I do have to concur with Saint K. we moved to discord and pretty much all
income is gone. Always did pay for the servers, even with income. During
that time i had to pay 'less' but i don't mind because it is for the
community.

Items that where broken took sometimes years, if fixed at all. The whole
reason why servers died is because of restrictions by valve trying to fight
the 'bad guys' but it only hurt the good guys. This is a struggle that will
never be won by 'us' the owners, it is won by the 'bad people' because they
adopt more quicker then valve can fix/change things.

This is just a know fact, nothing more, nothing less. Like most people
including me, we just play another game and be happy too. Have a regular
bunch of friends online and still call it a community.

2017-06-14 19:19 GMT+02:00 Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net>:

> I don’t feel I was attacking that much, perhaps a bit sharply worded.
>
>
>
> My point, which doesn’t seem to have come across entirely, from my first
> post on was; The battle is pointless. The concerns people raise here with
> banning the servers, them reappearing, apparent money loss – We’ve fought
> that battle. A long time ago, for a very long duration. We simply lost.
> VALVe doesn’t care like they used too.
>
>
>
> Accept the situation for what it is and try to work with it. Asking VALVe
> to do something about it simply isn’t going to fly, unfortunately. And I
> say this with pain in my heart, because we used to have a lovely well
> working – be it in an online way – relation with VALVe in the past.
>
>
>
> Saint K.
>
>
>
> *From:* Csgo_servers [mailto:csgo_servers-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Andrew Jackson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 14, 2017 7:05 PM
> *To:* csgo_servers@list.valvesoftware.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Csgo_servers] Valve should create a place to report
> cheating servers, on website
>
>
>
> I don't like to stoop to the low that I just did. I do believe that you
> have been around and have a lot of experience to offer, but did you really
> need to come in with the insults and belittling of others because you have
> a different opinion? You just made an honest, humble post, one that can be
> read and respected. Why couldn't it have been that from the start? You just
> came in attacking others because you disagreed with them, then someone
> calls you out with perfectly valid information, and you immediately get
> humble. Your initial posts could have been simply giving your experience,
> like your post above. Instead you had to insult people for no reason, when
> no insults were made towards you or towards anyone else that justified you
> doing so.
>
>
>
> Not that you need justification for anything but courtesy and objectivity
> go a long way. Because things used to be one way doesn't mean they are now.
> Because something worked for one person or a group of people, doesn't mean
> it's going to work for everyone. Everyone can be proud of their communities
> no matter how they support them. If you can manage to fully support it out
> of pocket, great. If you can get donations, even better, you're obviously
> doing something right. But there are plenty of servers for people to choose
> from these days. It doesn't matter if servers run ads or not, that's the
> way of the world. Players should be smart enough to use and support the
> good quality servers, and blacklist the shitty ones that spam ads, have
> wild admins, or whatever else might make a particular server shitty.
> Otherwise, there's no one to blame but the players for making poor choices.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net>
> wrote:
>
> You’re looking at outdated data. As communities as a whole moved into an
> entirely different direction, community websites don’t really matter
> anymore. Most communications go through alternative platforms nowadays –
> such as discord. If you looked a bit further you also see that registration
> possibilities are closed, as it merely functions as an archive.
>
> I can proudly let you know however, that this summer, we’ll have our 11th
> annual game community meet up. Something we’ve done yearly and we’ll keep
> doing so. Our community lives on, I have no worries about that – it just
> isn’t in the ways it used to (with an up2date website for example).
>
>
>
> Also if you really want to know, the donations counter is broken – you’ll
> need to refresh your page before it loads.
>
>
>
> Feel free to think whatever you like. I am just talking from experience.
> I’ve been around since the launch of HL1, and have a long history on this
> list (before spa – dumbclan). Dig into the HLDS (linux) archives and be
> amazed.
>
>
>
> Also I think I am still listed as top donor on sourcemod after all these
> years. A simple “10% of our income in donations goes to projects we use to
> support them”. See how this world (used?) to work?
>
>
>
> I am not saying you have to listen, I am just pointing things out and
> voicing my opinion. If you don’t like that, fine with me, I won’t sleep any
> less over it.
>
>
>
> Saint K.
>
>
>
> *From:* Csgo_servers [mailto:csgo_servers-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> <csgo_servers-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com>] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
> Jackson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:23 PM
> *To:* csgo_servers@list.valvesoftware.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Csgo_servers] Valve should create a place to report
> cheating servers, on website
>
>
>
> Saint K is so adorable. Very strong, hard coded opinions about how
> community servers should be run based on his 18 years of real life
> community operating experience. If communities aren't run how he thinks
> they should, they should die a painful death, their owners probably should
> too huh?
>
>
>
> Let's take a look at Saint K's well maintained community that survives on
> donations and nothing more. Head on over to specialattack.net. There you
> can see their donation counter in the top left corner, which SHOCKINGLY
> reads $0 of $160 needed and here we are halfway through the month! Can you
> believe it? I can't. It absolutely has to be an error because his highly
> developed website (circa 1999) and the non-existing TF2 & CSGO game servers
> that he is running during peak hours in Europe definitely must draw more
> than enough happy supporters that are willing to donate their hard earned
> money to his obviously well maintained community, as opposed to spending
> their money on other games, skins, or things that help them ensure their
> thirst for instant gratification is quenched.
>
>
>
> And here Saint K is, no online CS:GO servers or anything, kind enough to
> come to the CSGO servers mailing list and fill us all in on how communities
> should be operated. His 2 CSGO servers ( https://hlstatsx.
> specialattack.net/hlstats.php?game=csgo ) are booming with popularity
> (they aren't. they're not even online xD) and he is sparing his precious
> time to help us by belittling our efforts and throwing off personal
> insults.
>
>
>
> Let's take a look at his TF2 servers. It APPEARS that he has a pretty good
> amount and that at least 1 is popular ( https://hlstatsx.
> specialattack.net/hlstats.php?game=tf ). WRONG. Here is that same stats
> page + player counts next to the Steam Server browser where I added all his
> servers to my favorites. Kind funny how only 1 of them is even online, it's
> Garry's Mod, and it's empty, that is really weird: http://imgur.com/
> BoaCUh6
>
>
>
> And lastly, here is his 1 single server that shows up in game tracker (I
> tried every combination of special attack names to make sure this was
> accurate): http://www.gametracker.com/search/?query=
> specialattack&sort=2&order=ASC
>
>
>
> So tell us more bullshit Saint K, you slimey weasel. All you ever do is
> show up here, acting holier than thou, thinking you are something special.
> Spoiler alert: you're not. You don't even peak anyone's radar until you
> come flapping your gums. Your non existent servers are empty. Your forums
> are dead. Donations don't exist outside of you donating for appearances.
> Get over yourself, fuckin twat.
>
>
>
> UPDATE: Just as I was finished writing this, he had a 19 dollar donation
> show up on his counter. That is fucking hilarious. Saint, are you sending
> the lunch money your mom gave you to your donations so it looks like
> someone cares? Lol =D
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Absurd Minds <goabs...@absurdminds.net>
> wrote:
>
> Location is a huge factor. I can tell by your website you're based in
> Europe (but I couldn't find your csgo servers?), which has a much different
> cago community than America. There's a much greater emphasis on competitive
> play in Europe and vanilla servers are more accepted, whereas in America
> things are a lot more casual. It's very difficult to get donations in
> America if you're not providing something like skin plugins, and nobody
> cares enough about any community to purchase a reserved slot. That's why
> almost all American servers run ads or are simply paid out of pocket by the
> owner. Things that work in one market don't always work in other markets,
> and it's a huge mistake to generalize as if they do.
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2017 11:23 AM, "Saint K." <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote:
>
> I've been running gaming communities since 1999.
>
>
>
> That money grabbing attitude is something from the last 5-10 years.
>
>
>
> Donations never have been an issue for any of the communities I've dealt
> with. A simple reserved-slot reward is what users receive on donating. It's
> simple economics - create something people *want* and you shall have no
> problem surviving. If you create half-assed shit whining about not being
> able to make money, your servers deserve to die a painful death.
>
>
>
> I already mentioned VALVe has no interest in us anymore. They've achieved
> their wealth. People hosting gamingcommunities are none of their interest
> anymore.
>
>
>
> Complaining about any of these situations is not going to help. It hasn't
> for the past years, and it surely won't help now. They simply don't give a
> flying fuck.
>
>
>
> Saint K.
>
>
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>
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>
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