>>> Angeles, CA 90036 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 14, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Tom Brandt wrote: >>>> >>>> At Workantile we experimented with various pricing schemes, but settled >>>> on the following: >>>> >>>> Full member: $160/month. This comes with 24/7/365 access, ability to >>>> reserve conference rooms, ability to host events. It also comes with an >>>> expectation of work to help maintain the space, such as taking out the >>>> trash, cleaning up the kitchen, bathroom, helping with marketing, etc. >>>> Members can purchase a "get out of work" pass for an additional $70/month. >>>> >>>> Affiliate member: $25/month. This comes with one free day pass per >>>> month, plus the ability to purchase day passes at $10/day in sets of five >>>> passes. >>>> >>>> Student member: $35/month. This is the same as a full member, but the >>>> member must be currently enrolled in an accredited college or university, >>>> and is expected to make a presentation to the rest of the membership on >>>> whatever he or she is working that term. >>>> >>>> All members get an RFID key fob which they place next to a RFID reader >>>> to open the door. This way we can offer 24/7/365 access to the space for >>>> full members without handing out actual keys. For affiliate members, the >>>> RFID chip is activated only on days for which they have reserved a day >>>> pass. >>>> >>>> This seems to be working out well. People understand it and it is easy >>>> for us to administer. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Cheryl Jaycox < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chad, >>>>> Thank you for the detailed information, I feel the same way with some >>>>> of the pricing charts I have looked at...confusing.... I like the Basic >>>>> membership set up and will discuss this with the other core members. Since >>>>> you mentioned it on an adverage how many events does your space host a >>>>> month? To members only or do you open it up to anyone interested? >>>>> Thanks Chad, your post are always helpful...as always look forward to >>>>> your opinions and suggestions. >>>>> CJay >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Chad Ballantyne < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I go crossed-eyed looking at some rate chats with the hourly model! >>>>>> That head ache alone is worth any member staying a few hours over their >>>>>> monthly allotments, so we've kept is simple. 3 main membership rates and >>>>>> based off our $25/day (membership Fee) + $15/day ongoing >>>>>> . >>>>>> *Basic* = $25/mth -1 day a month in the space and access to all >>>>>> community events (get's their feet wet and we hope will translate into >>>>>> the >>>>>> next level of membership) >>>>>> Every day after that is $15/day (versions of this plan could be a 1 >>>>>> day/wk plan = $75/mth or 2 days per week = $100/mth. Some have applied >>>>>> for >>>>>> these since launching the Basic+day scenario >>>>>> >>>>>> *Lite Membership* = $180/mth = 3 days per week >>>>>> >>>>>> *FullTime* = $300/mth (27/7) This is the only rate that there's a >>>>>> better bargain - but we're re-thinking it now as Alex has said before >>>>>> Full-time Desks takes a desk "off the market" and therefore can only be >>>>>> rented once, as opposed to a flex desk which can be rent 3-4 times over >>>>>> as >>>>>> the membership won't use that desk at the same time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd encourage y'all to try the Basic Membership. Thanks again to >>>>>> Alex for the suggestion. >>>>>> Since we launched the package we've seen about a member a week sign >>>>>> up. It's not big bucks, but most grab it for the year ($275/year - $25 >>>>>> off >>>>>> if they pay for the 12 mths up front) And so the 8 that have signed up so >>>>>> far put $2200 in our bank account. We might see them one month and not >>>>>> the >>>>>> next but they attend our events to network, etc. Well worth the $25 >>>>>> >>>>>> Members can use all meeting space as part of their membership if it's >>>>>> a client meeting during the day and we just ask that they don't go over 2 >>>>>> hours per meeting. Some go a bit over, we let it ride and just monitor >>>>>> space usage for all members as to not have one or two monopolize the >>>>>> space. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meeting space for workshops, classes, clinics and events we charge >>>>>> hourly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since The Creative Space is not our full-time job, we have to do >>>>>> everything we can to minimize the overhead and workload for >>>>>> administrating >>>>>> it all. >>>>>> Here's a summery of a few of the things we do to minimize the need >>>>>> for costly systems/apps, manpower, etc >>>>>> >>>>>> SImple membership plans >>>>>> Google cal for bookings/events >>>>>> Skype to inform members that "clients are here" (we have 2 floors so >>>>>> the upstairs peeps need some reception support) >>>>>> Members help gather trash for trash day and re-supply toiletries when >>>>>> their low. we just make sure the supply rooms are full >>>>>> Every brings indoor shoes or slippers (has cut down our sweeping >>>>>> mopping time drastically, especially during winter months - (Oh Canada - >>>>>> snow, slush, salt) >>>>>> MadMimi for news blasts >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Peace, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chad >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2012-01-14, at 9:11 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Especially when just getting started, there's a lot of power in >>>>>> "keeping it simple". It's tempting and easy to create a membership to fit >>>>>> every person, down to half days and hourly. The problem I've seen with >>>>>> this >>>>>> is that it creates overhead both for you (in the fact that you need some >>>>>> way to keep track), as well as your members (they are always watching a >>>>>> clock to make sure they don't go over). >>>>>> >>>>>> Having spoken to people who've been members of both models, * >>>>>> membership* is preferred to be as simple as possible. The only thing >>>>>> that people really, really appreciate in granular hourly pricing is >>>>>> meeting >>>>>> space - which totally makes sense, it's rare to have half and full day >>>>>> meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also like to think about this in terms of membership vs. renter. >>>>>> It's hard to become a community member an hour at a time - within that >>>>>> hour >>>>>> you need to do what you're there to do AND start to get to know people. >>>>>> Inside of a full day, there's far more opportunity for serendipity and >>>>>> social interactions to happen in addition to a productive work day. The >>>>>> people who have that full spectrum of experiences are the ones who tend >>>>>> to >>>>>> fall into the camp of community member. The ones who ONLY want a place to >>>>>> work and have no interest in community participation are welcome, of >>>>>> course, but tend to stick around for shorter durations. This also means >>>>>> lower retention, which means more resources spent on recruiting new butts >>>>>> into seats, and draining your time and money from focusing on the members >>>>>> you DO have. >>>>>> >>>>>> No right or wrong here, of course. As Rachel suggested - having >>>>>> people to ask how THEY would use the space is really helpful. The trick >>>>>> here is to ask, but not necessarily do exactly what they say. Sometimes >>>>>> people think they know what they want, but when it comes down to it, they >>>>>> have no clue because they've never had it before. The IDEA of hourly >>>>>> usage >>>>>> sounds great to somebody, but they end up not being the one who uses it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Henry Ford quote "if I'd have giving people what they asked for, >>>>>> I would've built a faster horse" comes to mind. You have to have people >>>>>> who >>>>>> you can not only speak to, but who you can actually *understand* and >>>>>> develop your model around their needs, not just *what they say*their >>>>>> needs are. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /ah >>>>>> indyhall.org >>>>>> coworking in philadelphia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:42 AM, CAJ <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Rachel, >>>>>>> There are a four of us, which is where the discussion comes from. >>>>>>> There are diffrent ideas on the subject. So I thought I would bring >>>>>>> the topic here for feedback. Since this is a new concept that we are >>>>>>> just begining to push. We have the space which we consider phase one, >>>>>>> with two workstaions and 12 basically "hot seats" Phase two is a 3000 >>>>>>> sq ft renivated warehouse. We began by consideing a daily rate as >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> as monthly memberships, but thought that people might be more >>>>>>> comfortable with hourly or even half day rate. >>>>>>> CJay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 13, 4:43 am, rachel young <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > Do you have some existing folks from your community that are >>>>>>> interested in >>>>>>> > joining together to form a space? If so, ask them and average out >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> > responses. They are the ones that will be paying after all. >>>>>>> > r. >>>>>>> > On Jan 13, 2012 12:03 AM, "CAJ" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > Coworking Group, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > Planning coworking space.....Need feedback on hourly vs daily >>>>>>> rates. >>>>>>> > > We are in a rural/suburban area outside St.Louis and this is >>>>>>> indeed a >>>>>>> > > new concept for most businesses. The concept of coworking is >>>>>>> needed in >>>>>>> > > this community. Any suggestions? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > -- >>>>>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google Groups >>>>>>> > > "Coworking" group. >>>>>>> > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> > > [email protected]. >>>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Chad Ballantyne >>>>>> The Creative Space Director >>>>>> >>>>>> (705) 252-2423 >>>>>> www.thecreativespace.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cheryl Jaycox >>>>> Community Manager >>>>> Micro Office Suites & Business Center >>>>> The HIVE@44,Business Coworking Communty >>>>> Phone: 636-405-3130 >>>>> Cell: 314-800-4305 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> twb >>>> member, Workantile Exchange <http://workantileexchange.com/> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> twb >>> member, Workantile Exchange <http://workantileexchange.com/> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Coworking" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Coworking" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > twb > member, Workantile Exchange <http://workantileexchange.com/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
