I don’t feel I was attacking that much, perhaps a bit sharply worded.
My point, which doesn’t seem to have come across entirely, from my first post 
on was; The battle is pointless. The concerns people raise here with banning 
the servers, them reappearing, apparent money loss – We’ve fought that battle. 
A long time ago, for a very long duration. We simply lost. VALVe doesn’t care 
like they used too. 
Accept the situation for what it is and try to work with it. Asking VALVe to do 
something about it simply isn’t going to fly, unfortunately. And I say this 
with pain in my heart, because we used to have a lovely well working – be it in 
an online way – relation with VALVe in the past.
Saint K.
From: Csgo_servers [mailto:csgo_servers-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On 
Behalf Of Andrew Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 7:05 PM
To: csgo_servers@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] Valve should create a place to report cheating 
servers, on website
I don't like to stoop to the low that I just did. I do believe that you have 
been around and have a lot of experience to offer, but did you really need to 
come in with the insults and belittling of others because you have a different 
opinion? You just made an honest, humble post, one that can be read and 
respected. Why couldn't it have been that from the start? You just came in 
attacking others because you disagreed with them, then someone calls you out 
with perfectly valid information, and you immediately get humble. Your initial 
posts could have been simply giving your experience, like your post above. 
Instead you had to insult people for no reason, when no insults were made 
towards you or towards anyone else that justified you doing so. 
Not that you need justification for anything but courtesy and objectivity go a 
long way. Because things used to be one way doesn't mean they are now. Because 
something worked for one person or a group of people, doesn't mean it's going 
to work for everyone. Everyone can be proud of their communities no matter how 
they support them. If you can manage to fully support it out of pocket, great. 
If you can get donations, even better, you're obviously doing something right. 
But there are plenty of servers for people to choose from these days. It 
doesn't matter if servers run ads or not, that's the way of the world. Players 
should be smart enough to use and support the good quality servers, and 
blacklist the shitty ones that spam ads, have wild admins, or whatever else 
might make a particular server shitty. Otherwise, there's no one to blame but 
the players for making poor choices. 
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote:
You’re looking at outdated data. As communities as a whole moved into an 
entirely different direction, community websites don’t really matter anymore. 
Most communications go through alternative platforms nowadays – such as 
discord. If you looked a bit further you also see that registration 
possibilities are closed, as it merely functions as an archive.
I can proudly let you know however, that this summer, we’ll have our 11th 
annual game community meet up. Something we’ve done yearly and we’ll keep doing 
so. Our community lives on, I have no worries about that – it just isn’t in the 
ways it used to (with an up2date website for example).
Also if you really want to know, the donations counter is broken – you’ll need 
to refresh your page before it loads.
Feel free to think whatever you like. I am just talking from experience. I’ve 
been around since the launch of HL1, and have a long history on this list 
(before spa – dumbclan). Dig into the HLDS (linux) archives and be amazed.
Also I think I am still listed as top donor on sourcemod after all these years. 
A simple “10% of our income in donations goes to projects we use to support 
them”. See how this world (used?) to work?
I am not saying you have to listen, I am just pointing things out and voicing 
my opinion. If you don’t like that, fine with me, I won’t sleep any less over 
Saint K.
From: Csgo_servers [mailto:csgo_servers-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On 
Behalf Of Andrew Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:23 PM
To: csgo_servers@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] Valve should create a place to report cheating 
servers, on website
Saint K is so adorable. Very strong, hard coded opinions about how community 
servers should be run based on his 18 years of real life community operating 
experience. If communities aren't run how he thinks they should, they should 
die a painful death, their owners probably should too huh?
Let's take a look at Saint K's well maintained community that survives on 
donations and nothing more. Head on over to specialattack.net. There you can 
see their donation counter in the top left corner, which SHOCKINGLY reads $0 of 
$160 needed and here we are halfway through the month! Can you believe it? I 
can't. It absolutely has to be an error because his highly developed website 
(circa 1999) and the non-existing TF2 & CSGO game servers that he is running 
during peak hours in Europe definitely must draw more than enough happy 
supporters that are willing to donate their hard earned money to his obviously 
well maintained community, as opposed to spending their money on other games, 
skins, or things that help them ensure their thirst for instant gratification 
is quenched. 
And here Saint K is, no online CS:GO servers or anything, kind enough to come 
to the CSGO servers mailing list and fill us all in on how communities should 
be operated. His 2 CSGO servers ( 
https://hlstatsx.specialattack.net/hlstats.php?game=csgo ) are booming with 
popularity (they aren't. they're not even online xD) and he is sparing his 
precious time to help us by belittling our efforts and throwing off personal 
Let's take a look at his TF2 servers. It APPEARS that he has a pretty good 
amount and that at least 1 is popular ( 
https://hlstatsx.specialattack.net/hlstats.php?game=tf ). WRONG. Here is that 
same stats page + player counts next to the Steam Server browser where I added 
all his servers to my favorites. Kind funny how only 1 of them is even online, 
it's Garry's Mod, and it's empty, that is really weird: http://imgur.com/BoaCUh6
And lastly, here is his 1 single server that shows up in game tracker (I tried 
every combination of special attack names to make sure this was accurate): 
So tell us more bullshit Saint K, you slimey weasel. All you ever do is show up 
here, acting holier than thou, thinking you are something special. Spoiler 
alert: you're not. You don't even peak anyone's radar until you come flapping 
your gums. Your non existent servers are empty. Your forums are dead. Donations 
don't exist outside of you donating for appearances. Get over yourself, fuckin 
UPDATE: Just as I was finished writing this, he had a 19 dollar donation show 
up on his counter. That is fucking hilarious. Saint, are you sending the lunch 
money your mom gave you to your donations so it looks like someone cares? Lol =D
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Absurd Minds <goabs...@absurdminds.net> wrote:
Location is a huge factor. I can tell by your website you're based in Europe 
(but I couldn't find your csgo servers?), which has a much different cago 
community than America. There's a much greater emphasis on competitive play in 
Europe and vanilla servers are more accepted, whereas in America things are a 
lot more casual. It's very difficult to get donations in America if you're not 
providing something like skin plugins, and nobody cares enough about any 
community to purchase a reserved slot. That's why almost all American servers 
run ads or are simply paid out of pocket by the owner. Things that work in one 
market don't always work in other markets, and it's a huge mistake to 
generalize as if they do. 
On Jun 14, 2017 11:23 AM, "Saint K." <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote:
I've been running gaming communities since 1999. 
That money grabbing attitude is something from the last 5-10 years. 
Donations never have been an issue for any of the communities I've dealt with. 
A simple reserved-slot reward is what users receive on donating. It's simple 
economics - create something people *want* and you shall have no problem 
surviving. If you create half-assed shit whining about not being able to make 
money, your servers deserve to die a painful death.
I already mentioned VALVe has no interest in us anymore. They've achieved their 
wealth. People hosting gamingcommunities are none of their interest anymore.
Complaining about any of these situations is not going to help. It hasn't for 
the past years, and it surely won't help now. They simply don't give a flying 
Saint K.

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