On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 21:38 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote: > On 03/12/2007, at 9:22 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 20:56 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote: > >> On 03/12/2007, at 7:58 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: > >> SNIP! > >> > >> Agreed, but in these levels the computers are not used just for > >> computer science, but also maths, spelling, art etc. This means that > >> you have to have a solution to address the bigger area. > > > > Yes, in schools nearly all teach general IT courses to all the > > students > > at some point so that is the place to reach the biggest market - > > English > > or maths would do too but the teachers are likely to give office > > software less of a priority in those subjects. > > Right, but IT is rather specific areas of application, some years may > not even cover office applications.
You only need one that does - that will hit everyone and after that it's use in any case. But then I think the argument is stronger to go for open systems and open standards rather than particular apps. OOo will get taken up as a natural consequence of that in any case. > If we look at solutions based > around a range of FLOSS software, I think that we cover a much wider > audience than just the IT courses. I agree with range of apps, but try going into schools and see the none IT teachers glaze over when you talk about issues like open standards. You have to hit the people likely to influence them first and to an extent that is the students. > There is software out there for > all courses and this takes away the influence of what particular > platform is required. > > >> Of course this is true, but unfortunately they don't decide what > >> software the university uses or teaches. > > > > Doesn't really matter if they personally use OOo - and if 90% of > > students were doing that it's likely to affect the university decision > > making. Its going to be very hard to get a whole university to > > switch to > > OOo from the top down. Quite often departments can make individual > > procurement decisions so here at Birmingham the comp sci department > > use > > FOSS extensively but the rest of the uni doesn't. > > Obviously the universities of there are very different to the ones in > Australia. :) > Here you don't get a choice, no matter how many people want it, it is > the choice of the lecturer or faculty as to what you are taught and > what is utilised. Maybe after a few years of hearing "where is OOo?" > all the time, they might start thinking about looking into it, but > that is not what makes it happen. > > I agree that different departments can use different software, and > often the comp sci areas are more open to FOSS, but I have seen > universities that are totally Microsoft in the comp sci and accepting > of FOSS in the maths and science areas? So it is often the people in > charge who make the final decision, not the masses in this sense. Quite so, but FOSS is a grass roots phenomenon, those in charge won't change without a lot of obvious grass roots support because it's too risky so you need a combination of both factors. > >> If they are smart enough, > >> they can work within the confines e.g. OOo vs MS Office documents > >> etc, but if the university wants to teach MS Visual Basic, then no > >> matter how many Linux stations they use, they cannot convince the > >> university of its value. > > > > I think it's a lot easier to get 16 year olds in large numbers > > using OOo > > than to try and get Unis to change technologies such that it has the > > same effect on take up. > > I think it would be great to see it happen, but I think you are > swimming upstream. It is not that it is impossible, but it seems very > difficult to achieve. Well so far we have 55 paying schools in the UK and another 50 in the pipeline and 3 EU projects started or close to it. People are now cold calling us as the word of mouth gets round. I think the opposite is true from swimming upstream. Now we have full government accreditation, people are coming to us. It's taken 4 years of graft and planning and probably around 500k in investment. If it was easy, it would have been done by now. > I think getting them to know it exists is the easy part - they can > see this through Internet, promotions, conferences etc. Try going into schools and talking to teachers. You will find even people in technical departments that haven't heard of OOo - I came across such a person only on Friday. It's improving but still a long way from universal. > The hard part > is trying to get them to understand why it is beneficial for them to > use it, even if it requires a small amount of change. And that requires building those things into the mainstream curriculum and giving all a reason for studying it. QED. Ian -- New QCA Accredited IT Qualifications www.theINGOTs.org You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
