Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 03:19, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 18:54, Stephen McConnell wrote:Thank you ..
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Steve, you are an oracle of sage advice.
I like to work in a team.+1
Just between you and I .. It's good to get positive feedback from time to time!
However, I would suggest that you look more closely at you own role and value to Apache rather than mine in terms of value contribution. You have in the past provided an important contribution to the Maven project and through this, a sense of what what it means to collaborate in the real sense of the word.
You don't know what that word means. No one has every lobbied as hard as
you to get someone thrown out of Apache in addition to carrying out a
compaign to eradicate and existing solution to replace it with their
own. You use the argument of community but your motives are entirely
suspect.
ROTFL! Really Jason - I'm just a regular guy.
I know that you agree with me with respect to our sentiments concerning the development of Apache, and general collaboration across respective Apache communities.
No we definitely don't have the same sentiment. I basically believe in mind your own damn business whereas you continually bludgeon everyone you can with the Avalon/Merlin bat. I don't wander on to mailing lists that I have nothing to do with and try to shove my endeavours down other people's throats. I'll name the specific instance of Cocoon in the recent past. If projects want to use Avalon they will.
I think you may be misunderstanding some fundamentals. Firstly, Avalon is a project with a scope dealing with component and service management. Part of the process of product evolution within Avalon is a progressive migration towards a single platform involving the elimination of divergent branches that existed before. The Avalon Merlin and Fortress work has gone a long way forward in resolving the earlier divisions through resolution and adoption of common semantics.
Please keep in mind that Merlin is not the end-game. Its is simply
a product step taken by the Avalon community towards the goal of a
single solution. In fact Merlin in and of itself is not important -
what is important is the set of common facilities established by
Avalon such as the meta framework, not to mention some of the
candidate areas including component repositories, composition
services, component activation management, etc.
Please keep in mind that the process of convergence does require an active participation across lots of different communities here in Apache with the express purpose of facilitating and supporting migration from legacy content to the modern Avalon suite of component management solutions. Presumably this is what you refer to above as "eradication"?
It's already started here with your short and sweet message that was something to the effect of: "I have something to add to the board report but it's not politically correct." Which I believe was a direct result of me telling you on JContainer list that I wasn't interested in Avalon.
Actually, no.
And I'm going to take a wild guess and say that your politically incorrect diatribe would be something to the effect of Maven not using Apache solutions i.e. if Maven is going to be container based then it should use Avalon/Merlin. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
The concerns I had that prompted that post were related to the nature of the maven-new technical discussions (i.e. content on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list clearly indicating that decisions are been taken elsewhere), combined with posts concerning the removal of maven-new from Apache in the context of the Plexus development under the closed Codehaus community. I mentioned the aspect of political incorrectness as I imagine this is a subject that the Maven PMC has (or will) consider.
I should point out that as someone who uses and contributes to the Maven project - I have found the entire maven-new iniative to be rather unilateral in nature and I am left to assume that the manipulation of Apache versus Codehaus is simply a mechanisms that enables a level of control that you would not have here within the Maven community.
As to the relationship between Maven and Avalon I happy to report that the Avalon team are developing a bunch of interesting tools that make the transition of development to deployment a seamless process. Natuarally the development of those tools is completely open and everyone is free to contribute.
At any rate, strictly out of a matter of principle I would never touch Avalon now simply because you are there: the way in which you interacted with Peter Donald was repugnant. Additionally the container landscape outside Apache is rife with equally if not better container solutions. You being in Avalon is also one of the reasons I considered leaving Apache entirely. But I am going to stick it out here while at the same time drawing attention to what I think is wrong at Apache and I think you're one of those things that is wrong.
Wow! I wasn't aware of the prejudice that you hold against me personally. I'm confident you will be able to work though this and equally confident that you will try and to keep you personal prejudice out of the public arena.
While we probably have differences of opinions concerning PMC due-diligence and aspect relating to ownership and control - I remain confident that you have the potential to set an example for other project here in Apache to follow.
I definitely intend to try and set an example of a project that is
healthy and concerns itself with its own endeavours and remains out of
the affairs of other projects. To let projects decide of their own
accord what tools they wish to use.
Its an interesting position. It has all of the hallmarks of doing the right thing. Should I look forward to seeing a more open process of development and communication as a consequence of you new objective?
Stephen.
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Stephen J. McConnell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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