> The logic here is flawed because it is from a single 
> perspective of an  
> individual who finds it burdensome to validate each and every release.

It isn't just me. Both Paul and Brett expressed similar concerns ;-).

To keep this short, I simply disagree with Jason's assertion that a fix
should be synonymous with a release. We could go on ad-nauseam but I
think we both have more important things to do ;-). If I ever get more
involved with Maven development (which I have really wanted to do, but
corporate policies get in the way) I may bring it up again. But until
then I will just bite my tongue as I realize my opinion carries very
littie weight ;-).

> 
> The value of releasing everyday if there is a fix is because 
> that fix  
> may be very valuable to a user.
> 
> I pushed extremely aggressively against Benjamin and Igor to put in  
> place the regression test suite and performance framework so that we  
> don't have to fear validation for the most part. I'm 
> confident at this  
> point that we're going to find the problems before any of you do 95%  
> of the time. This is how it should be. When we have a fix it 
> should be  
> made immediately available in a consumable form by the 
> general public  
> because it probably matters to someone. We are at this point  
> responding to people taking the time to accurate report 
> errors. If you  
> watch the process that happens it usually a matter of hours before  
> Benjamin fixes it.
> 
> The release process here is entirely broken from a users 
> perspective,  
> but that's the Apache Way. Here people think developers are more  
> important then users which is why we have the contorted set of  
> practices we have here now. The work needs to be instantly validated  
> and we can do that now, and once that criterion is met it should be  
> released. This is not the case with many of our plugins which 
> can have  
> a dire impact on users because the tests for critical plugins that  
> just haven't gotten the attention they need yet. I plan to help try  
> and fix this as well but there's only so much that can be done at a  
> time.
> 
> These are alphas and getting them out as soon as the rules 
> allow here  
> is important for people trying to evaluate 3.x.
> 
> > ---
> > Todd Thiessen
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected]
> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Benedict
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:21 PM
> >> To: Maven Developers List
> >> Subject: Re: voting was: [VOTE] Release Apache Maven 3.0-alpha-5
> >>
> >> I would also like to contribute my frustration with the
> >> current build process. It's great the alpha releases are
> >> coming out often, but I cannot possibly be testing them at
> >> the frequency you guys are currently tagging and voting. I
> >> thought the "once a week" alpha was a good idea until it
> >> actually happened. If you guys voted once every three weeks,
> >> it would be much easier for me to participate. I wonder if
> >> others believe the same.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Jason van Zyl
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Let's not beat the dead horse. No one cares. There's not
> >> good reason
> >>> for not releasing something immediately if there are fixes
> >> available.
> >>> That's just not the way it works here, that's fine and not
> >> a big deal.
> >>>
> >>> On 2009-11-25, at 7:52 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 26/11/2009, at 6:24 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If ever we really needed to push out builds more
> >> frequently I would
> >>>>> just do it from Sonatype. I've given up trying to be
> >> truly agile at
> >>>>> Apache, it's just not going to happen.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand what the issue is with the current process.
> >>>> Benjamin is already getting them out faster than the majority of
> >>>> people will be able to test and review them. Any faster
> >> and you might
> >>>> as well just be using the CI builds for whatever purpose
> >> you have in
> >>>> mind. You're not going to be able to push out anything
> >> from Sonatype
> >>>> that's any more official than those, so what benefit does
> >> anyone get
> >>>> from a build that loses the frequency of CI builds and
> >> loses the benefit of being reviewed before publishing?
> >>>>
> >>>> The rules about not promoting snapshots to users are there
> >> for good
> >>>> reasons - to make sure the PMC does actually authorize
> >> releases and
> >>>> the users know what they are getting, and to encourage
> >> actually doing
> >>>> releases (instead of everyone running their own version of
> >> trunk). I
> >>>> don't see any upside to a change that loses those. There's
> >> no problem
> >>>> pointing individuals to the grid for *testing* purposes as
> >> far as I
> >>>> know, as long as they know what they are getting is not a
> >> release and may not work at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Brett
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For
> >>>> additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Jason
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Jason van Zyl
> >>> Founder,  Apache Maven
> >>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For
> >>> additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For
> >> additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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> 
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