On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 09:05, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > Jason van Zyl wrote: > ... > > No one has every lobbied as hard as you to get someone thrown out of > > Apache in addition to carrying out a compaign to eradicate and > > existing solution to replace it with their own. > ... > > I have been the Chair of Avalon at the time this happened. > > I can assure you that the reasons why the Avalon PMC decided to throw > Peter Donald out of Avalon had nothing to do with Stephen, although the > bad relationship between the two was something that helped exacerbate > the situation. > > Note that this is not a tentative to defend Stephen of past or present > wrongdoings. I just want to say that the decision of the Avalon PMC, > that during the process was being monitored actively by board members, > took a completely independent decision that had nothing to do with > Stephen's actions.
I do not want to drag this out because it is unfair to Peter, but I saw the first actions which spawned the whole debaucle. In Peter's defense I probably would have done the exact same things he did given the circumstances. > My personal understanding, in extreme summary, is that Peter Donald > refused to actively collaborate with some other Avalon members. Right, _some_ other members. Why is that a big deal? It completely discounts the efforts that went into Phoenix and the fact that Peter collaborated very well with people like Paul Hammant and Peter Royal. I defend Peter because we are very simliliar. In the time of my heaviest involvement with Turbine I was the defacto natural lead and people out of simple respect and courtesy deferred to me simply because of the amount of work I did. The same thing is true of Phoenix and Peter. If people started diddling with code I worked on without any discussion I would get severely annoyed. Is this ideal, probably not. I do get riled and outright punchy sometimes and I've been taken to task by the board for doing and saying thing that I probably shouldn't have. But you know but that's life, and simply because we might have personal communications issues shouldn't discount the massive amounts of effort we have contributed. What happened to Peter was simply wrong. If Stephen was thrown out as well that at least would have been more fair in my eyes. I personally exact a certain amount of control because I feel in the grand scheme of things that's perfectly fair given the amount of work I do. The argument that I'm anti-community is simply crap. You're not going to find many other OSS developers who have contributed almost 100% of their efforts to the cause. I have consciously selected an employer where this is possible. I fundamentally care about users, I am less interested in quibbling developers who like to bandy their Apache-ness around to everyone in the world. > > I definitely intend to try and set an example of a project that is > > healthy and concerns itself with its own endeavors and remains out of > > the affairs of other projects. To let projects decide of their own > > accord what tools they wish to use. > > I believe that reuse is very important in OS, and that in Apache it's > good that projects collaborate rather than competing. But there is no > Apache rule whatsoever that I know of that makes it compulsory for > projects to use each other. Exactly. Cooperation does not always work and there is nothing wrong with competition. If groups come together to cooperate of their own volition that is of course a good thing. But for many reasons whether they be political, personal, practical, or otherwise this simply is not always possible. Users are not ignorant and they will suss out the crap and nonsense on their own. > So as much as I disagree with this notion, I > have to agree that the Maven PMC and project must be left free to do so > if they wish. +1 > One final note, speaking as myself, which I really can't resist. > > Stephen: stop breaking our balls, Maven doesn't want to collaborate with > you, get over it. I can only speak for myself. I do not wish to have anything to do with Stephen Mcconnell for moral reasons (for lack of a better word) but I don't force my opinions on others. Anyone else in Maven is free to work with Stephen Mcconnell in any capacity they wish. At any rate, thanks for your support and it's about time this thread died. I'll have more to say but I'll keep it on my blog and off the list. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
