it is not for me to say if indonesia should be balkanised,
it is a decision that should be made by the citizens of the
country, and not when they are under brutal repression.
for example the usa was formed when they got fed up
of the brits telling them what to do and taking the good
bits for themselves---is this so different today for various
countries which want to do the same?
it might also not be very realistic of any country short
of russia or china to turn their guns on the usa. there is
enough economic firepower to trash most countries if
they really tried.
if u read the conspiracy theorists it is said the usa
allows gaddafi and his kind to stay in power as they
serve a useful function for those really in charge--by
brutal repression of their own people and raping their
own country like suharto they thus serve the larger good
of the people really running the world behind the scenes.
some of the newsgroups have comments on this with the
current effort by congress to support the murderous right wing
generals in south and central american using billions of
tax payer dollars. this ensures the oil continues to flow
to their friends and the drugs are put in the right place.
the cia themselves are said to have flooded los angeles
with drugs.
it is much easier do deal with one brutal general who
has killed off lots of his own people than to have genuine
democracy and many concerned citizens who will then start
to practise real democracy.
rgds
leelock
----- Original Message -----
From: "Macdonald Stainsby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!
I am a bit nervous to speak for Nestor here, but allow me this much. There
is no denial at all of the damage done to the citizens of Aceh, East Timor
or Indonesia proper.
What you are doing is saying that if one opposes killing citizens by the
Indonesian generals, you must be interested in the break up of Indonesia *as
a state*, neither an accurate statement nor an argument... simply just a
statement of your preference.
Now, in a world that the US/etc want to balkanize into a million pieces, the
best defence of all the peoples in this archipelago is a state that is
strong enough to turn the guns on the enemy- the imperialist states. Is this
radical? that's your decision, but it is no less radical than proposing the
Imperialist plan of making resistance impossible by giving them absolutely
no state to organise in is the right move. I venture that if Aceh breaks
off, it will certasinly not end there. We will end up with probably 6-10
Indonesias in the long run, should the Imperialists get their way.
Macdonald
----- Original Message -----
From: "leeenglock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!
> try telling the citizens of aceh about that--they have
> been brutally repressed for decades, it is still going on.
> they will benefit from not having villages destroyed,
> husbands and sons dragged off in the middle of the night
> never to come back, women raped by soldiers, etc.
> does anyone have to be the bad guy when the common
> people object and rise up against corrupt military
> dictatorships?
>
> rgds
> leelock
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!
>
>
> En relaci�n a Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!,
> el 19 Aug 00, a las 22:45, leeenglock dijo:
>
> >
> > the northern part of indonesia is aceh and they also want to secede
> > since they have had their own kings and sultans for many generations.
> > indonesia is a modern construct after the second world war. there are
> > many christians and hindus that would not want to be part of the
> > javanese controlled country, and the leadership is fearful of this
> > breakup.
> >
> > rgds
> > leelock
> >
>
> Truth is always concrete. Who can benefit from a breakup of
> Indonesia?
>
>
>
> N�stor Miguel Gorojovsky
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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