v3.1 (non-binding) Link to the designs in the issue for anyone that needs it: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?focusedCommentId=17770969&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-177709
On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 5:05 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote: > > Hi all, > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so! > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I > think we should drop that version from the vote. > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie: > > - V9.2: 2 votes > - V3.1: 2 votes > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again. > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!* > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a > result. > > > Kind regards, > Oscar > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <emma.a.kel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a > > finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist > > (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake! > > The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1 > > Apologies for the confusion! > > > > All the best, > > Emma > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <ni...@basjes.nl> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the > > > line around it) has my preference. > > > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome. > > > > > > Niels > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <r...@skraba.com> wrote: > > > > > > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your > > > > thought processes and arguments for the design. I think we're pretty > > > > lucky to have this insight! My apologies for the delay, I just got > > > > back from a vacation following the conference :D > > > > > > > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the > > > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the > > > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT > > > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make > > > > our own decision! > > > > > > > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to > > > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards. Paper airplanes > > > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data). > > > > > > > > I maintain my v9.2 vote! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Great work on these, Emma. My preference is for V3.2. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <emma.a.kel...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here < > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually > > capture > > > > the > > > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design. > > > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the > > plane > > > > logo > > > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that > > the > > > > blobby > > > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to > > > > this new > > > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to > > what > > > > the > > > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't > > > add > > > > any > > > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract > > > > representation > > > > > > of the plane icon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2 > > > > design > > > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work, > > > > because > > > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the > > > > underside of > > > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle. > > > > > > > > > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was > > valid > > > > and > > > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle > > > design. > > > > When > > > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was > > > better > > > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that > > it > > > > was > > > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about > > > > design > > > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique > > > > opinions > > > > > > on what looks better. > > > > > > > > > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the > > > > *Avro > > > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing > > > > subjective > > > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community > > > Over > > > > Code > > > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking > > away > > > > from > > > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just > > like > > > to > > > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final > > > vote, > > > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will > > ultimately > > > > be > > > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not > > > the > > > > > > marketing and publicity office. > > > > > > > > > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions > > of > > > > the > > > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will > > be > > > > V9.2 > > > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be > > uploading > > > > some > > > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is > > > > chosen) > > > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but > > otherwise, > > > > the > > > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all > > > your > > > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process! > > > > > > > > > > > > All my best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great work again! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons > > > for > > > > > > logos > > > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to > > > > convey the > > > > > > > > desired image > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of > > > > sense to > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the > > underside: > > > > this > > > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like > > > as > > > > a > > > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper > > > > plane > > > > > > are > > > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon > > > > might > > > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers > > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > Fokko > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - > > Kind < > > > > > > > opw...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better > > than > > > > V11.2, > > > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the > > > > angle of > > > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look > > incomplete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <emma.a.kel...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and > > vote! > > > I > > > > > > wanted > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally > > influenced > > > > the > > > > > > > > initial > > > > > > > > > vote in any way! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the > > > suggestions > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's > > > > suggestion > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties > > into > > > > the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and > > publicity > > > > > > office. > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the > > > > upward > > > > > > > > design > > > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think > > > that's > > > > > > valid > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use > > > the > > > > > > 11.2 > > > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight > > > > > > > adjustments > > > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a > > > > little > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did > > > not > > > > > > beat > > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of > > > > voting, and > > > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that > > the > > > > > > > community > > > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono > > font > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only > > serifed > > > > > > letter. > > > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! > > I > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried > > > > when I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked > > > the > > > > PT > > > > > > > Mono > > > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in > > > hindsight > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final > > > icon > > > > is > > > > > > > > chosen > > > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft > > up a > > > > few > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if > > > > one of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing > > and > > > > > > > publicity > > > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I > > have > > > > to > > > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark > > > > blue in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic > > design, > > > > icons > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible > > design > > > > to > > > > > > > convey > > > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's > > > logo, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit > > that > > > if > > > > > > Apple > > > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as > > > effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to > > the > > > > fonts > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to > > > see > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All my best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - > > > Kind < > > > > > > > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 > > > > hours), > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the votes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - V9.2: 3 votes > > > > > > > > > > - V10.2: 1 vote > > > > > > > > > > - V11.2: 0 votes > > > > > > > > > > - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the > > V3.1 > > > > > > variant > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > part of the vote) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between > > V9.2 > > > > and > > > > > > > V3.1. > > > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than > > > > enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a > > > > good > > > > > > > > version > > > > > > > > > > flying > > > > > > > > > > slightly upward > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her > > good > > > > > > > judgement > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon > > > V3.1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <r...@skraba.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, > > but > > > > I had > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office > > > > hours > > > > > > > during > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty > > > specific > > > > > > > > > suggestions > > > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I > > > just > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > capture them here! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down! > > > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the > > r > > > > has > > > > > > > serifs > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > the others don't. > > > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the > > > word > > > > Avro > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice > > > > things > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > initiative! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any > > > > adjustments > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current > > > > logos > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > leaving > > > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <b...@tabular.io> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe > > - > > > > Kind < > > > > > > > > > > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It > > > looks > > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so > > it > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > conflated > > > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opw...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba < > > > > r...@skraba.com > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go > > > with > > > > > > V9.2 > > > > > > > > -- I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper > > > plane > > > > > > fits > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling > > > the > > > > > > vote. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía < > > > > > > > ieme...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject > > > > and it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma > > and > > > > > > > everyone! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong < > > > > > > > > > > fo...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > conversation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the > > > > > > sideline. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > > > envelope! > > > > > > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative > > > > version > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra > > > van > > > > > > > Holthe - > > > > > > > > > > Kind > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress > > on > > > > our > > > > > > > search > > > > > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logo ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 < > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554 > > > > > > > > > > >). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, > > > we > > > > can > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > proceed > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if > > the > > > > image > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > unreadable, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are > > > > > > > announced): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts > > > longer > > > > > > than a > > > > > > > > > > typical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - the vote lasts 2 weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - to avoid confusion, please vote with the > > > > V... > > > > > > > > > > ifentifier: > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V11.2, V3.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - the winner is the logo with at least two > > > (2) > > > > > > votes > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runner-up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote > > by > > > > > > simple > > > > > > > > > > majority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > top picks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind < > > > > opw...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue > > > > > > > > > > > > Tabular > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind < > > os...@westravanholthe.nl> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > David M. Carr > > > > > da...@carrclan.us > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten, > > > > > > Niels Basjes > > > > > > > > -- > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
